2013 San Francisco Giants Thread

Originally posted by Niners99:
Of course Sabean played a role, he put the team together. But he also had 130 mil. to work with, and a borderline HOF manager running the show. Like I said, Sabean DOES deserve credit, I just dont think he deserves the kind of credit hes being given by some people.

We won twice in 3 years. You cant argue with that, but when people say he played a major role in actually winning the rings, I have to disagree. He put the team in a good position to win with the budget he was given, and the team/coaching staff won the title.

Good job for putting a good team together Sabean, but after that, the team won the games. And lets not forget the ball bounced our way plenty. Otherwise another GM wouldve been getting a bunch of credit right now. As a GM with plenty of money to work with, you field the best team you can, and try to make the correct adjustments mid season. Then you sit back and hope for the best, and the team found a way to win. He did the best he could, and it worked out, but lets just not give him credit as if he took a small market payroll and made it happen.

So by your logic you could apply what your saying to all the GMs in the league?
Not just Sabean. Right?

Small market or not, we aren't the yankees. The core of the team is drafted or signed from south america and developed through the system. That credit goes to the GM and our Scouting staff. Home grown talent. That's the main job of a GM - and then you fill the holes on your team when and where you can with FA/Trades and Brian Sabean has done that and then some. He has assembled a team that is built to win now and in the future.

He hired the manager.
Don't forget that. If it wasn't for him, Boch wouldn't be here.

What else do you want from him? You want the ownership to cut the payroll to 50 million and say? Now show me your a good GM? I don't get it.

Originally posted by Garcia:

Originally posted by Niners99:
Of course Sabean played a role, he put the team together. But he also had 130 mil. to work with, and a borderline HOF manager running the show. Like I said, Sabean DOES deserve credit, I just dont think he deserves the kind of credit hes being given by some people.

We won twice in 3 years. You cant argue with that, but when people say he played a major role in actually winning the rings, I have to disagree. He put the team in a good position to win with the budget he was given, and the team/coaching staff won the title.

Good job for putting a good team together Sabean, but after that, the team won the games. And lets not forget the ball bounced our way plenty. Otherwise another GM wouldve been getting a bunch of credit right now. As a GM with plenty of money to work with, you field the best team you can, and try to make the correct adjustments mid season. Then you sit back and hope for the best, and the team found a way to win. He did the best he could, and it worked out, but lets just not give him credit as if he took a small market payroll and made it happen.

So by your logic you could apply what your saying to all the GMs in the league?
Not just Sabean. Right?

Small market or not, we aren't the yankees. The core of the team is drafted or signed from south america and developed through the system. That credit goes to the GM and our Scouting staff. Home grown talent. That's the main job of a GM - and then you fill the holes on your team when and where you can with FA/Trades and Brian Sabean has done that and then some. He has assembled a team that is built to win now and in the future.

He hired the manager.
Don't forget that. If it wasn't for him, Boch wouldn't be here.

What else do you want from him? You want the ownership to cut the payroll to 50 million and say? Now show me your a good GM? I don't get it.

Youre looking way too into it. Its not that complicated. Sabean put the team in a good spot to win. Thats the credit he deserves. Thats the credit most GM's deserve. When guys like Andrew Friedman take a team from a bottom feeder to a contender in a dominant division with a small payroll, they get more credit than the GM's who have room for error, like Brian Cashman.

Brian Sabean put together a good team, and made some good moves throughout the season. We ended up winning the WS. Thumbs up to Sabean, he made it happen. He traded for Scutaro, but after that point things happened that made the move look very smart. If Scutaro had continued on like the way he was playing with COL this season, the move wouldve looked expectedly minor. Sabean getting extra credit for the way Scutaro was able to play doesnt seem appropriate, considering it was so surprisingly unexpected.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by jrg:
Emmanuel Burriss Opts For Free Agency

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/emmanuel-burriss-opts-for-free-agency.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Dont let the door hit you on the way out Burriss...

Burriss >>> Sanchez

lol so? Theyre both useless.

Sanchez is far from useless when he's on the field.

Originally posted by SFrush:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by jrg:
Emmanuel Burriss Opts For Free Agency

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/emmanuel-burriss-opts-for-free-agency.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Dont let the door hit you on the way out Burriss...

Burriss >>> Sanchez

lol so? Theyre both useless.

Sanchez is far from useless when he's on the field.

yeah 25 games a year

Originally posted by Niners99:

Youre looking way too into it. Its not that complicated. Sabean put the team in a good spot to win. Thats the credit he deserves. Thats the credit most GM's deserve. When guys like Andrew Friedman take a team from a bottom feeder to a contender in a dominant division with a small payroll, they get more credit than the GM's who have room for error, like Brian Cashman.

Brian Sabean put together a good team, and made some good moves throughout the season. We ended up winning the WS. Thumbs up to Sabean, he made it happen. He traded for Scutaro, but after that point things happened that made the move look very smart. If Scutaro had continued on like the way he was playing with COL this season, the move wouldve looked expectedly minor. Sabean getting extra credit for the way Scutaro was able to play doesnt seem appropriate, considering it was so surprisingly unexpected.

I think you are trying to hard here bro. The SF Giants had never won a World Series and he put together a team (s) that won 2 out of 3. He gets credit, no matter where it happened.

Originally posted by Rubberneck36:

Originally posted by Niners99:
Youre looking way too into it. Its not that complicated. Sabean put the team in a good spot to win. Thats the credit he deserves. Thats the credit most GM's deserve. When guys like Andrew Friedman take a team from a bottom feeder to a contender in a dominant division with a small payroll, they get more credit than the GM's who have room for error, like Brian Cashman.

Brian Sabean put together a good team, and made some good moves throughout the season. We ended up winning the WS. Thumbs up to Sabean, he made it happen. He traded for Scutaro, but after that point things happened that made the move look very smart. If Scutaro had continued on like the way he was playing with COL this season, the move wouldve looked expectedly minor. Sabean getting extra credit for the way Scutaro was able to play doesnt seem appropriate, considering it was so surprisingly unexpected.

I think you are trying to hard here bro. The SF Giants had never won a World Series and he put together a team (s) that won 2 out of 3. He gets credit, no matter where it happened.

I agree. And.. this is coming from Rubber and me who have been very critical of Sabean in ths past. Sure, there were fortunate things that happened. Sure, Scutaro's performance was a surprise. BUT, if Sabean doesnt pull the trigger on him on a great trade the Giants dont win it. II dont think Sabean is a baseball genius by any stretch but he has to get a lot of credit.

Originally posted by Rubberneck36:

Originally posted by Niners99:
Youre looking way too into it. Its not that complicated. Sabean put the team in a good spot to win. Thats the credit he deserves. Thats the credit most GM's deserve. When guys like Andrew Friedman take a team from a bottom feeder to a contender in a dominant division with a small payroll, they get more credit than the GM's who have room for error, like Brian Cashman.

Brian Sabean put together a good team, and made some good moves throughout the season. We ended up winning the WS. Thumbs up to Sabean, he made it happen. He traded for Scutaro, but after that point things happened that made the move look very smart. If Scutaro had continued on like the way he was playing with COL this season, the move wouldve looked expectedly minor. Sabean getting extra credit for the way Scutaro was able to play doesnt seem appropriate, considering it was so surprisingly unexpected.

I think you are trying to hard here bro. The SF Giants had never won a World Series and he put together a team (s) that won 2 out of 3. He gets credit, no matter where it happened.

People can and will always find a way to diminish (or not give full praise and credit for) someone's accomplishments that they have a personal bias against, especially if they've publicly criticized that person in the past. That would mean they were flat-out wrong and completely off-base in their critiques...and for some people, that would be damn near impossible to admit. So they parse or hedge, unwilling to just say, "hey, dude made all the right moves, those moves led to a ring and he deserves all the praise he gets, warranted or not. Victori spolia ire!"

I'm not sure how I feel about the Nick Swisher rumors....

My opinion of Brian Sabean prior to 2010: He has made questionable move after questionable move. He made more terrible trades than good ones. He signed more bad players to contracts that exceeded their value than good players to contracts that were less than their value. He wasted Barry Bonds' career by not putting enough pieces around him. He wasted 2 years of elite pitching by not putting enough good hitters around it. He doesnt have the slightest clue how to draft hitting prospects, which means he is an average talent evaluator when coupled with his ability to draft pitching prospects. He was as big of a problem as anything else with this team.

My opinion of Brian Sabean now: Everything I wrote above is completely moot after winning 2 World Series Championships in the last 3 years. While I may question some of his moves going forward, he has now earned the benefit of the doubt for the foreseeable future.

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
My opinion of Brian Sabean prior to 2010: He has made questionable move after questionable move. He made more terrible trades than good ones. He signed more bad players to contracts that exceeded their value than good players to contracts that were less than their value. He wasted Barry Bonds' career by not putting enough pieces around him. He wasted 2 years of elite pitching by not putting enough good hitters around it. He doesnt have the slightest clue how to draft hitting prospects, which means he is an average talent evaluator when coupled with his ability to draft pitching prospects. He was as big of a problem as anything else with this team.

My opinion of Brian Sabean now: Everything I wrote above is completely moot after winning 2 World Series Championships in the last 3 years. While I may question some of his moves going forward, he has now earned the benefit of the doubt for the foreseeable future.

I think that is pretty much the same for me. I think he was below average as a GM prior to 2010. Free agency was his biggest weakness for sure. Now, he DOES get a pass and he DID do a very good job in 2010 and 2012. He would get an A+++++ if not for the Wheeler deal. Now, he just gets an A. As for foreseeable future... well he gets a pass for 2013. I cant commit beyond that.

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
My opinion of Brian Sabean prior to 2010: He has made questionable move after questionable move. He made more terrible trades than good ones. He signed more bad players to contracts that exceeded their value than good players to contracts that were less than their value. He wasted Barry Bonds' career by not putting enough pieces around him. He wasted 2 years of elite pitching by not putting enough good hitters around it. He doesnt have the slightest clue how to draft hitting prospects, which means he is an average talent evaluator when coupled with his ability to draft pitching prospects. He was as big of a problem as anything else with this team.

My opinion of Brian Sabean now: Everything I wrote above is completely moot after winning 2 World Series Championships in the last 3 years. While I may question some of his moves going forward, he has now earned the benefit of the doubt for the foreseeable future.

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

My opinion of Brian Sabean prior to 2010: He has made questionable move after questionable move. He made more terrible trades than good ones. He signed more bad players to contracts that exceeded their value than good players to contracts that were less than their value. He wasted Barry Bonds' career by not putting enough pieces around him. He wasted 2 years of elite pitching by not putting enough good hitters around it. He doesnt have the slightest clue how to draft hitting prospects, which means he is an average talent evaluator when coupled with his ability to draft pitching prospects. He was as big of a problem as anything else with this team.

My opinion of Brian Sabean now: Everything I wrote above is completely moot after winning 2 World Series Championships in the last 3 years. While I may question some of his moves going forward, he has now earned the benefit of the doubt for the foreseeable future.

I agree with this. Pissed me off plenty of times but only once lately...I won't mention it.

He gets a pass now because he drafted the right pitchers and picked up the right guys to win the WS, twice.

Originally posted by Rubberneck36:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
My opinion of Brian Sabean prior to 2010: He has made questionable move after questionable move. He made more terrible trades than good ones. He signed more bad players to contracts that exceeded their value than good players to contracts that were less than their value. He wasted Barry Bonds' career by not putting enough pieces around him. He wasted 2 years of elite pitching by not putting enough good hitters around it. He doesnt have the slightest clue how to draft hitting prospects, which means he is an average talent evaluator when coupled with his ability to draft pitching prospects. He was as big of a problem as anything else with this team.

My opinion of Brian Sabean now: Everything I wrote above is completely moot after winning 2 World Series Championships in the last 3 years. While I may question some of his moves going forward, he has now earned the benefit of the doubt for the foreseeable future.

I agree with this. Pissed me off plenty of times but only once lately...I won't mention it.

He gets a pass now because he drafted the right pitchers and picked up the right guys to win the WS, twice.

Admit it, you didnt want Culberson to be traded.

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:
Admit it, you didnt want Culberson to be traded.

I will say he turned out to be quite a valuable prospect in a farm system earlier this season even though it's doubtful he will ever do squat at the MLB level.

Signed Affeldt to a 3/$18. Not terrible I guess, but still somewhat annoying for a 31 year old middle reliever.