The NBA's image problem

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Why do people always bring up fighting in NHL as if it was some kind of thuggish behavior?

People are such babies now days. There is nothing wrong with a good clean fight.

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Somewhere around 40% of NBA players have criminal records (according to that book). I'd say the # is around 25% or lower for the NFL.

That's a bunch of bulls**t statistics made up by a guy with an agenda to demonize the NBA.

Maybe so, but it's ridiculous to think that the NBA has a lower % of criminals than the NFL.

How so?

There are two books written on the subject, one for the NFL and one for the NBA (2004 i think). The numbers in those books found that 21% for NFL players and 40% for NBA. Why those numbers would be considered "biased" or backed by an agenda, I don't know. Regardless, it's a study and people can't just throw it out the window and say they don't believe it. What other data do we have other than our opinions?

If you DO want to go to opinion, then it doesn't take more than simple intuition to know that the NBA is filled with more "thugs" than the NFL. I could write an essay on the reasons why I believe that is so...

I saw this also and believe the data is correct. There were two books on two sports, not just one book bashing an individual sport. Crzy, I don't understand how you can accuse other people of having agendas when you obviously have the biggest agenda in this thread.

I don't agree with the last paragraph.

Oh, come on! Let's not act like the amount of thugs, or the percentage of thugs, is a significant difference. The NFL has so many thugs, I could sit here and list them all day. The NBA might have a higher percentage, but if the NFL had 15 players per team, the numbers would be similar. Hell, give the NBA kickers and punters, and their stats drop.

So let's stop acting like the NFL is some league where thugs are an anomaly, and it's the norm in the NBA. They both have thugs. They both have a significant amount. But one scares white people more because you can see their scary faces and tattoos.

It is... The more people you have the more chance that there is to have criminals. The fact that the NBA has less people and a higher percentage is very telling.

The percentages say that's untrue. If the percentages were the same that would be a valid argument. Take Kickers and Punters off teams. That's around 1446 players now instead of around 1500. The NBA still has around 600 (at most) players giving each team two more players. You're reaching for straws there. The percentage is almost double even though the NBA has almost a third of the players as the NFL.


I never said that. I never said the NFL didn't have a problem with thugs. That's a big assumption to think that I feel that way.

I don't like the NBA because the officiating is horrible/biased and a majority of the players I watch seem more interested in looking good (both physically and Ego-wise[for lack of a better phrase]) than winning.

You want to look at numbers not percentages? There are more players that have records in the NFL? The NFL also has more players without records than the NBA does. There are more players in the NFL without a criminal record than there are players in the entire NBA, according to those books. . So, according to your logic, the NFL is full of saints right?

I never said anything about looking at numbers instead of percentages. I just said that the percentages were likely insignificant. The kicker/punter thing was a joke.

I don't think you get my point. They're equally thuggish, but there's something else that makes you feel the NBA is worse. It isn't criminal records, because you don't know what their crimes are. You're just citing that data to try to prove your point.

Then, you mention personal appearance, which is my guess as to why the NBA is considered worse. On an NFL player, you can't see more than some shin, and a little forearm. So you just avoided, up until this point, why you really feel that way, and it's because of appearance.

Woah, Pants I think you really misunderstood me. I was backing up the books saying that the source looked credible. Somehow that turns into me using the evidence to support my opinion? What opinion? I never stated an opinion either way on whether or not I thought the NBA was thuggish.

I agree with you in the sense that the statistics can be misleading, especially if we don't know the exact crimes committed. Still, there is something to be said that 40% of your players have a record. I don't think it proves that the league is "thuggish", it just proves that a large percentage of NBA players have criminal records.

I also never said that player appearance is what turned me off from the NBA and I don't appreciate you twisting my words. I don't give a damn what they look like, I give a damn that they care so much about what they look like. My second reason isn't appearance, it's that the players seem more interested in their appearance than winning. I don't care what you wear, just go out and win. It seems as though the players are more concerned with their image than the game. I never said this wasn't a problem in the NFL either, again thanks for twisting my words. If you're spending time working on your celebrations and high-fives when you're a ten win team, I'm pissed as a fan. What the **** are you celebrating?! Try winning some damn games first.

My number one reason that I dislike the NBA is horrible/biased officiating. I enjoy watching good, fair competition. At least half of the games I watch are decided by the refs, one way or another. If the underdog is making a late comeback, the refs will help the favorite close it out with some foul calls. It's disgusting. Danny Crawford is still allowed to call Mavs and Spurs games even though he has a known bias against both teams. Star players get star calls, and when they don't they complain about not getting them. Star players act tough then complain like little girls when they get tapped on the elbow. That's what I don't like about the NBA.

There are also things I don't like about the NFL. I feel it's becoming more and more dangerous for players, I don't like that nobody is ever asking the steroid question, I don't like players celebrating after every single tackle, and I don't like it becoming more spectacle than sport. I also feel there are many players more concerned with their image than winning, but the officiating is decent enough and bad calls don't often decide games or go consistently one way. I feel that right now the NFL offers fair competition on a more consistent basis, but I don't like one league over another.

And for the record, I don't find either league thuggish. I can see why the general public, who only follow the big events, would. Vick goes to prison for running a dog-fighting ring and killing dogs, and Ben is accused and convicted in the court of public opinion of rape twice. Then there's Arenas bringing his gun to the Stadium and doing his little pistol dance in the team huddle with everybody laughing about it. I don't think the players are anywhere near thugs, if they were I doubt they would have made it to their respective leagues. Of course there will always be exceptions but the leagues definitely don't promote a "thug" vibe imo.

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by crzy:
I didn't want to play the race card, but the lack of white superstars in the NBA does play into it somewhat.

Oh, well since you played it now, I guess you've convinced everybody that you are correct. I can't believe nobody thought of this yet.

I'm not trying to act like that's the primary reason.

People have the right to be disillusioned with the NBA for whatever reason.

But you're being naive if you don't think that race plays a part in this discussion.

I agree with you to an extent. I believe race is involved but not in a malicious way. If there are no white stars, white people have nobody to relate to. Just like if there are no black stars, black people have nobody to relate to.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Why do people always bring up fighting in NHL as if it was some kind of thuggish behavior?

People are such babies now days. There is nothing wrong with a good clean fight.

Well I don't think fighting is thuggish behavior either.

The problem is fighting in the NBA is perceived as thuggish behavior by many people while it's accepted in the NHL.

[ Edited by crzy on May 2, 2010 at 22:59:07 ]

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by crzy:
I didn't want to play the race card, but the lack of white superstars in the NBA does play into it somewhat.

Oh, well since you played it now, I guess you've convinced everybody that you are correct. I can't believe nobody thought of this yet.

I'm not trying to act like that's the primary reason.

People have the right to be disillusioned with the NBA for whatever reason.

But you're being naive if you don't think that race plays a part in this discussion.

I agree with you to an extent. I believe race is involved but not in a malicious way. If there are no white stars, white people have nobody to relate to. Just like if there are no black stars, black people have nobody to relate to.

That's what Larry Bird said a few years ago

The NBA needs a white superstar.

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Why do people always bring up fighting in NHL as if it was some kind of thuggish behavior?

People are such babies now days. There is nothing wrong with a good clean fight.

Well I don't think fighting is thuggish behavior either.

The problem is fighting in the NBA is perceived as thuggish behavior by many people while it's accepted in the NHL.

Its a lot more physical so thats why. The same way people don't think its thuggish when football players fight.

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Why do people always bring up fighting in NHL as if it was some kind of thuggish behavior?

People are such babies now days. There is nothing wrong with a good clean fight.

Well I don't think fighting is thuggish behavior either.

The problem is fighting in the NBA is perceived as thuggish behavior by many people while it's accepted in the NHL.

Fighting is actually acceptable in the NHL, it always has been, its allowed. If you want to talk about fighting in sports I would say look at the old Univ of Mia, they were perceived as thugs. College players taking bounty bribes to hurt other players = THUGS.

You have to agree when players go into the stands (that fight a few years ago) and start fighting the crowd....that s**t is thuggish and made the NBA look real bad. I have no clue about the NBA commish but I can say Goodell rules the league pretty strictly.

Originally posted by NinerFanMT:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Why do people always bring up fighting in NHL as if it was some kind of thuggish behavior?

People are such babies now days. There is nothing wrong with a good clean fight.

Well I don't think fighting is thuggish behavior either.

The problem is fighting in the NBA is perceived as thuggish behavior by many people while it's accepted in the NHL.

Its a lot more physical so thats why. The same way people don't think its thuggish when football players fight.

Chicken or the egg, IMO

Basketball could be more physical if they didn't call fouls after every little contact that happens.

And why do they crack down on contact.....because they don't want the league devolving into a bunch of guys taking swings at each other

hip hop + basketball = thug?

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by NinerFanMT:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Why do people always bring up fighting in NHL as if it was some kind of thuggish behavior?

People are such babies now days. There is nothing wrong with a good clean fight.

Well I don't think fighting is thuggish behavior either.

The problem is fighting in the NBA is perceived as thuggish behavior by many people while it's accepted in the NHL.

Its a lot more physical so thats why. The same way people don't think its thuggish when football players fight.

Chicken or the egg, IMO

Basketball could be more physical if they didn't call fouls after every little contact that happens.

And why do they crack down on contact.....because they don't want the league devolving into a bunch of guys taking swings at each other

Or basically being "Thugs".

^Those numbers are up to the Gilbert Arenas incident of this past 2010 NBA season

Originally posted by GameOver:


^Those numbers are up to the Gilbert Arenas incident of this past 2010 NBA season

The solution is to send them to Europe.

-9fA

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by NinerFanMT:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Why do people always bring up fighting in NHL as if it was some kind of thuggish behavior?

People are such babies now days. There is nothing wrong with a good clean fight.

Well I don't think fighting is thuggish behavior either.

The problem is fighting in the NBA is perceived as thuggish behavior by many people while it's accepted in the NHL.

Its a lot more physical so thats why. The same way people don't think its thuggish when football players fight.

Chicken or the egg, IMO

Basketball could be more physical if they didn't call fouls after every little contact that happens.

And why do they crack down on contact.....because they don't want the league devolving into a bunch of guys taking swings at each other

Thats the one thing about basketball which annoys me. Way too many fouls called. Its lame when you get dudes who are huge like 6'11 act like a 4 year old and yelling FOUL when someone breathes on them.

Originally posted by GameOver:


^Those numbers are up to the Gilbert Arenas incident of this past 2010 NBA season

84 players represent about 20% of the league.

[ Edited by LA9erFan on May 3, 2010 at 07:24:28 ]

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by valrod33:
I just asked my wife this. "out of the 3 major sports, MLB, NBA and NFL which one does she think has the most "thugs" in it?" sh answered the NBA. and i asked her why she thought that and she said because all the tattoos.

That's an honest response.

I know even I'm biased against tattoos. I was annoyed when Monta went from this



to this





The fact that he was suddenly making $11 million per year, crashing mopeds, and saying he couldn't play with a rookie Stephen Curry were bigger factors.....but the tattoos annoyed me.

Her solution to the problem was to make the NBA players all wear sleeves to cover up the tattoos