Brian Robinson Jr RB Thread

Originally posted by Afrikan:
We were struggling to run the ball against the Seahawks. B-Rob comes in, runs for 6 yards on 1st down... then isn't really used much after.

Again I feel we should have BOTH B-Rob and CMC on the field at the same time at key moments.

What purpose did having both of them on the field serve against Seattle? The Seahawks were staying in their nickel/dime package regardless of what the 49ers did. There's no favorable matchup to be gained in the passing game or the running game by having them both on the field

Robinson is running so much better than CMC and Kyle refuses to use him. This is vintage Shanahan.

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
Robinson is running so much better than CMC and Kyle refuses to use him. This is vintage Shanahan.

Not only this but if it's 3rd and a passing situation and CMC is out of the game why is Guerrendo not in the game. Guerrendo could offer some of the same advantages out of the backfield as CMC albeit to a lesser extent.

Personnel usage is the one thing that I do have against Shanahan.

I have not understood all season why we don't have a package with both him and CMC on the field at the same time.

Originally posted by LB49ers:
I have not understood all season why we don't have a package with both him and CMC on the field at the same time.

I don't understand what purpose this serves. There's no personnel mismatch to be gained that Juice on the field doesn't already provide.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by LB49ers:
I have not understood all season why we don't have a package with both him and CMC on the field at the same time.

I don't understand what purpose this serves. There's no personnel mismatch to be gained that Juice on the field doesn't already provide.

last time I mentioned it, I wasn't talking i formation or anything.
it can be similar to when we both had Deebo and CMC in the backfield.

but like I mentioned before, motion out CMC and look for a miss match if not run Robinson up the middle or in the opposite direction. Or a screen to Robinson on the opposite side.

imo, get Robinson the opportunity to get some open space and create or break a tackle for big play...

Originally posted by Afrikan:
last time I mentioned it, I wasn't talking i formation or anything.
it can be similar to when we both had Deebo and CMC in the backfield.

but like I mentioned before, motion out CMC and look for a miss match if not run Robinson up the middle or in the opposite direction. Or a screen to Robinson on the opposite side.

imo, get Robinson the opportunity to get some open space and create or break a tackle for big play...

Okay, but what purpose does having 2 running backs on the field at once serve that 21 personnel with Juice doesn't? I still don't see where there's an advantage to be gained by having 2 running backs on the field that Juice+a RB doesn't provide. There's no personnel mismatch here because defenses are going to counter this the exact same way they play 21 personnel. CMC already gets a LB in coverage....with 2 RBs on the field, he continues to get a LB...???? It's a downgrade in run blocking because neither CMC or Robinson are going to block better than Juice. This seems like something fans think sounds good in theory without actually extrapolating the X's and O's aspect.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
last time I mentioned it, I wasn't talking i formation or anything.
it can be similar to when we both had Deebo and CMC in the backfield.

but like I mentioned before, motion out CMC and look for a miss match if not run Robinson up the middle or in the opposite direction. Or a screen to Robinson on the opposite side.

imo, get Robinson the opportunity to get some open space and create or break a tackle for big play...

Okay, but what purpose does having 2 running backs on the field at once serve that 21 personnel with Juice doesn't? I still don't see where there's an advantage to be gained by having 2 running backs on the field that Juice+a RB doesn't provide. There's no personnel mismatch here because defenses are going to counter this the exact same way they play 21 personnel. CMC already gets a LB in coverage....with 2 RBs on the field, he continues to get a LB...???? It's a downgrade in run blocking because neither CMC or Robinson are going to block better than Juice. This seems like something fans think sounds good in theory without actually extrapolating the X's and O's aspect.

Explain to me how juice is a mismatch?

The dude regularly gets tackled by 180 lb dbs even though he's 230.

You know why we always have these plays where he's for some reason wide open? Because other teams seem him out wide and half the time literally he doesn't get covered at all... Because why would you cover a slow 230 lb fb who can't break tackles or grind out tough yards on fourth and short.

Juice is part of the problem. Sub juice in for literally any other player and your getting something instead of nothing..

You could get so much more value just by having tonges play juices spot or kittle. Then you might actually have a mismatch.

Or like anybody has said put a RB in the backfield or run a sweep to a wr....

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
last time I mentioned it, I wasn't talking i formation or anything.
it can be similar to when we both had Deebo and CMC in the backfield.

but like I mentioned before, motion out CMC and look for a miss match if not run Robinson up the middle or in the opposite direction. Or a screen to Robinson on the opposite side.

imo, get Robinson the opportunity to get some open space and create or break a tackle for big play...

Okay, but what purpose does having 2 running backs on the field at once serve that 21 personnel with Juice doesn't? I still don't see where there's an advantage to be gained by having 2 running backs on the field that Juice+a RB doesn't provide. There's no personnel mismatch here because defenses are going to counter this the exact same way they play 21 personnel. CMC already gets a LB in coverage....with 2 RBs on the field, he continues to get a LB...???? It's a downgrade in run blocking because neither CMC or Robinson are going to block better than Juice. This seems like something fans think sounds good in theory without actually extrapolating the X's and O's aspect.

I'm a big fan of Juice...but

Robinson is faster that Juice, and can be used a few more ways than him.

I would rather call a dump off pass to Robinson than Juice.
I would rather call a screen pass to Robinson than Juice.
I would rather run the ball up the middle to Robinson than Juice.
I would rather do a quick toss pass to Robinson than Juice.

I believe we have sent Robinson deep on wheel routes, but missed opportunities.

just a quick goolge search, but this is what I'm talking about.... I'm not talking all the time, just when we need some yards.. it can be for short yardage or maybe opens something big.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
Explain to me how juice is a mismatch?

The dude regularly gets tackled by 180 lb dbs even though he's 230.

You know why we always have these plays where he's for some reason wide open? Because other teams seem him out wide and half the time literally he doesn't get covered at all... Because why would you cover a slow 230 lb fb who can't break tackles or grind out tough yards on fourth and short.

Juice is part of the problem. Sub juice in for literally any other player and your getting something instead of nothing..

You could get so much more value just by having tonges play juices spot or kittle. Then you might actually have a mismatch.

Or like anybody has said put a RB in the backfield or run a sweep to a wr....

This isn't a defense of Juice. It's about the personnel matchups. You can put the backup FB in and still proves the same point. What purpose does 2 RBs serve over 21 personnel?

As for Juice: I think he's just okay as a blocker, but let's not pretend that he doesn't have an insane workload with a broad scope of responsibilities in the offense. The guy carries out more shifts, alignments and motions than any other player on the offense. Neither CMC or Robinson handle this aspect of the offense, so having both of those guys on the field at the same time literally just makes the window dressing and leveraging of the offense worse.

As far as him getting wide open--this is quite literally a byproduct of personnel mismatching. Defenses get into base personnel to counter 21 personnel; base defense packages aren't designed to cover--they're designed to stop the run. So, when the 49ers dial up and sequence the run game, get defenders to overcommit to stopping it, and then play action off that with a pass concept, that's how Juice gets lost in the shuffle and gets wide open. It's the same way McVay forced the 49ers to get into base defense with 13 personnel, softened them up with the run game and then forced Luke Gifford into coverage to be attacked. It's all about the personnel mismatch.

Again, what's purpose does 2 running backs on the field at once server that 21 personnel doesn't? I've still yet to hear it.

Originally posted by Afrikan:
I'm a big fan of Juice...but

Robinson is faster that Juice, and can be used a few more ways than him.

I would rather call a dump off pass to Robinson than Juice.
I would rather call a screen pass to Robinson than Juice.
I would rather run the ball up the middle to Robinson than Juice.
I would rather do a quick toss pass to Robinson than Juice.

I believe we have sent Robinson deep on wheel routes, but missed opportunities.

This still doesn't explain what the advantage of having 2 RBs on the field at the same time serves from a football perspective. Everything you listed can be done with just Robinson on the field. Defenses are going to counter 2 RBs the exact same way they play 21 personnel. If anything, having 2 RBs on the field at once diminishes and limits what Shanahan can do.

The reason Deebo was such a weapon in 2021 was because defenses struggled to counter him with their personnel. For example, if the defense went into nickel or dime, Shanahan could get under center in a run formation, put Deebo in the backfield and force DBs to fit runs, hold gaps and tackle--something most DBs suck at. Or if defenses were worried about that and went into base defense, Shanahan could flex everyone out and get a giant mismatch somewhere with a base LB forced to get into coverage on a RB or TE.

Again, this isn't a case for or defense of Juice. You can put the backup FB in and still proves the same point. What purpose does 2 RBs serve over 21 personnel?

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
last time I mentioned it, I wasn't talking i formation or anything.
it can be similar to when we both had Deebo and CMC in the backfield.

but like I mentioned before, motion out CMC and look for a miss match if not run Robinson up the middle or in the opposite direction. Or a screen to Robinson on the opposite side.

imo, get Robinson the opportunity to get some open space and create or break a tackle for big play...

Okay, but what purpose does having 2 running backs on the field at once serve that 21 personnel with Juice doesn't? I still don't see where there's an advantage to be gained by having 2 running backs on the field that Juice+a RB doesn't provide. There's no personnel mismatch here because defenses are going to counter this the exact same way they play 21 personnel. CMC already gets a LB in coverage....with 2 RBs on the field, he continues to get a LB...???? It's a downgrade in run blocking because neither CMC or Robinson are going to block better than Juice. This seems like something fans think sounds good in theory without actually extrapolating the X's and O's aspect.

I'm a big fan of Juice...but

Robinson is faster that Juice, and can be used a few more ways than him.

I would rather call a dump off pass to Robinson than Juice.
I would rather call a screen pass to Robinson than Juice.
I would rather run the ball up the middle to Robinson than Juice.
I would rather do a quick toss pass to Robinson than Juice.

I believe we have sent Robinson deep on wheel routes, but missed opportunities.

just a quick goolge search, but this is what I'm talking about.... I'm not talking all the time, just when we need some yards.. it can be for short yardage or maybe opens something big.

Ya, bye bye to the fullback. Give me Tonges and Kittle.

The idea of 2 running backs on the field would be much more potent if the 49ers had legitimate 2 dual-threat RBs. I can definitely see a case for that because it would become more like the Deebo offense again where defenses would have pick their poison with their personnel matchups, and you'd end up with mismatches in both the run and pass game.

But Robinson is literally JAG in the pass game, so he doesn't really give opposing defensive coordinators much to worry about when matching personnel.

RB is a quandary at this point. Brian Robinson & Patrick Taylor are free agents and ideally they bring back one veteran as the #3. The problem is that Isaac Guerendo hasn't shown he can be the #2 and Jordan James is still an unknown. This might be another year where they grab RB in the 3rd and another in the 6th.

Originally posted by Heroism:
The idea of 2 running backs on the field would be much more potent if the 49ers had legitimate 2 dual-threat RBs. I can definitely see a case for that because it would become more like the Deebo offense again where defenses would have pick their poison with their personnel matchups, and you'd end up with mismatches in both the run and pass game.

But Robinson is literally JAG in the pass game, so he doesn't really give opposing defensive coordinators much to worry about when matching personnel.

We saw last year Guerendo make some catches down the field, show some soft hands. I wish Kyle continued to develop him on the field... continued to build up his confidence. But instead I see him in street clothes staring at the field, while fully healthy. 😐