49ers select Nick Martin-LB-Oklahoma State with the 75th pick in the 2025 NFL Draft

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I'm talking about players, not the team overall. We can talk about the players that were properly valued that have played well….how about the players that were overall considered reaches each draft? Who outplayed their "reach" value?

Solomon Thomas and Reuben Foster were both top 15 after the combine and CMC was 20th. LOTS of bad data out there :)

Consensus big board had CMC 10th overall. Foster was a top 15 talent, he was a head case and got hurt.

still didn't answer my question who have we draft that was considered a substantial reach that played to their draft spot?

Originally posted by Heroism:
I think Deion Jones(6 ft, 222) is the best comp for Martin if he reaches his ceiling. Before guys like Roquan and Fred took over the NFL, Deion Jones was regarded as one of the best--if not the best--LBs in the NFL. That dude was crazy good when Shanny was in Atlanta.

If he hits Jones level play, it's a home run pick. Quincy Williams who Saleh coached up is 5-11 225lbs coming out of college. Matt Milano Is 6ft 220 coming into the league.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by GorefullBore:
230 is what 49ers.com has him listed as.

https://www.49ers.com/team/players-roster/

These numbers aren't reliable*. Those heights and weights are usually pulled by college interns or corporate normies from Google searches whenever they update the website or create new player profiles. I never look at those pages, but they used to be filled a ton of errors.

Remember the Solomon Thomas drama? Everyone was losing their mind when the 49ers website had him listed at 256. The comms department had to notify the local media that the number was wrong.

Some news: I've checked with the 49ers, and Solomon Thomas now weighs 280 pounds.

He's added a few pounds of muscle this offseason (there was a scare Thomas was only 256 pounds because of an old listing.)

— David Lombardi (@LombardiHimself) May 31, 2018

Fred was never that light. If a report by Matt Maiocco like that existed, it would've 100% been posted in the Fred thread. Fake news.

Fred is almost 6-4, he was 236lbs at the combine. Zero chance he's not at least 240+lbs right now.

[edited]

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I'm talking about players, not the team overall. We can talk about the players that were properly valued that have played well….how about the players that were overall considered reaches each draft? Who outplayed their "reach" value?

Solomon Thomas and Reuben Foster were both top 15 after the combine and CMC was 20th. LOTS of bad data out there :)

Consensus big board had CMC 10th overall. Foster was a top 15 talent, he was a head case and got hurt.

still didn't answer my question who have we draft that was considered a substantial reach that played to their draft spot?

Apparently the "consensus" wasn't quite a consensus. Where is this "consensus" data from?

Your question wasn't to me. I was just illustrating how bad media (and apparently team) player evaluation is pre-draft.

Originally posted by Scoots:
Apparently the "consensus" wasn't quite a consensus. Where is this "consensus" data from?

Your question wasn't to me. I was just illustrating how bad media (and apparently team) player evaluation is pre-draft.

Ah the consensus big board of 2017

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2017/consensus-big-board-2017

You can call it "bad media" or you can call it bad scouting/GM processing from teams all the same.

Even if Martin is graded out as a 3rd rd talent according to your scouts. How about you read the room/league and understand that you STILL might be able to get him later? Maybe see if you can at least move down? My god we made most of our picks within 30 secs of our turn this yr…at least try.

FWIW We did it with Kittle. Had a 3rd rd grade on him, yet they knew they could get him later. Use those other picks on properly valued good talent AND still get your dude…sucks they took those 3rd and 4th rd picks and basically threw it in the trash that yr (CJ and Williams)…who were wait for it…massive reaches!

we've consistently been at the top of the rankings in reaching for talent. Again, rarely has it workout out (I don't need a deflecting point about properly ranked player busts).

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Fred is almost 6-4, he was 236lbs at the combine. Zero chance he's not at least 240+lbs right now.

yea, for real.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Ah the consensus big board of 2017

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2017/consensus-big-board-2017

You can call it "bad media" or you can call it bad scouting/GM processing from teams all the same.

Even if Martin is graded out as a 3rd rd talent according to your scouts. How about you read the room/league and understand that you STILL might be able to get him later? Maybe see if you can at least move down? My god we made most of our picks within 30 secs of our turn this yr…at least try.

FWIW We did it with Kittle. Had a 3rd rd grade on him, yet they knew they could get him later. Use those other picks on properly valued good talent AND still get your dude…sucks they took those 3rd and 4th rd picks and basically threw it in the trash that yr (CJ and Williams)…who were wait for it…massive reaches!

we've consistently been at the top of the rankings in reaching for talent. Again, rarely has it workout out (I don't need a deflecting point about properly ranked player busts).

The 49ers are terrible at draft value. We're all 49ers' fans, but we also should be honest because it's obvious they're so bad at applying draft value to their board. This is why their whiffs look sooooo bad. They take guys rounds ahead of where the rest of the league has them slotted.

Originally posted by Heroism:
yea, for real.

The 49ers are terrible at draft value. We're all 49ers' fans, but we also should be honest because it's obvious they're so bad at applying draft value to their board. This is why their whiffs look sooooo bad. They take guys rounds ahead of where the rest of the league has them slotted.

True but every team does this

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Fred is almost 6-4, he was 236lbs at the combine. Zero chance he's not at least 240+lbs right now.

yea, for real.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Ah the consensus big board of 2017

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2017/consensus-big-board-2017

You can call it "bad media" or you can call it bad scouting/GM processing from teams all the same.

Even if Martin is graded out as a 3rd rd talent according to your scouts. How about you read the room/league and understand that you STILL might be able to get him later? Maybe see if you can at least move down? My god we made most of our picks within 30 secs of our turn this yr…at least try.

FWIW We did it with Kittle. Had a 3rd rd grade on him, yet they knew they could get him later. Use those other picks on properly valued good talent AND still get your dude…sucks they took those 3rd and 4th rd picks and basically threw it in the trash that yr (CJ and Williams)…who were wait for it…massive reaches!

we've consistently been at the top of the rankings in reaching for talent. Again, rarely has it workout out (I don't need a deflecting point about properly ranked player busts).

The 49ers are terrible at draft value. We're all 49ers' fans, but we also should be honest because it's obvious they're so bad at applying draft value to their board. This is why their whiffs look sooooo bad. They take guys rounds ahead of where the rest of the league has them slotted.

Thank you! Let's keep s**t real. Constant reaching and not a whole hell of a lot to show for it.

its hard enough to draft good players that are properly valued and have them become good players.

SF is making things harder for themselves and there's not reason for it….not sure if they just think they're smarter than everyone or what? IMO this regime gives a ton of power to the coaching staff come draft time.

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:

Originally posted by Heroism:
yea, for real.

The 49ers are terrible at draft value. We're all 49ers' fans, but we also should be honest because it's obvious they're so bad at applying draft value to their board. This is why their whiffs look sooooo bad. They take guys rounds ahead of where the rest of the league has them slotted.

True but every team does this

Yea but SF is leading the league in this department.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:

Originally posted by Heroism:
yea, for real.

The 49ers are terrible at draft value. We're all 49ers' fans, but we also should be honest because it's obvious they're so bad at applying draft value to their board. This is why their whiffs look sooooo bad. They take guys rounds ahead of where the rest of the league has them slotted.

True but every team does this

Yea but SF is leading the league in this department.

Value is whatever the person making the choice says it is. It doesn't matter what others say it is. It's like buying a house. Sellers often think the home is worth X but the market says otherwise. However it only takes one person to like that house and be willing to pay a premium. Fans love to point out picks that don't make it but what about the late round picks that do make it. It makes no difference when a player is picked if he ends up being a solid starter or Pro Bowl player.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:

Originally posted by Heroism:
yea, for real.

The 49ers are terrible at draft value. We're all 49ers' fans, but we also should be honest because it's obvious they're so bad at applying draft value to their board. This is why their whiffs look sooooo bad. They take guys rounds ahead of where the rest of the league has them slotted.

True but every team does this

Yea but SF is leading the league in this department.

Value is whatever the person making the choice says it is. It doesn't matter what others say it is. It's like buying a house. Sellers often think the home is worth X but the market says otherwise. However it only takes one person to like that house and be willing to pay a premium. Fans love to point out picks that don't make it but what about the late round picks that do make it. It makes no difference when a player is picked if he ends up being a solid starter or Pro Bowl player.

This makes sense. People put too much stock into this. Now if the Niners pick a player who was projected to be an UDFA with their first round pick, then that's something to cry about.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Value is whatever the person making the choice says it is. It doesn't matter what others say it is. It's like buying a house. Sellers often think the home is worth X but the market says otherwise. However it only takes one person to like that house and be willing to pay a premium. Fans love to point out picks that don't make it but what about the late round picks that do make it. It makes no difference when a player is picked if he ends up being a solid starter or Pro Bowl player.

So the people that bought the house OVERSPENT to buy a house. The market did not say the house was worth that. They lost money. You're proving my point. Why do we have to constantly be the people that are overspending on a house?

again, show me all the success stories of SF reaching on players and it turning into the right move? There isn't much to defend there.

it makes complete sense when you can draft a player that's not regarded as a reach (higher value) AND you can get that same player who was a reach at their proper value.

There's no reason to defend this draft philosophy. They refuse to read the room/league and overall it hasn't been a net positive.

Originally posted by Alfienator:
This makes sense. People put too much stock into this. Now if the Niners pick a player who was projected to be an UDFA with their first round pick, then that's something to cry about.

What he said is literally proving my point. SF has been overspending on those houses for years….compared to the market. They aren't seeing the return for it and continue to make poor investments. That's not really sustainable.

FWIW I'm not s**tting on Martin, maybe he turns out great BUT you could have very well had him a rd or two later..at worst you could have moved around to get him and drafted someone else in that top 75 range, it's not like they didn't have a ton of picks to work with.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Value is whatever the person making the choice says it is. It doesn't matter what others say it is. It's like buying a house. Sellers often think the home is worth X but the market says otherwise. However it only takes one person to like that house and be willing to pay a premium. Fans love to point out picks that don't make it but what about the late round picks that do make it. It makes no difference when a player is picked if he ends up being a solid starter or Pro Bowl player.

So the people that bought the house OVERSPENT to buy a house. The market did not say the house was worth that. They lost money. You're proving my point. Why do we have to constantly be the people that are overspending on a house?

again, show me all the success stories of SF reaching on players and it turning into the right move? There isn't much to defend.

it makes complete sense when you can draft a player that's not regarded as a reach (higher value) AND you can get that same player who was a reach at their proper value.

There's no reason to defend this draft philosophy. They refuse to read the room/league and overall it hasn't been a net positive.

If they're willing to overpay for a house and they're happy then what's the problem. Samewith draftinga player or signing a player. You can'y really believe that any player is worth $50 million per year just because that's what the market says. Lot's of plyers that get signed to big contracts never live up to them.

The final result is all that matters. If the player performs well and becomes a major part of the team it makes no difference whether he was drafted 1st or last. Lance was a bust and Purdy has played well. If Lance had played well enough to stay with the team and they won the same amount of games the net result would be the same.

Passing on a player you like because you think he'll be availabale later can bite you in the ass. If someone else takes him just before your next pick then you miss out on a guy you wanted because you thought the value wasn't there. If he ends up being a good player then you failed.