QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by genus49:
Jimmy G had arm limitations and I can give you several examples where his arm strength hurt us on throws he attempted to make but couldn't.

Brock understands his limitations and yet is still more aggressive than Jimmy.

The point (which I think you might have got) was you probably shouldn't be looking for throws Brock made where his arm strength hurt him, and rather look for throws that aren't there. Throws that you'd see other QBs make on a game to game basis across the league. Turn downs, missed opportunities, etc.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by Chance:
It's reliant on a suite of skills tied to mental processing. You and I have obviously both watched many HOF QBs over the decades. The best QBs in history excel in this skill more than any other. Being able to read the future is a pretty f**king important QB skill and it's not just knowing where your guy is going to be and delivering an accurate ball on time (multiple skills there), it's also knowing what the defense is doing with pre and post-snap evaluations (more skills). I haven't watched enough of Tua to evaluate where he and Brock compare on anticipatory throws, or the general decision-making and processing abilities that govern this skill.

You must confuse me with someone who does not recognize faults in Brock's game. I take it all in, and my opinion is where it is based on the information I've collated. JTO makes, what I consider, a very unbiased observation of Purdy's abilities. I do not agree that it would be surprising if he ranked Brock in the top ten. To the contrary, I think it would be surprising if he didn't. But we will probably never know, since such arbitrary rankings are inherently flawed.

Specifically based on what?

You're putting more faith into an unknown evaluation standard than I'm willing to do. People are people and are subject to the same issues that plague humanity in any field. This is not a science, it's, as you say, a subjective opinion--one we know is mirrored in media with incredibly problematic takes. But if this is what you want to hang your hat on, that's your prerogative. I've also watched decades of the game and know when a guy is deserving of the accolades. Brock in 2023 was absolutely one of the best three QBs in the game that season. To say otherwise is simply an opinion I will never agree with and can never be supported with objective data.

Again, assuming there is no bias. One would think that personnel would have a stake in their initial opinion of Purdy being an UDFA caliber QB.

In the end, no one really knows who Purdy is and how his career will play out. I'm a fan of this team, and I'm going to believe in the best possible future until proven otherwise.

To the bolded, it's based specifically on the sample of opinion we got from that group of people following that particular season.

Again, I'm not suggesting that these surveys are the end all be all. What I'm suggesting is that they are better opinions than fans citing statistics as the backbone of their argument and they should illuminate the fact that a lesser opinion of Purdy isn't the product of bias. I pretty much flatly reject the idea that front office personnel are going to have an axe to grind in an anonymous survey due to pre-draft assessments of Purdy. Whether you think Purdy is the 7th best QB in the NFL, or between 15-20, it's a crushing indictment of those pre-draft assessments either way. There's nothing to protect there, not to mention there is simply no actual evidence to support the idea that bias is driving their opinion other than they disagree with fan opinion. I mean you had a poster suggest TJH saying Brock should make 6-7 million less per year on his deal is because Aiyuk wasnt given the ball enough in the Super Bowl, lol. Just a gigantic reach. It should be obvious the bias is going to be more present in 49ers fans.

There's obviously a difference between relying on numbers as your sole metric, and assigning some level of weight to the numbers. They do mean something, although to what degree is obviously subjective, or we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I guess I'm asking what you see in Brock's game during 2023 that makes his numbers a mirage? Because for me, the numbers support what the eyeballs saw, which was a top 5 QB season. So what differs with your assessment?

Originally posted by pdc20:
TJ said that Brock was overpaid and then said that he would have paid him 47 millions a year.^^
What's the difference seriously?^^

He also said you are overpaid unless you win the SB. His exact words. So that means Allen, Burrow, Lamar, And Herbert are overpaid. And everyone except for Mahomes, Hurts, and Stafford. What an idiotic take.

Originally posted by JTB1974:

Originally posted by pdc20:
TJ said that Brock was overpaid and then said that he would have paid him 47 millions a year.^^
What's the difference seriously?^^

He also said you are overpaid unless you win the SB. His exact words. So that means Allen, Burrow, Lamar, And Herbert are overpaid. And everyone except for Mahomes, Hurts, and Stafford. What an idiotic take.

Did dude ever win a playoff game?

might've already been posted somewhere else, but here you go if not.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by genus49:
Jimmy G had arm limitations and I can give you several examples where his arm strength hurt us on throws he attempted to make but couldn't.

Brock understands his limitations and yet is still more aggressive than Jimmy.

The point (which I think you might have got) was you probably shouldn't be looking for throws Brock made where his arm strength hurt him, and rather look for throws that aren't there. Throws that you'd see other QBs make on a game to game basis across the league. Turn downs, missed opportunities, etc.

I would disagree that Brock understands his limitations. He's got a gunslinger mentality and doesn't exactly have a big gun. This past season he was looking downfield a ton trying for the big play. I would say that's the opposite of Jimmy who refused to push the ball downfield. That said I'll take the guy who is willing to push the ball downfield.

With Brock and arm strength it's about those tight-window throws.

PFF's Wasserman noted that Purdy hasn't been particularly good on tight-window throws, attempts on which there is a yard or less of separation between the defender and target. It's the kind of throw at which big-armed passers like Justin Herbert, Russell Wilson and Sam Darnold excelled in 2024. Over the past two seasons, Purdy ranks 28th in PFF's passing grade on those types of throws.

"Purdy's never been particularly great at it," Wasserman said.

again arm strength isn't the end all be all…he's had to become a quick processor in part because he doesn't have quite the arm talent as some of these other guys. Like others said what you have from the neck up matters a whole hell of a lot.

for me, I would love to see him use his legs more this yr. I want teams to feel the pressure of him scrambling on those 2nd and 3rd downs. He's got the ability to be a threat there. He can help dictate coverages. He's not a dummy and knows when to get down as well.

TJ and those like him are nothing more than parrots, repeating lazy, thoughtless takes. God himself could not have overcome last year's train wreck. A ton of Injuries and a defense that couldn't stop a JV team are not things any qb can overcome. Stfu already. And coming from a guy that trains our #1 WR… umm f**k you and double f**k you if yuk keeps him.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by Chance:
It's reliant on a suite of skills tied to mental processing. You and I have obviously both watched many HOF QBs over the decades. The best QBs in history excel in this skill more than any other. Being able to read the future is a pretty f**king important QB skill and it's not just knowing where your guy is going to be and delivering an accurate ball on time (multiple skills there), it's also knowing what the defense is doing with pre and post-snap evaluations (more skills). I haven't watched enough of Tua to evaluate where he and Brock compare on anticipatory throws, or the general decision-making and processing abilities that govern this skill.

You must confuse me with someone who does not recognize faults in Brock's game. I take it all in, and my opinion is where it is based on the information I've collated. JTO makes, what I consider, a very unbiased observation of Purdy's abilities. I do not agree that it would be surprising if he ranked Brock in the top ten. To the contrary, I think it would be surprising if he didn't. But we will probably never know, since such arbitrary rankings are inherently flawed.

Specifically based on what?

You're putting more faith into an unknown evaluation standard than I'm willing to do. People are people and are subject to the same issues that plague humanity in any field. This is not a science, it's, as you say, a subjective opinion--one we know is mirrored in media with incredibly problematic takes. But if this is what you want to hang your hat on, that's your prerogative. I've also watched decades of the game and know when a guy is deserving of the accolades. Brock in 2023 was absolutely one of the best three QBs in the game that season. To say otherwise is simply an opinion I will never agree with and can never be supported with objective data.

Again, assuming there is no bias. One would think that personnel would have a stake in their initial opinion of Purdy being an UDFA caliber QB.

In the end, no one really knows who Purdy is and how his career will play out. I'm a fan of this team, and I'm going to believe in the best possible future until proven otherwise.

To the bolded, it's based specifically on the sample of opinion we got from that group of people following that particular season.

Again, I'm not suggesting that these surveys are the end all be all. What I'm suggesting is that they are better opinions than fans citing statistics as the backbone of their argument and they should illuminate the fact that a lesser opinion of Purdy isn't the product of bias. I pretty much flatly reject the idea that front office personnel are going to have an axe to grind in an anonymous survey due to pre-draft assessments of Purdy. Whether you think Purdy is the 7th best QB in the NFL, or between 15-20, it's a crushing indictment of those pre-draft assessments either way. There's nothing to protect there, not to mention there is simply no actual evidence to support the idea that bias is driving their opinion other than they disagree with fan opinion. I mean you had a poster suggest TJH saying Brock should make 6-7 million less per year on his deal is because Aiyuk wasnt given the ball enough in the Super Bowl, lol. Just a gigantic reach. It should be obvious the bias is going to be more present in 49ers fans.

The thing about those surveys is people don't put their name on them. In the end I bet you a lot of those same people are responsible for making their teams draft boards and clearly didn't think much of Purdy only to look stupid in hindsight.

These are people in football but they're still people. People have biases like we all do. I'm sure the only time we want to be proven wrong is when it helps our team win and for some even that's a struggle. I see it on twitter every day, guys took a stand and they're fighting tooth and nail at every opportunity to say I told you so.

The people who don't live off click bait or hot takes consistently praise Purdy. Do some people go way over the top with the praise? Absolutely. But I've watched this game for a long time and seen a lot of talented highly drafted players suck at this game because they couldn't come close to the mental side of the game.

I don't know what Brock will be long term. I don't know if he'll ever be mentioned with the top guys in the game but the amount of expectations and unreasonable takes the kid has gotten through 3 years in the NFL is crazy to me.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by genus49:
Jimmy G had arm limitations and I can give you several examples where his arm strength hurt us on throws he attempted to make but couldn't.

Brock understands his limitations and yet is still more aggressive than Jimmy.

The point (which I think you might have got) was you probably shouldn't be looking for throws Brock made where his arm strength hurt him, and rather look for throws that aren't there. Throws that you'd see other QBs make on a game to game basis across the league. Turn downs, missed opportunities, etc.

Except that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Your point above would be accurate if not for the simple fact that Brock constantly looks to push the ball up the field. If he's turning things down it's because he doesn't think he can make that throw and I will take that in a heartbeat. His arm doesn't limit us to the short game. He can throw it 50 yards down the field. If he can't consistently hit 60+ yards down the field and that becomes a problem for us then we have a LOT more problems than his arm.

This offense will never be reliant on those deep throws. Nor should we have to rely on the big boy needle throws down the field as you're rolling left through multiple defenders.

That's not Brock's game and it's not Kyle Shanahan's offense. Yes, his inability to make those things happen is why he may never enter the elite ranks of QBs but there are several guys in the HOF who couldn't do it either. One of them has 4 SB rings for this franchise.

In the end rings/wins > flashy plays. We'll see what Brock looks like moving forward after getting the big $ but his arm does not limit this offense from doing what it needs to do and his understanding of his limitations avoids the mistakes that qbs like Jimmy made that did hurt the offense and limited it as a result.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I would disagree that Brock understands his limitations. He's got a gunslinger mentality and doesn't exactly have a big gun. This past season he was looking downfield a ton trying for the big play. I would say that's the opposite of Jimmy who refused to push the ball downfield. That said I'll take the guy who is willing to push the ball downfield.

With Brock and arm strength it's about those tight-window throws.

PFF's Wasserman noted that Purdy hasn't been particularly good on tight-window throws, attempts on which there is a yard or less of separation between the defender and target. It's the kind of throw at which big-armed passers like Justin Herbert, Russell Wilson and Sam Darnold excelled in 2024. Over the past two seasons, Purdy ranks 28th in PFF's passing grade on those types of throws.

"Purdy's never been particularly great at it," Wasserman said.

again arm strength isn't the end all be all…he's had to become a quick processor in part because he doesn't have quite the arm talent as some of these other guys. Like others said what you have from the neck up matters a whole hell of a lot.

for me, I would love to see him use his legs more this yr. I want teams to feel the pressure of him scrambling on those 2nd and 3rd downs. He's got the ability to be a threat there. He can help dictate coverages. He's not a dummy and knows when to get down as well.

Which play would you say last year showed Brock's arm limitation hurting us?

There are two different things in your post IMO. There is his arm limitation which IMO he understands very well and his gunslinger mentality which for any QB with that mentality, comes with good and bad. There is a reason Brett Favre led the NFL in interceptions. Certainly no arm limitations there.

I would also agree that Brock needs to regroup and reign in that gunslinger mentality a bit more moving forward. There's a time and a place. If both the short and the big plays are open - go for the big one if you think you can make the throw. However that mental processor has to be in overdrive cuz you better know if the big play is worth giving that down away if you don't connect. Sometimes it's better to take the short stuff and see what your guys can do then move to the next down.

I think Brock may have been trying to play more hero ball last year cuz of the missing pieces and it led to some poor habits from him and given his recent comments I think he understood that and will be fixing it moving forward.

Originally posted by genus49:
Except that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Your point above would be accurate if not for the simple fact that Brock constantly looks to push the ball up the field. If he's turning things down it's because he doesn't think he can make that throw and I will take that in a heartbeat. His arm doesn't limit us to the short game. He can throw it 50 yards down the field. If he can't consistently hit 60+ yards down the field and that becomes a problem for us then we have a LOT more problems than his arm.

This offense will never be reliant on those deep throws. Nor should we have to rely on the big boy needle throws down the field as you're rolling left through multiple defenders.

That's not Brock's game and it's not Kyle Shanahan's offense. Yes, his inability to make those things happen is why he may never enter the elite ranks of QBs but there are several guys in the HOF who couldn't do it either. One of them has 4 SB rings for this franchise.

In the end rings/wins > flashy plays. We'll see what Brock looks like moving forward after getting the big $ but his arm does not limit this offense from doing what it needs to do and his understanding of his limitations avoids the mistakes that qbs like Jimmy made that did hurt the offense and limited it as a result.

I'm totally jumping in this convo and you can tell me if I'm reading the debate wrong…but why are folks talking about how far someone can throw a football in regards to "arm strength"? All these NFL level QBs can throw a football 50+ yards downfield, especially when you can set your feet and throw…if they couldn't they won't be in the NFL to begin with.

Arm strength in the NFL is making those tight window throws or tossing an out route with real velocity. Arm strength is being able to flick a football downfield on a rope without having to reset your feet all the time.

maybe folks are talking about "flashy" plays in regards to arm talent…but the reality is windows and guys being "open" are small. Arm talent absolutely matters at the highest level when your job is to throw a football and you're playing against the best athletes in the world. Brock makes up for whatever deficients he has there with being able to process fast and throw with anticipation. I don't think his arm overall limits what Kyle can run here.

Originally posted by genus49:
Which play would you say last year showed Brock's arm limitation hurting us?

There are two different things in your post IMO. There is his arm limitation which IMO he understands very well and his gunslinger mentality which for any QB with that mentality, comes with good and bad. There is a reason Brett Favre led the NFL in interceptions. Certainly no arm limitations there.

I would also agree that Brock needs to regroup and reign in that gunslinger mentality a bit more moving forward. There's a time and a place. If both the short and the big plays are open - go for the big one if you think you can make the throw. However that mental processor has to be in overdrive cuz you better know if the big play is worth giving that down away if you don't connect. Sometimes it's better to take the short stuff and see what your guys can do then move to the next down.

I think Brock may have been trying to play more hero ball last year cuz of the missing pieces and it led to some poor habits from him and given his recent comments I think he understood that and will be fixing it moving forward.

See my post above… I don't think his arm talent hurts the team's ability to run Kyle's offense.

I was just explaining how he is a gunslinger and he might not have the biggest gun to make it happen all the time. I would rather have a guy who's willing to push the ball vs take the check down all game. Be smart about it though.

maybe he was trying a little too much, but I think that's kinda who he is too. He was the same way in college.

Does anyone have Brock's tight window stats from 2022 and 2023? To compare it to 2024? Cause last season we had terrible separation - literally the worst in the league. So when essentially EVERY throw is technically considered a tight window throw (1 yard or less of sep), then it may be skewed for 2024, IMO.

i think Brock understands he doesn't have a cannon and tries to compensate that with timing/touch/accuracy.

im really intrigued to see him this year cause last year the skill positions around him didn't do him many favors. So far in his careers he's either had excellent skill player options or bad (from a separation standpoint).

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
Which play would you say last year showed Brock's arm limitation hurting us?

There are two different things in your post IMO. There is his arm limitation which IMO he understands very well and his gunslinger mentality which for any QB with that mentality, comes with good and bad. There is a reason Brett Favre led the NFL in interceptions. Certainly no arm limitations there.

I would also agree that Brock needs to regroup and reign in that gunslinger mentality a bit more moving forward. There's a time and a place. If both the short and the big plays are open - go for the big one if you think you can make the throw. However that mental processor has to be in overdrive cuz you better know if the big play is worth giving that down away if you don't connect. Sometimes it's better to take the short stuff and see what your guys can do then move to the next down.

I think Brock may have been trying to play more hero ball last year cuz of the missing pieces and it led to some poor habits from him and given his recent comments I think he understood that and will be fixing it moving forward.

See my post above… I don't think his arm talent hurts the team's ability to run Kyle's offense.

I was just explaining how he is a gunslinger and he might not have the biggest gun to make it happen all the time. I would rather have a guy who's willing to push the ball vs take the check down all game. Be smart about it though.

maybe he was trying a little too much, but I think that's kinda who he is too. He was the same way in college.

Brock's arm is fine for Kyle's offense since the 49ers don't try many really deep passes. They don't have a bunch of 4.3 WRs streaking downfield. When Brock throws 30 yards or less he's accurate enough to excel. When he tries to launch one 40-50 yards in the air the ball tends to hang in the air too long. Receivers usualy need to slow up which allows the DB to close the gap. Stick with the short and midrange stuff and they're fine. There are only a handful of QBs that can accurately throw a ball 50 yards or more in the air and hit the receiver in stride.