Not all the same era. Many of those were 80's and 90's heyday. Bradshaw was 70's prime. That's all you can compare. Just because you may have overlapped for 1 year out of a 15 year career doesn't make you the "same era." 70's guys would be the same era. How many Super Bowl wins?
Brock Purdy thread. Lets get back to that.
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QB Brock Purdy Thread
QB Brock Purdy Thread
Oct 26, 2023 at 11:53 AM
- SanDiego49er
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Oct 26, 2023 at 11:53 AM
- SmokeyJoe
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,310
Originally posted by Furlow:
QB's with a better passer rating who played at the same time or earlier than Elway:
Dan Fouts
Steve Beurlein
Fran Tarkenton (lol)
Ken O'Brien
Bart Starr
Jeff Hostetler
Warren Moon
Boomer Esiason
Dave Kreig
Randall Cunningham
Troy Aikman
Danny White
Neil O'Donnell
Bernie Kosar
Ken Anderson
Sonny Jurgenson
Len Dawson
Neil Lomax
Roger Staubach
Jim Kelly
Rich Gannon
Dan Marino
Otto Graham
Joe Montana
Steve Young
The Jimmy G trap all over again. We struggle to learn, lol.
Oct 26, 2023 at 11:54 AM
- Furlow
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Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by Since07:
Shocked how meh Elway was stat wise never looked into it but yeah his stat sheet is nothing special. Terry Bradshaw is the worst though, maybe it was a different time but he threw as many interceptions as touchdowns with a 52% completion rate
Yea and these stats are a product of team situation, scheme, the individual QB, and teammates etc.
You won't find many people who really analyze QB's make the case that John Elway was a greatly overrated player. Outside of the top 5 or 10 all time? Maybe… def not far, at worst.
I would argue that anyone who truly analyzes QBs will understand he is an extremely overrated player. But his legacy has this hype built around it that people DONT want to actually analyze. He should be so far away from the top 5 or 10, but people just dont want to have that conversation because they arent willing to truly dig into his career.
His MVP was such a joke.
John Elway was NFL MVP in 1987 (strike shortened season)
3,198 passing yards, 19 TD's, 12 INT's, 54.6 completion percentage, 83.4 passer rating, 8-3-1 team record
Joe Montana in 1987:
3,054 passing yards, 31 TD's, 12 INT's, 66.8 completion percentage, 102.1 passer rating, 10-1 team record
Oct 26, 2023 at 11:55 AM
- Waterbear
- Veteran
- Posts: 18,527
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by Furlow:
QB's with a better passer rating who played at the same time or earlier than Elway:
Dan Fouts
Steve Beurlein
Fran Tarkenton (lol)
Ken O'Brien
Bart Starr
Jeff Hostetler
Warren Moon
Boomer Esiason
Dave Kreig
Randall Cunningham
Troy Aikman
Danny White
Neil O'Donnell
Bernie Kosar
Ken Anderson
Sonny Jurgenson
Len Dawson
Neil Lomax
Roger Staubach
Jim Kelly
Rich Gannon
Dan Marino
Otto Graham
Joe Montana
Steve Young
The Jimmy G trap all over again. We struggle to learn, lol.
To be fair, Furlow was the only poster I saw that admitted he bought into Jimmy being the reason for our success to much, after what we saw from Purdy.
Oct 26, 2023 at 11:56 AM
- SteveWallacesHelmet
- Veteran
- Posts: 23,992
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Since07:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Montana:
Originally posted by Furlow:
I'm with you 100% on this. Don't even get me started on how overrated Elway was/is.
I thought I was kinda the only one who thought Elway was overrated. I don't feel alone anymore! Lol 🙂.
Elway was very great. He had a rocket arm and very fast legs too. He didn't have a defense or running game most of his career. When he did get a complimentary RB they won the Super Bowl a few times. He mostly was carrying his teams for the majority of his career. Not overrated. Maybe a little underrated even.
Elway's career passer rating was 79.9. There are 93 QB's who are ranked ahead of him.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm
Shocked how meh Elway was stat wise never looked into it but yeah his stat sheet is nothing special. Terry Bradshaw is the worst though, maybe it was a different time but he threw as many interceptions as touchdowns with a 52% completion rate
Dude completely different eras. You used to be able to mug the WR's. You could grab them, turn them, hold them, check them hard at the line. You could go head first crown of the helmet right into the facemask of the WR coming across the middle. To knock him out. You could even close line.
You aren't comparing apples to apples. Every rule change over the last 25, 30, 40 years is to favor the offense and QB and WR's. It's a completely different game now. You can't play defense anymore. It's illegal to play defense now. Be more realistic about what you are comparing.
QB's with a better passer rating who played at the same time or earlier than Elway:
Dan Fouts
Steve Beurlein
Fran Tarkenton (lol)
Ken O'Brien
Bart Starr
Jeff Hostetler
Warren Moon
Boomer Esiason
Dave Kreig
Randall Cunningham
Troy Aikman
Danny White
Neil O'Donnell
Bernie Kosar
Ken Anderson
Sonny Jurgenson
Len Dawson
Neil Lomax
Roger Staubach
Jim Kelly
Rich Gannon
Dan Marino
Otto Graham
Joe Montana
Steve Young
This is the biggest thing for me. I understand that QBs put up monster stats now in comparison to years past. But Elway doesnt match up favorably in his own era, let alone against modern QBs.
19 different QBs started 100+ games between 1983 and 1998 (John Elway's career). Here's where Elway ranks:
Comp %: 16th
TD%: 13th
INT%: 10th
QB rating: 14th
YPA: 10th
ANY/A: 11th
Oct 26, 2023 at 11:57 AM
- SmokeyJoe
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,310
Originally posted by Waterbear:
To be fair, Furlow was the only poster I saw that admitted he bought into Jimmy being the reason for our success to much, after what we saw from Purdy.
I saw it too. Next step is understanding the reasons it happened and applying it across the board.
I'm not trying to be a dick though. I like F's posts and this is a super common argument.
Oct 26, 2023 at 11:58 AM
- SanDiego49er
- Veteran
- Posts: 52,171
Did all those people play in the same system or have the same level of talent, coaching or ownership? NOPE.
Brock Purdy thread. Lets get back to that now.
Brock Purdy thread. Lets get back to that now.
Oct 26, 2023 at 11:59 AM
- SmokeyJoe
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,310
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Did all those people play in the same system or have the same level of talent, coaching or ownership? NOPE.
Brock Purdy thread. Lets get back to that now.
It's kind of relevant to the Brock Purdy discussions in an indirect way at least, lol.
Definitely if you want to talk about where he ranks compared to his peers.
Oct 26, 2023 at 12:00 PM
- SteveWallacesHelmet
- Veteran
- Posts: 23,992
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by Since07:
Shocked how meh Elway was stat wise never looked into it but yeah his stat sheet is nothing special. Terry Bradshaw is the worst though, maybe it was a different time but he threw as many interceptions as touchdowns with a 52% completion rate
Yea and these stats are a product of team situation, scheme, the individual QB, and teammates etc.
You won't find many people who really analyze QB's make the case that John Elway was a greatly overrated player. Outside of the top 5 or 10 all time? Maybe… def not far, at worst.
I would argue that anyone who truly analyzes QBs will understand he is an extremely overrated player. But his legacy has this hype built around it that people DONT want to actually analyze. He should be so far away from the top 5 or 10, but people just dont want to have that conversation because they arent willing to truly dig into his career.
His MVP was such a joke.
John Elway was NFL MVP in 1987 (strike shortened season)
3,198 passing yards, 19 TD's, 12 INT's, 54.6 completion percentage, 83.4 passer rating, 8-3-1 team record
Joe Montana in 1987:
3,054 passing yards, 31 TD's, 12 INT's, 66.8 completion percentage, 102.1 passer rating, 10-1 team record
To add onto this, Montana was 1st team All-Pro over the league MVP. LMAOOOOO
Oct 26, 2023 at 12:00 PM
- 49AllTheTime
- Veteran
- Posts: 72,097
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:Brock Purdy, Gets concussed and throws INTs
Did all those people play in the same system or have the same level of talent, coaching or ownership? NOPE.
Brock Purdy thread. Lets get back to that now.
Oct 26, 2023 at 12:01 PM
- SmokeyJoe
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,310
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Brock Purdy, Gets concussed and throws INTs
The GOAT through his first 10 starts according to passer rating?
Oct 26, 2023 at 12:01 PM
- Furlow
- Veteran
- Posts: 25,451
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by Furlow:
QB's with a better passer rating who played at the same time or earlier than Elway:
Dan Fouts
Steve Beurlein
Fran Tarkenton (lol)
Ken O'Brien
Bart Starr
Jeff Hostetler
Warren Moon
Boomer Esiason
Dave Kreig
Randall Cunningham
Troy Aikman
Danny White
Neil O'Donnell
Bernie Kosar
Ken Anderson
Sonny Jurgenson
Len Dawson
Neil Lomax
Roger Staubach
Jim Kelly
Rich Gannon
Dan Marino
Otto Graham
Joe Montana
Steve Young
The Jimmy G trap all over again. We struggle to learn, lol.
To be fair, Furlow was the only poster I saw that admitted he bought into Jimmy being the reason for our success to much, after what we saw from Purdy.
This plus I don't even know what he was getting at. There are QB's on that list who also won Super Bowls, so that's no excuse for Elway.
Oct 26, 2023 at 12:01 PM
- Furlow
- Veteran
- Posts: 25,451
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by Since07:
Shocked how meh Elway was stat wise never looked into it but yeah his stat sheet is nothing special. Terry Bradshaw is the worst though, maybe it was a different time but he threw as many interceptions as touchdowns with a 52% completion rate
Yea and these stats are a product of team situation, scheme, the individual QB, and teammates etc.
You won't find many people who really analyze QB's make the case that John Elway was a greatly overrated player. Outside of the top 5 or 10 all time? Maybe… def not far, at worst.
I would argue that anyone who truly analyzes QBs will understand he is an extremely overrated player. But his legacy has this hype built around it that people DONT want to actually analyze. He should be so far away from the top 5 or 10, but people just dont want to have that conversation because they arent willing to truly dig into his career.
His MVP was such a joke.
John Elway was NFL MVP in 1987 (strike shortened season)
3,198 passing yards, 19 TD's, 12 INT's, 54.6 completion percentage, 83.4 passer rating, 8-3-1 team record
Joe Montana in 1987:
3,054 passing yards, 31 TD's, 12 INT's, 66.8 completion percentage, 102.1 passer rating, 10-1 team record
To add onto this, Montana was 1st team All-Pro over the league MVP. LMAOOOOO
Holy s**t I didn't even know that lol. Icing on the cake!
Oct 26, 2023 at 12:02 PM
- SanDiego49er
- Veteran
- Posts: 52,171
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:Brock Purdy, Gets concussed and throws INTs
Did all those people play in the same system or have the same level of talent, coaching or ownership? NOPE.
Brock Purdy thread. Lets get back to that now.
He's overall very, very good. With a future still yet to be written.
Oct 26, 2023 at 12:02 PM
- 49erFaithful6
- Veteran
- Posts: 39,910
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Did all those people play in the same system or have the same level of talent, coaching or ownership? NOPE.
Brock Purdy thread. Lets get back to that now.
Really good point, it's never apples to apples. Football is highly variable. And then ppl get into this era vs that, and the stats.
Best way to evaluate imo, how is a guy doing, given the play called, the way it's blocked, the way receivers are uncovering, and game situation. You really have to look at the film. Film doesn't lie.