QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
I understand it is a different era, but this isn't how Bill Walsh did it. Throwing such a young project-QB to the wolves fails far more often than not.

You're right it's a much different era with cap requirements.

Even so, cap number shouldn't necessarily factor into playing time. It should always be earned through hard work and competition. The situation this season is far more palatable than last season, where the job was simply handed out. But, they never expected JG to remain with the team. There were a lot of strange factors last season.

Work hard and compete, and let the chips fall where they may. Best player plays.

Everyone says this and points to last year as the exception, but when has this been true on the team when it comes to the starting QB role? Jimmy never had to compete for the starting job once he signed his deal here.

Yeah man it's a bunch of baloney. Same with draft status. You get more opportunities the higher you were drafted. You get a longer leash the more you've been invested in. That's just how it works.

My point with the whole cap space stuff was you could afford to have Joe and young on the same team if you wanted. I hate comparing how structures of a team were built or how so and so ran a team back then. That's like 3 yrs ago lol. s**t is much different now.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Let me just say this to both sides of this argument:

(1) The Texans defense when we played them last was better than their raw stats indicate. Bad offense makes your defense worse, and they were the 32nd best offense.

(2) The Cowboys defense last year was also better than their statistics indicate. Their pass rush in particular. That was a great defense .Absolutely on par with our defense. The fact that Brock didn't cost us is remarkable. He remained quite poised in the face of maybe the second best pass rush (we had the best pass rusher, but the Eagles and Cowboys had better team pass rush, IMHO; they were tied with the Eagles at 52% pass rush win rate. We were only 46%).

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34536376/2022-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams

One of Brock's "near interception" I keep seeing posted here was a tipped pass. The kid played very well. He missed a few things, sure. Was late a couple times, yeah. But he avoided the game-losing mistake. We lost by two scores if Jimmy is our QB in that game.

.
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So, both sides of this Trey v. Brock argument are underestimating how good the other side's QB is. Trey is not trash, and Brock is not just a lucky one hit wonder.

You seem to get it. DAL D >>> HOU D.. kind of a silly debate, you don't pick and choose what D to face, but if ppl want to debate those two Ds.. them's the facts.

You really have to cherry pick stats to show that HOU D as anything other than near absolute league worst, including in pass D.

BPs near INT was tipped, the other near INT which gets shared often, is a one on one downfield shot to our top WR last season. You want a QB taking those chances in one on ones, it's just not an accurate ball.. but that's why you trust your guy, BA made sure, it was no INT.. it was in no way a dropped INT, the ball was contacted by BA, essentially knocking it way iirc. That's simply not a drop.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
I understand it is a different era, but this isn't how Bill Walsh did it. Throwing such a young project-QB to the wolves fails far more often than not.

You're right it's a much different era with cap requirements.

Even so, cap number shouldn't necessarily factor into playing time. It should always be earned through hard work and competition. The situation this season is far more palatable than last season, where the job was simply handed out. But, they never expected JG to remain with the team. There were a lot of strange factors last season.

Work hard and compete, and let the chips fall where they may. Best player plays.

Everyone says this and points to last year as the exception, but when has this been true on the team when it comes to the starting QB role? Jimmy never had to compete for the starting job once he signed his deal here.

Yeah man it's a bunch of baloney. Same with draft status. You get more opportunities the higher you were drafted. You get a longer leash the more you've been invested in. That's just how it works.

My point with the whole cap space stuff was you could afford to have Joe and young on the same team if you wanted. I hate comparing how structures of a team were built or how so and so ran a team back then. That's like 3 yrs ago lol. s**t is much different now.

Jimmy sat behind Brady on the Patriots. On the 49ers, who was gonna take the job from him?

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Let me just say this to both sides of this argument:

(1) The Texans defense when we played them last was better than their raw stats indicate. Bad offense makes your defense worse, and they were the 32nd best offense.

(2) The Cowboys defense last year was also better than their statistics indicate. Their pass rush in particular. That was a great defense .Absolutely on par with our defense. The fact that Brock didn't cost us is remarkable. He remained quite poised in the face of maybe the second best pass rush (we had the best pass rusher, but the Eagles and Cowboys had better team pass rush, IMHO; they were tied with the Eagles at 52% pass rush win rate. We were only 46%).

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34536376/2022-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams

One of Brock's "near interception" I keep seeing posted here was a tipped pass. The kid played very well. He missed a few things, sure. Was late a couple times, yeah. But he avoided the game-losing mistake. We lost by two scores if Jimmy is our QB in that game.

.
.

So, both sides of this Trey v. Brock argument are underestimating how good the other side's QB is. Trey is not trash, and Brock is not just a lucky one hit wonder.

Honestly no one was trying to compare either team. I have no idea how that even became a thing. I just pointed out their pass D wasn't complete s**t.

the hypocrisy is in how people can't even say lance had a good game because this or that…they have no problem consistently show the raw stats from Brock/Sam to backup why they "played well".

Some People show the same stats for Lance in that game and it's nope, he played like trash or "only played well for a 1.5 QRs"

fans legit going out of their way to downplay Lance after a must win game his rookie yr with a broken finger. makeup whatever they can. Stats look great, but that's not enough for them. It shows there is no objectivity to be had from them, and overall making their debate pure crap.

no one wants to debate/have a conversation with someone that can't be objective. It's pointless.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Honestly no one was trying to compare either team. I have no idea how that even became a thing. I just pointed out their pass D wasn't complete s**t.

the hypocrisy is in how people can't even say lance had a good game because this or that…they have no problem consistently show the raw stats from Brock/Sam to backup why they "played well".

Some People show the same stats for Lance in that game and it's nope, he played like trash or "only played well for a 1.5 QRs"

fans legit going out of their way to downplay Lance after a must win game his rookie yr with a broken finger. makeup whatever they can. Stats look great, but that's not enough for them. It shows there is no objectivity to be had from them, and overall making their debate pure crap.

no one wants to debate/have a conversation with someone that can't be objective. It's pointless.

But it was NY it was. They were 7.1 net yds allowed per pass play. NFL worst that year was 7.2
they had to burn pick #3 and iirc pick #37 on DBs to try and fix that mess

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Jimmy sat behind Brady on the Patriots. On the 49ers, who was gonna take the job from him?

I'm not following? So you're saying when we made Jimmy the highest paid player in the league, CJ Beathard had a legit chance to be QB1 when he was draft?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Jimmy sat behind Brady on the Patriots. On the 49ers, who was gonna take the job from him?

I'm not following? So you're saying when we made Jimmy the highest paid player in the league, CJ Beathard had a legit chance to be QB1 when he was draft?

Y'all were saying he didn't have to compete, I'm just pointing out the depth behind a player matters a lot for that competition.
That is in large part why I'm so pumped about the team (and QBs) this season. They're all hungry with something to prove. Get after it fellas!

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
I understand it is a different era, but this isn't how Bill Walsh did it. Throwing such a young project-QB to the wolves fails far more often than not.

You're right it's a much different era with cap requirements.

Even so, cap number shouldn't necessarily factor into playing time. It should always be earned through hard work and competition. The situation this season is far more palatable than last season, where the job was simply handed out. But, they never expected JG to remain with the team. There were a lot of strange factors last season.

Work hard and compete, and let the chips fall where they may. Best player plays.

Everyone says this and points to last year as the exception, but when has this been true on the team when it comes to the starting QB role? Jimmy never had to compete for the starting job once he signed his deal here.

Yeah man it's a bunch of baloney. Same with draft status. You get more opportunities the higher you were drafted. You get a longer leash the more you've been invested in. That's just how it works.

My point with the whole cap space stuff was you could afford to have Joe and young on the same team if you wanted. I hate comparing how structures of a team were built or how so and so ran a team back then. That's like 3 yrs ago lol. s**t is much different now.

Jimmy sat behind Brady on the Patriots. On the 49ers, who was gonna take the job from him?

Who was going to take the job from Lance last year? It's not like Sudfeld or Purdy were outplaying him in TC last year. I just find it odd that people harp on Trey being handed the job last year as if that's unusual for either a highly drafted or highly paid QB.

Jimmy was by most accounts pretty bad in the 2019 TC, but it's not like we ever gave Mullens a chance to even compete for the job even after Mullens had statistically outplayed Jimmy in 2018 (though TBF Jimmy only had 3 games and he was awful in all of them). Jimmy is a better QB than Mullens, but I'm not sure he would have beaten him in a competition coming off the ACL injury. However, Jimmy was being paid too much to not roll with him through his struggles.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
But it was NY it was. They were 7.1 net yds allowed per pass play. NFL worst that year was 7.2
they had to burn pick #3 and iirc pick #37 on DBs to try and fix that mess

It was the 14 ranked pass D.

Do you even know what DVOA is? Do you know what you're even arguing? Do you know what QB rating is and how it's formulated? You run around talking about stats and debating them (when it disproves your narrative) and I don't think you even understand the stats.

as far as burning picks. How about SF? Top 5 pass D the past two seasons (according to FO DVOA) what did they do? "Burned" picks on pass rush and spent top cash on CB last yr…this yr? Spent $85M on pass rush and our first pick was a DB.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
I understand it is a different era, but this isn't how Bill Walsh did it. Throwing such a young project-QB to the wolves fails far more often than not.

You're right it's a much different era with cap requirements.

Even so, cap number shouldn't necessarily factor into playing time. It should always be earned through hard work and competition. The situation this season is far more palatable than last season, where the job was simply handed out. But, they never expected JG to remain with the team. There were a lot of strange factors last season.

Work hard and compete, and let the chips fall where they may. Best player plays.

Everyone says this and points to last year as the exception, but when has this been true on the team when it comes to the starting QB role? Jimmy never had to compete for the starting job once he signed his deal here.

Yeah man it's a bunch of baloney. Same with draft status. You get more opportunities the higher you were drafted. You get a longer leash the more you've been invested in. That's just how it works.

My point with the whole cap space stuff was you could afford to have Joe and young on the same team if you wanted. I hate comparing how structures of a team were built or how so and so ran a team back then. That's like 3 yrs ago lol. s**t is much different now.

Jimmy sat behind Brady on the Patriots. On the 49ers, who was gonna take the job from him?

Who was going to take the job from Lance last year? It's not like Sudfeld or Purdy were outplaying him in TC last year.

Jimmy was by most accounts pretty bad in the 2019 TC, but it's not like we ever gave Mullens a chance to even compete for the job even after Mullens had statistically outplayed Jimmy in 2018 (though TBF Jimmy only had 3 games and he was awful in all of them). Jimmy is a better QB than Mullens, but I'm not sure he would have beaten him in a competition coming off the ACL injury.

None of us can say definitively, but there have been reports that Purdy impressed in TC. I want to say Fred Warner said that.
Really, there will always be a problem of bias in those situations preventing the cream from rising to the top. Stubbornness maybe?

To answer your question, Purdy did take the starting job from Lance, in a way, he played due to injuries to the two ahead of him and outplayed them. The offense increased in points per game. That is why Lance hasn't been handed the starting job this season. It is Purdy's to lose, and much of that based on his recovery. Had Purdy not been hurt, his status wouldn't be in any question.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
But it was NY it was. They were 7.1 net yds allowed per pass play. NFL worst that year was 7.2
they had to burn pick #3 and iirc pick #37 on DBs to try and fix that mess

It was the 14 ranked pass D. Do you even know what DVOA is? Do you know what you're even arguing? Do you know what QB rating is and how it's formulated? You run around talking about stats and debating them (when it disproves your narrative) and I don't think you even understand the stats.

as far as burning picks. How about SF? Top 5 pass D the past two seasons (according to FO DVOA) what did they do? "Burned" picks on pass rush and spent too cash on CB last yr…this yr? Spent $85M on pass rush and our first pick was a DB.

lol now you are comping a pick 3 overall to a round 3
(this referring to HOU drafting 3 overall and us drafting rnd 3 DB)

i think net yds allowed per pass play is a pretty good judge of pass D, yet here you are, arguing in favor of some crap HOU pass D, cuz you want to spin it. We get it NY you are driving the TL train, that doesn't mean you have to fabricate stories about HOU having some pass D to reckon with, that's not reality as of 2021.. maybe now with their high end young guys drafted in 2022. Pitre seems a stud.

DAL imo, one of the most fearsome Ds in football, crazy team speed up front, ballers in coverage, high end coaching, depth, you name it, one of the most feared rushers in the game also. That was night and day when BP was facing them in postseason. I really liked that performance from BP vs DAL. TLs too in his HOU game. But I don't equate those Ds.

Dallas's defense was great in the first half of the season and mediocre in the second half. The numbers reflect that. Regardless, a team with CMC, Kittle, Aiyuk, and Deebo and a top o-line such as this should not struggle against any defense in the modern NFL with the rules being so favorable towards offenses.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
lol now you are comping a pick 3 overall to a round 3
(this referring to HOU drafting 3 overall and us drafting rnd 3 DB)

i think net yds allowed per pass play is a pretty good judge of pass D, yet here you are, arguing in favor of some crap HOU pass D, cuz you want to spin it. We get it NY you are driving the TL train, that doesn't mean you have to fabricate stories about HOU having some pass D to reckon with, that's not reality as of 2021.. maybe now with their high end young guys drafted in 2022. Pitre seems a stud.

DAL imo, one of the most fearsome Ds in football, crazy team speed up front, ballers in coverage, high end coaching, depth, you name it, one of the most feared rushers in the game also. That was night and day when BP was facing them in postseason. I really liked that performance from BP vs DAL. TLs too in his HOU game. But I don't equate those Ds.

How about spending $85M on a passer rusher. How about spending $14M per on a DB? Drafting Drake Jackson etc etc love how you leave that out lol. Shocker. Crazy the Texans moved up for the best player in the draft lol.

You call me out for finding a stat that backs up my point. Well what the f**k are you doing right now?! you don't even know what DVOA is and yet you try to argue it lol. You toss around QB rating and you don't even know what the stat is or how it comes about.

If you actually paid attention you'd see I'm not driving any train. You're so butthurt he didn't turn into a MVP after 30 passing attempts, that you get mad at someone else who has SAID all they want to see is him actually fail before labeling him anything. Small samples sizes. You like others are so premature in your stances. I mean that's you in here.

Your debates lack SO MUCH objectivity, it's pointless to even talk to you in here. So I'm done my man. Feel free to comment on my post, I will not be having any more discussions with you. Not until you can have an objective conversation.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I'd say I'd have a 99% chance of being right that if Brock goes 6 or 7 games playing horribly and we're not winning that he will put Trey or Sam in.

Oh stop it lol. I'm sure you were 99% right that Jimmy would be inconsistent, injury prone, have tunnel vision after that 2017 season lol. I'm sure you thought Josh allen was gonna be the face of EA sports after his first 170 passing attempts his rookie yr. I'm sure you thought Hurts would be one of the highest paid players after watching his first 170 passing attempts too

people tossing out claims like this after a ridiculously small sample size is part of the issue I have with all of it.

Okay, so my statement above is on what I know about SHANAHAN, not the QB. It doesn't matter if Jesus of Nazarath was his QB. If the starting guy goes nearly half a season playing badly, and we're losing, he's going to go ahead and put in someone else. Remember, Shanahan was one game away from benching Jimmy G in 2021, according to both rumors and what he alluded to himself.