The "Money Needed for Deebo and Bosa" Fallacy

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Ruixx:
Yeah that's the goal but I think this is a business, they put so many picks in Trey, he's the future. I like Jimmy but unless he was the sole reason like a Brady that they have won this year (which he isn't, they have a lot of good players of course) he is out. If Jimmy takes a huge paycut, they could keep him another year max but other than that he's out. And as a fan I do hope that is what happens because I like to think they didn't waste their draft picks. It will be a huge disappointment if Trey doesn't work out. And I hope Jimmy has a lot of success on another team.

I want Lance to be our FQB for 15+ years. I am concerned that if Jimmy wins a SB and we ship him out, our fan base will have unrealistic expectations for him, at least for a year or two.

I also subscribe to the notion that a rookie QB deal with a majority of $$ spent on D is the surest way to win.

I think this fanbase has unrealistic expectations of everything, based on the franchises success and the fans' history of attacking players hard so it's a safe bet that will happen. I hope SF is strong enough to stay with Trey through the bumps until they have a factual and complete account if he will be a franchise leader or not and block out the noise.
Actually what's happening right now is a good indication they have the right people on the top who don't cave to pressure because they said they would stick with Jimmy and they actually are.

I'll let AB the salary cap guy here destroy this one. But once again 0% chance he stays.

Originally posted by Blake_Fever:
Right now, it looks like the 49ers have $11 million in cap space for 2022: overthecap.com/salary-cap/san-francisco-49ers/

Many people are saying "SF can't keep Jimmy because the money is needed for extensions for Deebo and Bosa."

That's just not true.

Stay with me here, because the distinction I make is important.

Deebo is under contract for 2022 and Bosa, with the 5th year option, is under contract through 2023. So, any extension can be in the form of a new money/new years extension starting in 2023 for Deebo and 2024 for Bosa.

Sure, SF can add some money to 2022, maybe specifically for Deebo since his cap hit is only $3M next year, but the vast majority will count toward future years when the cap will explode.

Yes, SF will need cap space for DJ Jones, Tomlinson and other FAs they may want to keep or sign; but saying the big money extensions for Deebo and Bosa are the driving force for shedding Jimmy's contract is just not true.

Facts, they're kinda important.

Blake_Fever

That $11M cap space figure is only for 32 players and a chunk of that is going to be eaten up by 21 more players. Sure, they're smaller cap hits, but even if their cap hit was $500k, 21 players at $500k each is $10.5M. That $11M is going to disappear very quickly.

I have no doubt in my mind that, if we wanted Jimmy, Deebo, and Bosa here next year, they'll make it work. But Deebo and Bosa figure to command HUGE extensions when it's their time. Deebo just got 1st Team All-Pro and is our BEST player this season. Bosa was robbed of an All-Pro nod and plays a premium position at DE, and we all know what he does.

Straw man argument

We will pay Deebo and Bosa

The question is whether we have 20+ million in JG money to fill out the rest of the roster or we have minimum wage scrubs

JG $ is basically to pay Greenlaw + DJ Jones and others

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by Ruixx:
The driving force for shredding his contact is that he is not the long term QB in SF, Trey Lance will start next year as they gave the farm away to get him so why would we continue to pay Jimmy starting QB money? And I think that's pretty universally recognized. People may say it will also help with extensions for others and of course having more money helps with that, the more money we have the more people we can resign.
And honestly what difference does it make? Jimmy is gone after this year, bank on it.

If we win the SB i wouldnt be so sure

I honestly don't think it matters, they didn't invest all those picks in Trey for him not to start. If anything they hope that if Jimmy wins it will increase his trade value.

They also did not necessarily invest all those trades expecting a starter in year 1 or even year 2, Jed said that. I do hope Trey starts, but to say that it is somehow "impossible" that Jimmy is the starting QB next year as many members are saying all around this forum is factually incorrect as the OP has shown.

Ok let's put a bet on it (seriously), let's see what happens. This is just really a no-brainer to me based on Jimmy's play (fine but not exceptional) and what they gave up to get Trey. Also I would like to say I don't think it's impossible BUT he would have to take a huge paycut to stay. I don't think they want to keep paying him that top shelf money.

Ok, I'll bet if the Niners win the superbowl, Jimmy G will be the QB in 2022

Sounds good, let's remember it.

What's the bet, bragging rights? How about something with some teeth, like $50 to the other person's favorite charity? Terms:
1. Niners must win Superbowl
2. Jimmy G begins 2022 as starter, does not need to end season as starter

I think there was only one scenario where Jimmy returns and that's if Kyle feels Trey is just not ready.

Originally posted by Blake_Fever:
Right now, it looks like the 49ers have $11 million in cap space for 2022: overthecap.com/salary-cap/san-francisco-49ers/

Many people are saying "SF can't keep Jimmy because the money is needed for extensions for Deebo and Bosa."

That's just not true.

Stay with me here, because the distinction I make is important.

Deebo is under contract for 2022 and Bosa, with the 5th year option, is under contract through 2023. So, any extension can be in the form of a new money/new years extension starting in 2023 for Deebo and 2024 for Bosa.

Sure, SF can add some money to 2022, maybe specifically for Deebo since his cap hit is only $3M next year, but the vast majority will count toward future years when the cap will explode.

Yes, SF will need cap space for DJ Jones, Tomlinson and other FAs they may want to keep or sign; but saying the big money extensions for Deebo and Bosa are the driving force for shedding Jimmy's contract is just not true.

Facts, they're kinda important.

Blake_Fever

Depends how much you want to backload Deebo's contract....also it's not just about those two (even though they won't be stepping on the field without new deals) We're losing multiple starters in the secondary, losing 5 DL, got both LBers coming up on deals, Laken should get paid, right side of the line is a question mark..and you'd think they'd like to upgrade add depth regardless.

Also they don't have the high end draft capital to offset the cap restraints. Jimmy is at his peak worth in a trade, the market is bleak at QB and you're getting maybe a comp 3rd in 2023 if he leaves via FA next yr.

Also why wouldn't Jimmy want to cash in after this season? Would he want to go through another yr of Lance breathing down his neck every time he tosses a INT? I think it's best for everyone involved to get whatever you can for Jimmy and work with him and his agent to find a good team that is willing to give him an extension. Once lance was drafted the decision was pretty much made....FWIW Nick Wagoner said the other day that the sources he's talked to in SF have said they're all in on Lance and they feel even better about the pick after seeing him develop throughout the yr.

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by Ruixx:
The driving force for shredding his contact is that he is not the long term QB in SF, Trey Lance will start next year as they gave the farm away to get him so why would we continue to pay Jimmy starting QB money? And I think that's pretty universally recognized. People may say it will also help with extensions for others and of course having more money helps with that, the more money we have the more people we can resign.
And honestly what difference does it make? Jimmy is gone after this year, bank on it.

If we win the SB i wouldnt be so sure

I honestly don't think it matters, they didn't invest all those picks in Trey for him not to start. If anything they hope that if Jimmy wins it will increase his trade value.

They also did not necessarily invest all those trades expecting a starter in year 1 or even year 2, Jed said that. I do hope Trey starts, but to say that it is somehow "impossible" that Jimmy is the starting QB next year as many members are saying all around this forum is factually incorrect as the OP has shown.

Ok let's put a bet on it (seriously), let's see what happens. This is just really a no-brainer to me based on Jimmy's play (fine but not exceptional) and what they gave up to get Trey. Also I would like to say I don't think it's impossible BUT he would have to take a huge paycut to stay. I don't think they want to keep paying him that top shelf money.

Ok, I'll bet if the Niners win the superbowl, Jimmy G will be the QB in 2022

Sounds good, let's remember it.

What's the bet, bragging rights? How about something with some teeth, like $50 to the other person's favorite charity? Terms:
1. Niners must win Superbowl
2. Jimmy G begins 2022 as starter, does not need to end season as starter

3. Jimmy G does not take a paycut of any kind

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Blake_Fever:
Right now, it looks like the 49ers have $11 million in cap space for 2022: overthecap.com/salary-cap/san-francisco-49ers/

Many people are saying "SF can't keep Jimmy because the money is needed for extensions for Deebo and Bosa."

That's just not true.

Stay with me here, because the distinction I make is important.

Deebo is under contract for 2022 and Bosa, with the 5th year option, is under contract through 2023. So, any extension can be in the form of a new money/new years extension starting in 2023 for Deebo and 2024 for Bosa.

Sure, SF can add some money to 2022, maybe specifically for Deebo since his cap hit is only $3M next year, but the vast majority will count toward future years when the cap will explode.

Yes, SF will need cap space for DJ Jones, Tomlinson and other FAs they may want to keep or sign; but saying the big money extensions for Deebo and Bosa are the driving force for shedding Jimmy's contract is just not true.

Facts, they're kinda important.

Blake_Fever

Depends how much you want to backload Deebo's contract....also it's not just about those two (even though they won't be stepping on the field without new deals) We're losing multiple starters in the secondary, losing 5 DL, got both LBers coming up on deals, Laken should get paid, right side of the line is a question mark..and you'd think they'd like to upgrade add depth regardless.

Also they don't have the high end draft capital to offset the cap restraints. Jimmy is at his peak worth in a trade, the market is bleak at QB and you're getting maybe a comp 3rd in 2023 if he leaves via FA next yr.

Also why wouldn't Jimmy want to cash in after this season? Would he want to go through another yr of Lance breathing down his neck every time he tosses a INT? I think it's best for everyone involved to get whatever you can for Jimmy and work with him and his agent to find a good team that is willing to give him an extension. Once lance was drafted the decision was pretty much made....FWIW Nick Wagoner said the other day that the sources he's talked to in SF have said they're all in on Lance and they feel even better about the pick after seeing him develop throughout the yr.

x100, right on the money. And I have to really give kudos to Kyle and Lynch because, based on how everyone was treated and what they have been saying this season, that's the goal for everyone including Jimmy and it is the reason it wasn't a massive distraction this year (I mean it was of course a talking point but Jimmy could have been making a whole lot of noise and he was all class and the team was supportive of him).

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by Ruixx:
The driving force for shredding his contact is that he is not the long term QB in SF, Trey Lance will start next year as they gave the farm away to get him so why would we continue to pay Jimmy starting QB money? And I think that's pretty universally recognized. People may say it will also help with extensions for others and of course having more money helps with that, the more money we have the more people we can resign.
And honestly what difference does it make? Jimmy is gone after this year, bank on it.

If we win the SB i wouldnt be so sure

I honestly don't think it matters, they didn't invest all those picks in Trey for him not to start. If anything they hope that if Jimmy wins it will increase his trade value.

They also did not necessarily invest all those trades expecting a starter in year 1 or even year 2, Jed said that. I do hope Trey starts, but to say that it is somehow "impossible" that Jimmy is the starting QB next year as many members are saying all around this forum is factually incorrect as the OP has shown.

Ok let's put a bet on it (seriously), let's see what happens. This is just really a no-brainer to me based on Jimmy's play (fine but not exceptional) and what they gave up to get Trey. Also I would like to say I don't think it's impossible BUT he would have to take a huge paycut to stay. I don't think they want to keep paying him that top shelf money.

Ok, I'll bet if the Niners win the superbowl, Jimmy G will be the QB in 2022

Sounds good, let's remember it.

What's the bet, bragging rights? How about something with some teeth, like $50 to the other person's favorite charity? Terms:
1. Niners must win Superbowl
2. Jimmy G begins 2022 as starter, does not need to end season as starter

3. Jimmy G does not take a paycut of any kind

Nope. Not agreeing to that

Originally posted by Oilcan:
I think there was only one scenario where Jimmy returns and that's if Kyle feels Trey is just not ready.

If Treys not ready then we wasted alot of draft capital on a "project".

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Oilcan:
I think there was only one scenario where Jimmy returns and that's if Kyle feels Trey is just not ready.

If Treys not ready then we wasted alot of draft capital on a "project".

Some people have been saying that for quite some time...

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Oilcan:
I think there was only one scenario where Jimmy returns and that's if Kyle feels Trey is just not ready.

If Treys not ready then we wasted alot of draft capital on a "project".

Some people have been saying that for quite some time...

Exactly so they aren't going to wait much longer.

Originally posted by Ruixx:

The driving force for shredding his contact is that he is not the long term QB in SF, Trey Lance will start next year as they gave the farm away to get him so why would we continue to pay Jimmy starting QB money? And I think that's pretty universally recognized. People may say it will also help with extensions for others and of course having more money helps with that, the more money we have the more people we can resign.
And honestly what difference does it make? Jimmy is gone after this year, bank on it.

If they win the SB with him they may be reluctant to make a change.

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by Ruixx:
The driving force for shredding his contact is that he is not the long term QB in SF, Trey Lance will start next year as they gave the farm away to get him so why would we continue to pay Jimmy starting QB money? And I think that's pretty universally recognized. People may say it will also help with extensions for others and of course having more money helps with that, the more money we have the more people we can resign.
And honestly what difference does it make? Jimmy is gone after this year, bank on it.

If we win the SB i wouldnt be so sure

I honestly don't think it matters, they didn't invest all those picks in Trey for him not to start. If anything they hope that if Jimmy wins it will increase his trade value.

They also did not necessarily invest all those trades expecting a starter in year 1 or even year 2, Jed said that. I do hope Trey starts, but to say that it is somehow "impossible" that Jimmy is the starting QB next year as many members are saying all around this forum is factually incorrect as the OP has shown.

Ok let's put a bet on it (seriously), let's see what happens. This is just really a no-brainer to me based on Jimmy's play (fine but not exceptional) and what they gave up to get Trey. Also I would like to say I don't think it's impossible BUT he would have to take a huge paycut to stay. I don't think they want to keep paying him that top shelf money.

Ok, I'll bet if the Niners win the superbowl, Jimmy G will be the QB in 2022

Sounds good, let's remember it.

What's the bet, bragging rights? How about something with some teeth, like $50 to the other person's favorite charity? Terms:
1. Niners must win Superbowl
2. Jimmy G begins 2022 as starter, does not need to end season as starter

3. Jimmy G does not take a paycut of any kind

Nope. Not agreeing to that

Ok I will give you 1 and 2 but only for $25.