What will Jimmy's trade value be in the offseason?

Originally posted by Waterbear:

We need to call in some favors. What's the point of spreading our coaching tree all over the NFL including the other conference if these former staffers don't bail us out

Get Saleh on the phone tell him if he wants a job back next offseason he's got to do something for JG now.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
I watched every one Mac's college snaps, all of the Pats preseason games, and around 12 of their regular season games. Do you know why the narrative going into the draft was that Mac Jones was pro ready? It's because that's what his college tape screamed out. You saw a QB who's fundamentals were polished, who exhibited great accuracy and decision making. His downside was physical limitations. Lack of a great arm, lack of an ability to threaten a defense with his legs. That's where the draft narrative of low ceiling, limited player, was born.

What did Cam Newton do in the preseason or even in his first season in NE to demonstrate he was playing the position at a higher level than Mac Jones last season? Instead of pretending I don't know what I'm talking about, support your statement that Bill Belicheck chose Mac's development over the better player with an argument based around their abilities at the time.

I'm also not relying on media or other fans analysis of the 49ers roster. Going into the season I had them behind the Rams and the Bucs and thought a comparison with AZ could go either way. In your quickness to imply I don't know what other teams have on their roster, you mentioned Seattle and said Green Bay was clearly superior. Let's talk about Green Bay's clearly superior roster.

Lining up the 49ers roster against Green Bay, from last season, I see Green Bay having a talent advantage at QB, RB, and in the secondary. The 49ers have superior weapons in the pass game, the superior offensive line, defensive line, linebackers and better depth pretty much across the board. Every year the Packers beat up on a weak NFC north, and get beat in the playoffs by superior teams that are battle tested. 2019 49ers, 2020 Bucs, 2021 49ers.

I find it funny that you make the argument that the 49ers were what they were at 10-7 yet go on to speculate on a bunch of what if scenarios to elevate other teams beyond what they in fact were. What if the 49ers don't block that punt against GB? What if Jameis doesn't get injured? It stands to reason you shouldn't what if only when it's convenient for your argument. What if George Kittle catches a potential touchdown pass that hits him in the chest early in that Packers game. What if Jimmy G starts the AZ game in AZ instead of Trey Lance? What if Mostert doesn't go down in the 1st half of the 1st game of the season? We can do this all day.

The 49ers went to the NFC championship with a broken, less than average, QB winning 3 straight elimination games on the road *against 3 division winners. Lost a coin-flip game in a 4th straight road game against a division winner in the title game*. It stands to reason they have pretty good players everywhere, and it's not a secret.

How do you explain Mac's early season play (td:tov = 7:7) and the Pats 2-4 start?

I mention Seattle as in "can you even name half their starters?" I can't. How are we going to judge rosters when most of us don't know who plays on the Saints OL? Or why do you think the 49ers LB group is better than the Packers? It's a 3-4 scheme, but LB De'Vondre Campbell was a 1st team all-pro, Rashan Gary had 9.5 sacks, and Preston Smith had 9 sacks. Krys Barnes is at least he's healthy (vs Greenlaw)? To me they have 3 high end LB's to our 1 (4 if you count Za'Darius for '21). I think the 9ers DL is better, but Kenny Clark is a perennial pro bowler who is routinely voted by players as a top 100 player. I don't know much about Dean Lowry, but his #'s (5 sacks, 5 tfl, 9 qb hits, 42 pressures) are comparable to Arik's (6 sacks, 7 tfl, 14 qb hits, 29 pressures). Packers OL was 5th best in pass block win rate & 4th in run block win rate. 49ers were 14th & 18th. They didn't perform like a superior OL.

Guess I'm not being clear, but the idea behind the "what-ifs" is that the '21 9ers, like most wildcard teams, could've easily been out of the playoffs. They were a 3rd place team facing a 4th place schedule and NFL history of wildcard teams who make playoff runs has had 5 out of 7 fail to make the playoffs & a 6th (Titans) barely made it and got bounced early.

Why has that been? The extra wear & tear of 3 road games takes a toll & you end up picking at a worse spot in the draft than where your team talent would be. History is against them and they are going w/ inexperienced players at LG, RT, Nickel, & S. The 9ers solution is hoping Lance is a clear upgrade over Jimmy.

A ham sandwich.

Originally posted by json7:
How do you explain Mac's early season play (td:tov = 7:7) and the Pats 2-4 start?

I mention Seattle as in "can you even name half their starters?" I can't. How are we going to judge rosters when most of us don't know who plays on the Saints OL? Or why do you think the 49ers LB group is better than the Packers? It's a 3-4 scheme, but LB De'Vondre Campbell was a 1st team all-pro, Rashan Gary had 9.5 sacks, and Preston Smith had 9 sacks. Krys Barnes is at least he's healthy (vs Greenlaw)? To me they have 3 high end LB's to our 1 (4 if you count Za'Darius for '21). I think the 9ers DL is better, but Kenny Clark is a perennial pro bowler who is routinely voted by players as a top 100 player. I don't know much about Dean Lowry, but his #'s (5 sacks, 5 tfl, 9 qb hits, 42 pressures) are comparable to Arik's (6 sacks, 7 tfl, 14 qb hits, 29 pressures). Packers OL was 5th best in pass block win rate & 4th in run block win rate. 49ers were 14th & 18th. They didn't perform like a superior OL.

Guess I'm not being clear, but the idea behind the "what-ifs" is that the '21 9ers, like most wildcard teams, could've easily been out of the playoffs. They were a 3rd place team facing a 4th place schedule and NFL history of wildcard teams who make playoff runs has had 5 out of 7 fail to make the playoffs & a 6th (Titans) barely made it and got bounced early.

Why has that been? The extra wear & tear of 3 road games takes a toll & you end up picking at a worse spot in the draft than where your team talent would be. History is against them and they are going w/ inexperienced players at LG, RT, Nickel, & S. The 9ers solution is hoping Lance is a clear upgrade over Jimmy.

I think it's pretty clear you didn't watch much of the Patriots, even though you attempted to tell me I didn't know anything about it (Mac and the Pats) and suggested I go watch their preseason games and first 6 of the regular season. First of all it's no secret why you picked the first 6 and stopped right before the Pats rattled off 7 straight wins. Secondly, you still haven't made an argument for starting Cam Newton after claiming Mac Jones was given the job because his development was a priority, instead of being the better player. You're avoiding it like the plague and for good reason.

Let's just go with your 7:7 Mac Jones turnover ratio through the first 6 games as your main piece of evidence for claiming Jones wasn't playing well. Right off the bat your numbers are slightly off. Mac had 7 TDs and 6 TOs. Regardless he was playing very well through his first 6 games, especially for a rookie. He had one very bad game against a very good defense in the New Orleans Saints where he threw 3 interceptions to skew that number. That doesn't reflect his performance across those 6 games. He was very efficient in all but arguably one of the other 5 games. Go look at those statistics again. Look at the news articles and football publications (like PFF) every week after each of them. Watch the games. In the other five games his lowest completion percentage was 66 percent. In 4 of the games it was well over 70. His YPA through 6 games was 7 yards plus. He threw 6 TDs to 3 INTs.

Your 2nd piece of evidence was the Pats record at 2-4. Take the opener. They lost a 1 point game to the division rival Dolphins in which they were in position to kick a potential game winning field goal but Damien Harris fumbled the game away:
https://www.patspulpit.com/2021/9/13/22671051/new-england-patriots-mac-jones-shines-in-tough-week-1-loss-to-miami-dolphins

They lost a blowout game to the Saints. They lost a 2 point game to the defending Super Bowl champs and they lost a 6 point game 29-35 to the Dallas Cowboys. If you think the Patriots were beating these teams coming into the season you probably were overrating the Pats. That said, all winnable games besides the Saints and Mac played well in all of them outside of that Saints game again.

To bring it back to Cam, take a look at his 2020 season. Started 15 games, threw for less than 2500 yards and 8 TDs/10 INTs. If you cite 7:7 as an indicator of poor play for a rookie over his first 6 games, good luck arguing for Cam. Did the Pats team improve a bit offensively between 2020 and 2021. Sure. They added Hunter Henry and Kendrick Bourne to highlight the additions. Not exactly world beaters and Jones looked like the better player in the preseason.

Either way Mac had the best rookie season of the QBs. He finished 13th among all QBs as graded by PFF. He was clearly 'pro ready' as most of what everyone saw on tape in terms of his strengths were on display in his rookie campaign. He was the easiest projection in the class. He's going to get better too, and the team is going to improve around him.

-------

To the 49ers roster argument. I am aware of the Seahawks roster. I can name half of their starters easily. I appreciate your admission that you can't. There's honestly nothing wrong with that as people have better things to do with their time than follow the NFL like a part time job and not get paid for it. That said, I don't know why people argue when their opinions are uninformed. It's effectively guessing. You're not going to have a great idea either simply by looking at stats or ranks. A better idea than doing nothing, but still not good enough.

You seem really hung up on judging the 49ers season and future by their first 8 games of 2021. They were a 3rd place team with a 4th place schedule and could have easily been out of the playoffs you say. They also could have also been 12-5, division winners, and the 2nd seed in the NFC with just a little bit of luck in the other direction. Every team has what-ifs. What-ifs aside they were the runner up in the NFC. The 2nd time in 3 seasons they were in the conference title game, with the same foundational players. They are a proven commodity. I have no interest in evaluating the 49ers team using historical trends in the NFL (like the history of other Wild Card teams) because every team has their own roster, coaches, and circumstances. The 49ers were widely viewed as a contender going into the year, with a top roster in the NFC. I agreed with those assessments based on my own work, and that's exactly what they ended up being.

For next season I'll wait until after the draft and the final free agency period before I really try to predict what the 22 49ers will look like. I want to see what Trey Lance looks like because if it's anything like last year and he starts, we'll be in trouble. I understand other fans concerns in losing a couple of starters and other depth pieces. We're not the only team with a changing roster. That clearly superior Packers team lost DaVante Adams and ZaDarius Smith. Not good for a team already too dependent on getting MVP performances every single week from their QB to win. The Seahawks lost Russell Wilson and Wagner sending their already weak roster into a full rebuild. Etc. Etc.

Another burner account. Mods need to do a few IP checks and bang that hammer.

Originally posted by NDSU:
Another burner account. Mods need to do a few IP checks and bang that hammer.

A 10 year old account that has like 10 posts prior lol. These guys are so desperate to be heard. It's like they think they are gonna change anyone's mind but instead they just come across as sad.

^^^been an interesting conversation, gents. 2 sides well and thoughtfully presented. Thx

Originally posted by NDSU:
Another burner account. Mods need to do a few IP checks and bang that hammer.

I'm 100% convinced SmokeyJoe and RackOfRibs are the same guy.

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
I'm 100% convinced SmokeyJoe and RackOfRibs are the same guy.

You'd be wrong. I don't post here frequently but you would see my thoughts scattered about here and there going back to my sign up date. I think I made one post during the season last year, and probably like 10-20 around last years draft. I used to post at the other board until the team shut it down, and I post on other sites with general NFL fans.

I'm sure most of my other posts were around the Jim Harbaugh- Tomsula fiasco.

I have no alts. Just very little interest in gatekeeping homers.

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by NDSU:
Another burner account. Mods need to do a few IP checks and bang that hammer.

I'm 100% convinced SmokeyJoe and RackOfRibs are the same guy.

Huh. Thought they were restaurant chains.

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Hahaha

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by NDSU:
Another burner account. Mods need to do a few IP checks and bang that hammer.

I'm 100% convinced SmokeyJoe and RackOfRibs are the same guy.

Wanna bet accounts? What would I need an alt for? I speak my mind. This place is so f'kin weird with this everyone is an alt paranoia.

Originally posted by RackofRibs49:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by NDSU:
Another burner account. Mods need to do a few IP checks and bang that hammer.

I'm 100% convinced SmokeyJoe and RackOfRibs are the same guy.

Wanna bet accounts? What would I need an alt for? I speak my mind. This place is so f'kin weird with this everyone is an alt paranoia.

How exactly is that paranoia?

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by RackofRibs49:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by NDSU:
Another burner account. Mods need to do a few IP checks and bang that hammer.

I'm 100% convinced SmokeyJoe and RackOfRibs are the same guy.

Wanna bet accounts? What would I need an alt for? I speak my mind. This place is so f'kin weird with this everyone is an alt paranoia.

How exactly is that paranoia?

You're 100% certain but you just fabricated some fantasy out if thin air. Why?!(paranoid)It's happened before too it's...so...weird... Lol

I'm like a coping mechanism or something. I don't get it. It's creepy.