Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Where we at in the cycle of Trey today? Is he ready or not ready?

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Who cares how much money Bill spent in FA? Who cares how good or bad the defenses were? Herbert has the luxury of having 2x #1 receivers at his disposal. While Jones had a pair of number 2's/3's. Its not an apples to apples comparison. If Jones had Allen for 14 games and Williams for 15 games his rookie season, there is no reason to believe his performance wouldn't have been better. Maybe even on the same level as Herberts. To believe that the talent around the QB doesn't matter as long as you have a top 5 defense is stupid.

Are you serious right now lol? If you don't think having a top 2 D helps a QB then this convo is over. You saw what happened when the defense stubbled down the road forced Mac to do more. It wasn't pretty.

mike Williams is NOT a #1 WR. I'll disagree with that.

Your bias with Jones is apparent with the Herbert slander. There isn't a f**king single person in the league that would take Jones or Herbert. Toss Jones in LA in 2020 with that trash OL and he's not coming close to doing what Herbert did.

This debate is going nowhere.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Yeah it's silly to temper a players skill set since it has nothing to do with how effective a player really is.

Jamarcus Russell had a great skill set. How did that work out for him?

That's why I talk about the intangibles as well…Russell most certainly did not have those and from everything we've heard/read Lance does.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Who cares how much money Bill spent in FA? Who cares how good or bad the defenses were? Herbert has the luxury of having 2x #1 receivers at his disposal. While Jones had a pair of number 2's/3's. Its not an apples to apples comparison. If Jones had Allen for 14 games and Williams for 15 games his rookie season, there is no reason to believe his performance wouldn't have been better. Maybe even on the same level as Herberts. To believe that the talent around the QB doesn't matter as long as you have a top 5 defense is stupid.

Are you serious right now lol? If you don't think having a top 2 D helps a QB then this convo is over. You saw what happened when the defense stubbled down the road forced Mac to do more. It wasn't pretty.

mike Williams is NOT a #1 WR. I'll disagree with that.

Your bias with Jones is apparent with the Herbert slander. There isn't a f**king single person in the league that would take Jones or Herbert. Toss Jones in LA in 2020 with that trash OL and he's not coming close to doing what Herbert did.

This debate is going nowhere.

Obviously its not going anywhere. You seem to believe that a rookie QB can put up 30 TD's and 10 Int's or less with guys like Bourne and Meyers so long as the team fields a top 5 defense. By the way, Rivers last season with the Chargers, Williams put up over 1k yards and averaged over 20 yards per reception. When has Bourne or Meyers put up those types of numbers?

You also keep bringing up offensive line. Herbert was sacked 32 times in his rookie season. Jones was sacked 28 times last season. Not much of a difference.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
IMO it's been far more common in here to see posts like, "Lance can't beat players to the edge, he can't layer the football, he's "not ready", Lance was the worst QB in the draft, and so on.

My stance is that we should keep the same energy with those stances since Lance has yet to prove anything really.

Granted I'm talking specifically about the Webzone maybe Reddit or other forums are more homerish on Lance.

All I've takes about is skill set and intangibles. The rest of the stuff is hard to address because imo we don't have much of a sample size to figure out what Is what good or bad.

Yeah it's silly to temper a players skill set since it has nothing to do with how effective a player really is.

Jamarcus Russell had a great skill set. How did that work out for him?

Is it alright to be excited about Trey's skill set AND everything we've heard about him as a person? Seems his intelligence, work ethic and personality would set him in a group not occupied by Jamarcus Russell.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Obviously its not going anywhere. You seem to believe that a rookie QB can put up 30 TD's and 10 Int's or less with guys like Bourne and Meyers so long as the team fields a top 5 defense. By the way, Rivers last season with the Chargers, Williams put up over 1k yards and averaged over 20 yards per reception. When has Bourne or Meyers put up those types of numbers?

You also keep bringing up offensive line. Herbert was sacked 32 times in his rookie season. Jones was sacked 28 times last season. Not much of a difference.

Nope I didn't say that. I said I'm looking more at what I watch from a week to week basis. How a team actually wins games and how they called the offense for the QB. Jones was a game manager which is fine. That's who he is and imo will always be.

again you're taking a obscure stat like sacks saying that's what makes an OL good or bad. PFF had the chargers as the WORST OL in the NFL in 2020. NE top 10 this past yr….Herbert was constantly under pressure and on the move (I believe he had the one of the best under pressure passing ratings as well). Having great WRs means nothing if you can't pass block or have a QB that makes s**t happen when things get muddy.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

Like I said if you don't think having a great defense could help a QB then you're lying to yourself. The past 5 games shows just that in NE. Playing with a lead and moving the chains is what freaking Jimmy did here. Once the playoffs happened and we needed plays from our QB

tossing in a better WR is great for any QB. It's something NE never really did for most of Bill's time there. Will Mac benefit from it absolutely…I'm not naive. I'm also saying the way they played football not letting Mac do more then he's capable of helped him….when other things around him fell apart, like the D or running game, for the most part he couldn't step up. Will that change who knows, but that's what happened I watched the f**king games.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Obviously its not going anywhere. You seem to believe that a rookie QB can put up 30 TD's and 10 Int's or less with guys like Bourne and Meyers so long as the team fields a top 5 defense. By the way, Rivers last season with the Chargers, Williams put up over 1k yards and averaged over 20 yards per reception. When has Bourne or Meyers put up those types of numbers?

You also keep bringing up offensive line. Herbert was sacked 32 times in his rookie season. Jones was sacked 28 times last season. Not much of a difference.

Nope I didn't say that. I said I'm looking more at what I watch from a week to week basis. How a team actually wins games and how they called the offense for the QB. Jones was a game manager which is fine. That's who he is and imo will always be.

again you're taking a obscure stat like sacks saying that's what makes an OL good or bad. PFF had the chargers as the WORST OL in the NFL in 2020. NE top 10 this past yr….Herbert was constantly under pressure and on the move (I believe he had the one of the best under pressure passing ratings as well). Having great WRs means nothing if you can't pass block or have a QB that makes s**t happen when things get muddy.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

Like I said if you don't think having a great defense could help a QB then you're lying to yourself. The past 5 games shows just that in NE. Playing with a lead and moving the chains is what freaking Jimmy did here. Once the playoffs happened and we needed plays from our QB

tossing in a better WR is great for any QB. It's something NE never really did for most of Bill's time there. Will Mac benefit from it absolutely…I'm not naive. I'm also saying the way they played football not letting Mac do more then he's capable of helped him….when other things around him fell apart, like the D or running game, for the most part he couldn't step up. Will that change who knows, but that's what happened I watched the f**king games.

Well not everyone is Tom Brady but even he had some #1 WR's and decent TE's throughout his time in NE. To the contrary of what you just stated. Having a WR who can consistently beat man coverage helps the QB and O line tremendously. Having a WR who can consistently get separation can absolutely make a QB's and O line's job a lot easier.

Do you believe that 49ers O line would be on that top 10 list if we didn't have Deebo and short pass after short pass Jimmy throwing him the ball?

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Well not everyone is Tom Brady but even he had some #1 WR's and decent TE's throughout his time in NE. To the contrary of what you just stated. Having a WR who can consistently beat man coverage helps the QB and O line tremendously. Having a WR who can consistently get separation can absolutely make a QB's and O line's job a lot easier.

Lol love how you left out everything about the OLs and how s**tty LA's actually was vs NE.

but yes Mac Jones is a WR#1 away from being better than Herbert apparently to you lol.

I can't believe you're trying to debate Herbert vs Jones….you're the one who's using stats to delegate how good a player is and now you're poo pooing Herbert's rookie yr all the same. Don't talk to be about being bias man.

convo done.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Do you believe that 49ers O line would be on that top 10 list if we didn't have Deebo and short pass after short pass Jimmy throwing him the ball?

That NE OL was top 4 in 2020 with cam Newton

Mac Jones is mediocre

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Well not everyone is Tom Brady but even he had some #1 WR's and decent TE's throughout his time in NE. To the contrary of what you just stated. Having a WR who can consistently beat man coverage helps the QB and O line tremendously. Having a WR who can consistently get separation can absolutely make a QB's and O line's job a lot easier.

Lol love how you left out everything about the OLs and how s**tty LA's actually was vs NE.

but yes Mac Jones is a WR#1 away from being better than Herbert apparently to you lol.

I can't believe you're trying to debate Herbert vs Jones….you're the one who's using stats to delegate how good a player is and now you're poo pooing Herbert's rookie yr all the same. Don't talk to be about being bias man.

convo done.

I am not poo pooing, lol, Herbert's rookie year. He had one of the best rookie seasons for an NFL QB. I am simply saying that Mac Jones had a decent season for a rookie QB and it may have been even better if he had similar weapons as Herbert. Remember, I din't bring up Herbert first, you did.

Yes. I am using stats to make my arguments. Stats would be evidence and your "observations" would not be in a court of law.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Mac Jones is mediocre

Sir you are in the TL thread. Mediocre Jones has his own thread.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I am not poo pooing, lol, Herbert's rookie year. He had one of the best rookie seasons for an NFL QB. I am simply saying that Mac Jones had a decent season for a rookie QB and it may have been even better if he had similar weapons as Herbert. Remember, I din't bring up Herbert first, you did.

Yes. I am using stats to make my arguments. Stats would be evidence and your "observations" would not be in a court of law.

I brought up Herbert because he along with a handful of other rookies weren't in your article. Yes you have poo pooed him and even stated Jones might have been better in that same situation in 2020 which I will completely disagree with.

Stats are not the end all be all if a player was good or not. Stats don't show plays like this




(there's a laundry list of plays from him)

Look I don't think Mac stinks, he's a game manager and can run your offense. Good processer with good mechanics. Again very similar to Andy Dalton.

but man this is just the buffalo game and down the stretch it wasn't good play overall from him....if that was Lance people would be having a field day.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I am not poo pooing, lol, Herbert's rookie year. He had one of the best rookie seasons for an NFL QB. I am simply saying that Mac Jones had a decent season for a rookie QB and it may have been even better if he had similar weapons as Herbert. Remember, I din't bring up Herbert first, you did.

Yes. I am using stats to make my arguments. Stats would be evidence and your "observations" would not be in a court of law.

I brought up Herbert because he along with a handful of other rookies weren't in your article. Yes you have poo pooed him and even stated Jones might have been better in that same situation in 2020 which I will completely disagree with.

Stats are not the end all be all if a player was good or not. Stats don't show plays like this

The Chargers, picking 13th overall, had the worst run blocking and the 3rd worst pass blocking offensive line in the NFL

Justin Herbert faced pressure on nearly 37% of his drop backs and was sacked 31 times

The OROY still scored 36 total TDs as a rookiepic.twitter.com/w7m1MVm3id

— Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) April 5, 2021

Look I don't think Mac stinks, he's a game manager and can run your offense. Good processer with good mechanics. Again very similar to Andy Dalton.

but man this is just the buffalo game and down the stretch it wasn't good play overall from him....if that was Lance people would be having a field day.

Yes the defense couldn't stop anything, but if you don't blame Mac Jones for the loss yesterday you must not have high expectations of him. For a guy who's supposed to be accurate he made a lot of BAD throws. He's a good game manager but he won't win you games with his arm pic.twitter.com/rcKtiF7q3N

— Greezy (@CamGreezy) December 27, 2021

To be fair to Mac Jones, the temperature for that game was under 75 degrees fahrenheit and it's just not easy for him to throw in inclement weather like that.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I am not poo pooing, lol, Herbert's rookie year. He had one of the best rookie seasons for an NFL QB. I am simply saying that Mac Jones had a decent season for a rookie QB and it may have been even better if he had similar weapons as Herbert. Remember, I din't bring up Herbert first, you did.

Yes. I am using stats to make my arguments. Stats would be evidence and your "observations" would not be in a court of law.

I brought up Herbert because he along with a handful of other rookies weren't in your article. Yes you have poo pooed him and even stated Jones might have been better in that same situation in 2020 which I will completely disagree with.

Stats are not the end all be all if a player was good or not. Stats don't show plays like this

The Chargers, picking 13th overall, had the worst run blocking and the 3rd worst pass blocking offensive line in the NFL

Justin Herbert faced pressure on nearly 37% of his drop backs and was sacked 31 times

The OROY still scored 36 total TDs as a rookiepic.twitter.com/w7m1MVm3id

— Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) April 5, 2021

Look I don't think Mac stinks, he's a game manager and can run your offense. Good processer with good mechanics. Again very similar to Andy Dalton.

but man this is just the buffalo game and down the stretch it wasn't good play overall from him....if that was Lance people would be having a field day.

Yes the defense couldn't stop anything, but if you don't blame Mac Jones for the loss yesterday you must not have high expectations of him. For a guy who's supposed to be accurate he made a lot of BAD throws. He's a good game manager but he won't win you games with his arm pic.twitter.com/rcKtiF7q3N

— Greezy (@CamGreezy) December 27, 2021

You misunderstood what I was conveying. I was saying that Mac Jones would have had a better season than he had if he had Herbert's weapons. I was not saying that he would have had a better rookie season than Herbert. Sorry. That was my fault. I should have worded it better.

I am also not saying Mac Jones is going to have a great career. I have no idea. The odds are against him. I am sure we can both agree on that. This debate started because I made a statement that Mac Jones had a solid season as a rookie QB. That is what I believe. Did he look like a HOFer? No. Nothing that I seen from him last season tells me he is going to fall by the wayside either.

Also, there are tweets of Jones making big boy throws. Someone posted them a few pages back. I am sure I could dig up a series of poor throws and decisions by Herbert in his rookie season also. He threw at least 1 int in 7 of those 9 losses.