Examining the Red Zone Issues & How to Fix Them

Originally posted by NCommand:
OTC didn't even need to make this thread. All the answers are right here.

How can 49ers improve red-zone offense? https://t.co/1RSUN56pNY

— Grant Cohn (@grantcohn) June 26, 2019

Definitely not clicking.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Definitely not clicking.

I read all of it and will save folks the trouble now:

Kyle is starting to get it because he drafted Hurd, Kaden Smith, and signed JMatthews. Getting bigger = more red zone TDs. The end.

Originally posted by thl408:

Good stuff OTC. I wonder how it breaks down between Beathard vs Mullens. I may tally that to see if Beathard was the QB with the worse red zone success. Trying to remember, I think the inability to run the ball in the red zone was the bigger contributor to the woes in 2018, not the lack of a large target.
Even when Jimmy was scoring red zone TDs in 2017, a good number were scored using off script, sandlot plays.

Jimmy, Kittle, Pettis, and chemistry should help the red zone offense in 2019. Bright side is there's only one way to go with red zone success in 2019, up.

When you are one dimensional in the red zone (for example:having a 3rd string QB playing) it's much easier to defend against you. The key to solving the red zone problem is to be able to run *and* pass in short yardage. That's why being able to run it in the red zone is so important. Kyle can pass, but can he scheme a short yardage run play a-la Harbaugh's Bo Shembechler offense. I think he can. RiverRuns even spelled it out.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Definitely not clicking.

I read all of it and will save folks the trouble now:

Kyle is starting to get it because he drafted Hurd, Kaden Smith, and signed JMatthews. Getting bigger = more red zone TDs. The end.

Thanks ThL. I'm also definitely not losing my IQ points today by reading crap analysis from a crap wannabe journalist, with a cone on his head.

Originally posted by Giedi:
When you are one dimensional in the red zone (for example:having a 3rd string QB playing) it's much easier to defend against you. The key to solving the red zone problem is to be able to run *and* pass in short yardage. That's why being able to run it in the red zone is so important. Kyle can pass, but can he scheme a short yardage run play a-la Harbaugh's Bo Shembechler offense. I think he can. RiverRuns even spelled it out.

Even under Harbaugh the 49ers had red-zone woes. Remember when 49ers' fans complained about not having a red-zone receiving threat?

And then Michael Crabtree went to Oakland and became one of the best red-zone receivers in the NFL. To make matters worse, his most successful route was the fade.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Definitely not clicking.

I read all of it and will save folks the trouble now:

Kyle is starting to get it because he drafted Hurd, Kaden Smith, and signed JMatthews. Getting bigger = more red zone TDs. The end.

It was kinda funny he brought up the rams and their rushing TDs inside the 10....Rams with the greatest offensive mind this league ever seen was at 56% in the RZ which was 19th in the league.

Still like my feelings about RZ being a QB driven number that shows itself when you start to put seasons in scheme together. Drew Brees worst RZ performance was like 56% in NO. Other than that it's usually well in the 60's and more times then not at top 5 finish. Continuity is the thing.

I think the best way to fix our red zone issues is to score touchdowns.

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

I think the best way to fix our red zone issues is to score touchdowns.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Definitely not clicking.

I read all of it and will save folks the trouble now:

Kyle is starting to get it because he drafted Hurd, Kaden Smith, and signed JMatthews. Getting bigger = more red zone TDs. The end.

It was kinda funny he brought up the rams and their rushing TDs inside the 10....Rams with the greatest offensive mind this league ever seen was at 56% in the RZ which was 19th in the league.

Still like my feelings about RZ being a QB driven number that shows itself when you start to put seasons in scheme together. Drew Brees worst RZ performance was like 56% in NO. Other than that it's usually well in the 60's and more times then not at top 5 finish. Continuity is the thing.

QB'S make faster decisions with continuity. Heck the entire 11 man offense will be faster if they played together longer. But being physically superior running the ball in the red zone makes QB'ing a lot easier. The red zone is the most difficult part of the field to score on. And some offenses (Harbaugh) never figured it out.

I'd like to see Garnett supplant Person - who is horrible and the weak link.

Originally posted by mayo49:
I'd like to see Garnett supplant Person - who is horrible and the weak link.

That's like poop telling vomit it stinks.

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I'd like to see Garnett supplant Person - who is horrible and the weak link.

That's like poop telling vomit it stinks.

Garnett has talent - he just keeps getting hurt.

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:

Originally posted by mayo49:

I'd like to see Garnett supplant Person - who is horrible and the weak link.

That's like poop telling vomit it stinks.

Garnett has talent - he just keeps getting hurt.

Agree. As someone who despised the pick of Garnett from the start, I felt like Garnett showed more in limited action than Person did. Had he not gotten hurt and had Person missed any significant time, something tells me Garnett would've held onto the job throughout the year. If healthy, I don't see any major threats to beat him out. The OL coach 100% believes he's in the conversation to start, and Mike Person's deal was for backup money. The RG spot is up for grabs and Garnett has a golden opportunity to take it.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Still like my feelings about RZ being a QB driven number that shows itself when you start to put seasons in scheme together. Drew Brees worst RZ performance was like 56% in NO. Other than that it's usually well in the 60's and more times then not at top 5 finish. Continuity is the thing.

I'm buying this...esp. coupled with health, OL play and play calling. But this probably has the edge.

Like in Minnesota, are we keeping in max protection (only 2 receiving options) because their DL is so dominant, the OL is too weak to sustain the protection or at executing blocking schemes in tight quarters, the QB might need more time and is excellent at off schedule plays anyways, our weaker receivers might need extra time to shake loose, etc?

So many factors play into this but QB and ay caller in sync with experience is probably key.

What about audibles?

I've asked this question and raised this issue sometime near midseason last yr, when it became obvious we had a RZ problem, namely scoring. Also as I recall we didn't move the ball all that well once inside the 20. Yds/carry fell off.

Didn't realize our better backs were only 200 lbs, and that explains why in open field they do way better. In close spaces...not so well.

Also didn't realize Hurd goes 220, but sure knew about the concussion problems. Using him as a long term solution? not a great idea with the concussive hx.

The combo of big tall guys, Hurd, Kaden Smith, and Matthews, assuming all make the team...looks like a really good answer.

Also, going bigger with Coleman, even with a 1. something yds//carry in RZ sounds promising.

but the real deal may very well be 6 guys who can play WR/TE/ RB...Hurd, Deebo, Au jus, Jet, Brieda, maybe Coleman, Kittle...there it is kyle's slight of hand that works when Ds can't play run because we got a half dozen guys who can line up that way and then catch a pass. Vice versa when Ds can't' play pass. That will help but I wonder, is that just for football played between the 20s?

Right now, looking at all data, it looks like bigger is better, both for pounds and for height. But that helps us only if Matthews, and Kaden make the team.

I was thinking Trent Brown type action, or having a beef master who can block like a mutha for power/man blocking as an alternative, but those guys typically, if over 350 lbs, aren't much at ZBS. Earlier, last season , wondered if having one OT who can wipe out a 4 foot hole AND take care of the LB or CB behind him, wouldn't be a thot. But then that gives the play away and the "Trent like OT" is targeted as to where the play is going. Also, even with Harbaw's beef eater OL, we couldn't do squat in the RZ. Granted we were limited at QB with Kap, but power football just based on size, doesn't necessarily have to work.

Comments above about Richburg either getting healthy or getting replaced, same with Person...we could have addressed that with one guy in our pick in round Two of draft. Instead we went Deebo, not a RZ whiz, altho a great receiver. I think unless cc's guy from the Midwest hits the jackpot or garnett rises from the wounded stack, this omission is going to haunt us all yr.

"Build your lines first"...Vince Lombardi was right on with that bit of wisdom. We DID build our DL this yr, so we are half way there. Next yrs draft and FA is pretty straight forward...C, OG, OG...plus 1 DB.(maybe 2). For this yr tho, we are going to have to somehow finesse the OL issue as we got a C who has played injured all yr. I give him high marks for guts, but if he is physically limited, we are sunk. Same goes for Person, who played well but just isn't a beef master and gets shoved around. And as noted, both guys got abused and used in RZ last yr.

Coleman at 220 might be a partial answer but at 1.2 or whatever measly yds/carry in RZ...that sounds unlikely. Thanks to Thl's video of NE in the RZ last yr and esp in the SB, it was as he said, pretty simple. FB always goes thru the hole and blasts either the LB or Corner, whoever is in the hole. Our problem is making the hole to start with. And Person, Richburg and Tomlinson(not as much) in the RZ...there is the initial problem...right at the LOS. Can't move the DL out of the way.

Perhaps kyle's scheming with his six RB/TE/WR guys, Brieda, Deebo, Hurd, Jet, Au Jus, Kittle, maybe Coleman may cause initial mismatches that negate the problem we have at C and OG. It could happen. But NE sure leans on that FB leading thru the hole and we definitely should be doing that. It is the action before that , at LOS where we spin our wheels.

I like bigger back theory at 220, but that hasn't seemed to help coleman to date in RZ. We haven't even seen JET, yet, so maybe there is something there. Kittle seems to draw inordinate attention inside RZ. But if Kaden is in, Matthews and/or Hurd, that should help immensely. Pettis sure doesn't seem to get open in RZ, so no help there. Au Jus I think should be blowing thru the hole for second level guys (LB, CB) altho he undoubtedly will be a target in RZ this yr, esp in close... when not a target he should lead ball carrier thru the hole.

Basically, in close, we are shut down from running inside, purely based on our personnel. With good health, it will be interesting to see how Richburg does. Maybe that is the answer + rook from Midwest + Hurd (and other two tall guys), and maybe the WR/TE/RB gives us a momentary bump up also.

In sum, we are short 3 interior OLs, both size wise and health wise. They get better, our RZ efficiency gets better.

---The 3 tall guys may help.
---The bigger guy Coleman maybe helps a tiny bit.
---Au jus blowing thru the hole once cleared out is a must.(just like NE)
---the rook from Midwest possibly could help once past mideseason
---Kyle's triple threats might help (WR/TE/RB)...all 6 of them......with concussion hx, I wouldn't bank on Hurd running the ball except rarely
---Richburg's improving health may help.
---all the above may help kittle because he just might get singled.
---and we haven't even seen jet yet...may help
---with a lot of luck, a healthy Garnett helps a lot.
OR:
we do our best and hope next yr comes quick when we retool at C, OG, OG, a quick fast beef master RB, and a 6'7" long armed leaper would be outstanding.

Until then, RZ looks to once again be problematic unless one or more of the above scenarios plays out.