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The Great Scot McCloughan [updated]

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Jan 17, 2019 at 4:04 PM
Originally posted by 9erReign:
Weird


Also read up on Scot standing on a table vouching for Willis in a the war room because the rest of the room thought he was too small.



Which is fine and dandy but Nolan still had final say on all draft and FA decisions. The moment they took it away from Nolan, McCloughan drafted Balmer, Rachal and gave Brandon Jones a 5 year contract.

I have zero trouble believing that McCloughan is a fantastic scout who does good work and can be of benefit to any organization as long as he is not the decision maker. Once he becomes the decision maker, either the stress gets to him and he starts hitting the bottle hard or he's simply incapable of making the appropriate decisions because if Al Davis doesn't go full senile and lets Crabtree falls into the 49ers laps, the only two drafts that McCloughan 100% ran for the 49ers would have been utter and complete bombs.

From 2005 to 2007, Nolan had final say on all personnel matters and the 49ers made a lot of great draft picks and some good FA signings such as Justin Smith. As soon as McCloughan assumed full personnel control, it became a debacle.
Jan 17, 2019 at 4:07 PM
Originally posted by Fanaticofnfl:
It's only been two years though. And already John >>>>> Trent since we never drafted an All-Pro while Baalke was GM so Lynch already has him beat there.

Hamster>>>>>Trent
Jan 17, 2019 at 4:09 PM
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by 9erReign:
Weird


Also read up on Scot standing on a table vouching for Willis in a the war room because the rest of the room thought he was too small.



Which is fine and dandy but Nolan still had final say on all draft and FA decisions. The moment they took it away from Nolan, McCloughan drafted Balmer, Rachal and gave Brandon Jones a 5 year contract.

I have zero trouble believing that McCloughan is a fantastic scout who does good work and can be of benefit to any organization as long as he is not the decision maker. Once he becomes the decision maker, either the stress gets to him and he starts hitting the bottle hard or he's simply incapable of making the appropriate decisions because if Al Davis doesn't go full senile and lets Crabtree falls into the 49ers laps, the two drafts that McCloughan 100% ran for the 49ers would have been utter and complete bombs.

From 2005 to 2007, Nolan had final say on all personnel matters and the 49ers made a lot of great draft picks and some good FA signings such as Justin Smith. As soon as McCloughan assumed full personnel control, it became a debacle.

Well, what else nolan done personnel wise since 2007?
Jan 17, 2019 at 4:13 PM
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Well, what else nolan done personnel wise since 2007?

I have no clue what Nolan has done personnel wise, I just think McCloughan is best suited in an assistant role like he had under Nolan and later on with Seattle. Maybe the guy doesn't handle pressure well and simply being one of the voices in the room better meshes with his personality, I just know that there is a huge disparity in the quality of players obtained when he was just the GM helping out Nolan and when he was the guy who had full power over everything here.

How do you go from drafting Staley, Willis and Gore to drafting Balmer, Rachal, McKillop and Reggie Smith? There was a clear dropoff. If it was just one draft, fine, Ozzie Newsome bombed entire draft classes but we're talking both draft classes that he fully ran being disasters.
Jan 17, 2019 at 4:24 PM
  • LVJay
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#GotDrank
Jan 17, 2019 at 4:25 PM
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Well, what else nolan done personnel wise since 2007?

I have no clue what Nolan has done personnel wise, I just think McCloughan is best suited in an assistant role like he had under Nolan and later on with Seattle. Maybe the guy doesn't handle pressure well and simply being one of the voices in the room better meshes with his personality, I just know that there is a huge disparity in the quality of players obtained when he was just the GM helping out Nolan and when he was the guy who had full power over everything here.

How do you go from drafting Staley, Willis and Gore to drafting Balmer, Rachal, McKillop and Reggie Smith? There was a clear dropoff. If it was just one draft, fine, Ozzie Newsome bombed entire draft classes but we're talking both draft classes that he fully ran being disasters.

Serious question....has Scot ever addressed where he was on the Alex vs Aaron '05 pick? I don't follow him too much but I wonder were he was because that was a franchise altering decision.
Jan 17, 2019 at 4:27 PM
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
As others have said, you're discounting some fantastic drafts he had from '05-'07 so your point is moot.

He was light years above the useless two years (Kittle withstanding) Lynch and Peters have strung together.



The problem is that he was not the ultimate decisionmaker during those years. Nolan was. McCloughan made his recommendationa but Nolan had the final say.


As soon as McCloughan was given full personnel control, he drove the franchise into a wall.


Great scout, lousy GM.

I worry Lynch isn't good at either.
Jan 17, 2019 at 4:29 PM
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Scot drafted Vernon Davis and:
Gore
Willis
Staley


Nolan drafted those guys. Scot had zero authority to make the final decision on anything. Just as soon as he got that authority, his first two picks were Kentwan Balmer and Chilo Rachal, passing over Desean Jackson twice.

Scot was the VP of PP. He deserves credit for those drafts. I give Lynch credit for every draft from his front office career.
Jan 17, 2019 at 4:29 PM
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
I worry Lynch isn't good at either.

Picking McGlinchey, Kittle, Warner, Pettis alone is a hell of a lot better than those 2008+2009 drafts.
Jan 17, 2019 at 4:30 PM
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by okdkid:
Sure. But he was a net positive on the roster at the time. Definitely had his misses. But there is a reason his opinion is in demand.

I think he's great if he is just a voice in the room. He is a brilliant scout no doubt but you want him as a helper and not the guy steering the ship.


When Nolan had full personnel control, the 49ers overall did very well. As soon as McCloughan got it, things went off the rails, not just in the draft but FA.


I feel like his drinking problems preclude him from being relied upon in that role of head decisionmaker for any appreciable amount of time. Even in Washington, some of the guys he drafted like Josh Doctson have been major disappointments.

Drinking and driving don't mix...but neither does drinking and FAing /drafting. In either case you get the same result....and it isn't good.

Jan 17, 2019 at 4:31 PM
So to be clear:

Nolan > Scot > Lynch > Baalke
Jan 17, 2019 at 4:33 PM
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Scot was the VP of PP. He deserves credit for those drafts. I give Lynch credit for every draft from his front office career.



Why did he start bombing the moment he received full say over personnel?


You would expect some consistency but everything about the 49ers personnel decisions went 100% downhill as soon as Nolan was stripped of personnel control.


So whats up with that?


Scot as the personnel advisor/helper GM under Nolan=Killing it.


Scot with full personnel control and no checks or balances=atrocious.
Jan 17, 2019 at 4:37 PM
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Scot was the VP of PP. He deserves credit for those drafts. I give Lynch credit for every draft from his front office career.



Why did he start bombing the moment he received full say over personnel?


You would expect some consistency but everything about the 49ers personnel decisions went 100% downhill as soon as Nolan was stripped of personnel control.


So whats up with that?


Scot as the personnel advisor/helper GM under Nolan=Killing it.


Scot with full personnel control and no checks or balances=atrocious.

That was about the time Jed and Paraag got real hands on. Maybe because Scot was struggling with addiction.
Jan 17, 2019 at 4:44 PM
  • FL9er
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I just remember Scot being messy. There was always something going on with him. Ralph Barbieri used to kill him. Then in Washington his wife accused him of messing around with the ESPN chick, or rather she was doing "favors" to get news scoops. It was always something.
Jan 17, 2019 at 4:46 PM
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
That was about the time Jed and Paraag got real hands on. Maybe because Scot was struggling with addiction.

Do you have actual proof of this?





Or is it far more likely that Scot is a great scout that you want in your war room but not necessarily the guy you want with his finger on the button?



I don't think Nolan is a great personnel guy by any means but I feel like he and Scot worked well together and that Mike was able to counter some of Scot's more...destructive tendencies. They had good synergy. Once Mike lost control over personnel, there was nobody left to tell Scot "yeah I wouldn't do that s**t if I were you!"
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