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Originally posted by tohara3:
Absolutely great job NCommand!

I second that emotion.....and emoji!!

Cheers!
Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
Rb is now the #1 need. McKinnon is hot garbage. Definite downgrade.

You.....may be incorrect, sir!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheXFactor:
RB is no longer really a need. Maybe a day 3 pick in the draft.

Yes sir.

Free Agency:
Top Caliber C - Check
Offensive Weapon RB - Check
Potential Lockdown CB - Check
Depth for ER, ST, T, C, LB - Check

Free Agency Left:
Stud FA G (starter)
Linebacker (depth)
CB (depth)

Draft:
ER
LB
CB
T
G
RB
WR

I agree, NC... I know that many zoners out there may feel the Niners didn't pursue enough real talented guys in FA but there are good reasons for that... First, a guy like Norwell, for example, is probably not a good fit in the Shanahan offensive scheme. Second, the Niners don't want to put too much money into a single position (like WR for example) and then upset the balance of the team's salary structure. The Raiders probably overloaded their roster with expensive OL guys and now they find themselves with holes all over. Third, the Niners want to save some money for when some of their own guys need to be resigned and so they don't want to use all of their cap room on just a few players.
Point? The Patriots have shown that spending a lot of money in free agency seldom gets you where you want to go. Spending on good (but not expensive) talent to fill a specific need (like the Niners did with Richburg) is the smart (but not necessarily flashy) way to go. The Niners essentially got 3 starters this week as FAs. I think we should all be pretty pleased with that.

Cheers!
Originally posted by NCommand:

Jimmie Ward passing a physical and cutting him before 1pm PST today could have saved us $8.5M alone.


I found that very interesting too. The Niners must really like Jimmie Ward or they would have cut him. He does provide depth and he could even start at CB or FS so he is valuable....if he can stay healthy that is.
Originally posted by NCommand:
So if no other Free Agent moves are made, this is where we're at regarding team needs and where we should probably spend that capital in the draft.

CB - There's no guarantee Richard Sherman will regain form. Ahkello got dinged up a bit last year so if he or Sherman can't go, we've got nobody outside save for Jimmie Glass Joe Ward. 1st or 2nd round.
G - We really need two G's here. One should not count on Joshua Garnett in this system and Tomlinson is more proof that 1st round OL don't always pan out. 1st, 2nd and or 3rd.
ER - Marsh replaces Dumervil and Attaochu adds some legit upside. But this is still a massive need. 1st or 2nd.
T - Staley is 33 and Brown is recovering from a torn labrum. It's time to draft and train a top tier T for a year and be proactive. 1st or 2nd.
LB - LB is not as crucial a need with Malcolm Smith back and even Brock Coyle. It already sounds like Pita and Harold will compete at SAM. Could use depth at MIKE or WILL even with Elijah Lee already on the team (FO high on him). 1st, 4th, 5th, or 6th.
WR - Lots of big-bodied ZWR's in this draft. 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th.
RB - Deep draft and need a power RB to take some inside pounding. 3rd, 4th or 5th.
FS - We retained Jimmie Ward and found Adrian Colbert in the 7th. Chancellor James is a promising SS behind Tartt. 5th, 6th or 7th.

1st round | 9th overall - CB,G,ER,T,LB
2nd round | 59th overall (from NO) - CB,G,ER,T
3rd round | 70th overall (from CHI) - G,WR,RB
3rd round | 74th overall - G,WR,RB
4th round | 128th overall (from PIT) - WR,RB,LB
5th round | 143rd overall (from NYJ) - WR,RB,LB,FS
6th round | 184th overall - WR,RB,LB,FS
7th round | 223th overall (from MIA) - WR,RB,FS
7th round | 240th overall (from KC) - WR,RB,FS

Assessment: It looks like a trade back might be the best way to go to help close that big gap between 9 and 59. It's highly unlikely we get premier players at our biggest needs: CB,G,ER,T,LB. But the 3-year rebuild does seem to be right on schedule, if not a year ahead thanks to Jimmy Garropolo.

Great post, NC! The Niners should put you in their front office.

Cheers!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Wow, when you say 2nd round pick and then look at the board, all those many great OGs/Cs and that inccludes those that play both, the bulk of the best are found from 21 (Wynn) to #35 (Braden), with 30( Hernanadez) and #31( Connor Williams) in between and that is where we aren't. I don't think Kyle intends to go thru this season and not fill in those two OG slots. I just don't believe he'd do that. So, we need to massage this a bit, and maybe have a two pronged approach. Design it so that if Nelson falls to 9, we go ahead and take him. Otherwise if not there, we may have to sacrifice a shot at Roquan(who we desperately need) and trade down into 30 (Hernandez) and 35 Braden. We would have to add in one of our 4ths (124) to make it work but we would still be short 33 points...

A lot depends on who exactly Kyle wants. If he wants Wynn, ok then we have to recalibrate. But the idea is to target those 4 guys, 21-35.

At least that is one opinion on how to land two really nice OGs. Then instead of half fixing the OL it and the O are finished. Use #59, 70, 74 for DE, LB, CB., plus the rest of our draft all D.

I hear you doc!

The narrative is that the draft is deep at interior OL but the question is, are we really in position to grab a few (including a T)?

So if we stay pat, who would you pick?

I'm guessing something like this and ideally, we'd do a small trade back and still get our guy.

1st round | 9th overall - ER Harold Landry
2nd round | 59th overall - LT Brian O'Neill
3rd round | 70th overall - G Austin Corbett
3rd round | 74th overall - CB Kevin Tolliver
4th round | 128th overall - WR Marcell Ateman
5th round | 143rd overall - FS Jordan Whitehead

If we stay pat 4 avenues based on who is at #9 :Okay staying pat:

If Landry, then trade up to 30 for Hernandez (we have 2 threes) but that isn't enough. It would be tough.
If we can't get to 30 then shoot for Braden a 35....less expensive.
if we can't swing that then #59 and #70 if the OT can play OG.

IF Roquan...first see if any takers. If so and we can drop down to 21 for Winn or 30 for Hernandez, make the trade. The trading team would still owe us substantially and shoot for their additional pick plus our 2nd third and if enough for #35 (Braden Smith) do it. I would love Roquan , we need him desperately, but this is HC decision.
IF we keep Roquan, same as above, then take 59 and 70 , one OG and OT(if he can play OG)

IF Minkah, first see if any takers and if so exact same as above with Landry. Hey again, keeping minkah is a huge need. But we could try and get two of those 5 OGs between 21 and 35.
If we keep Minkah, then as above take OG and OT at 59 and 70.

Now, if NELSON, easy. Keep him and then move up from #59 with additional player and move into 30-35 slot with swap of #59. Get player from next yr draft if needed. But finish off the OL
The other choice with. NELson would be to depend on Garnett/magnus to carry the other OG. It is a risk but with NElson, one side of the OL will be dynamite, the other could be significant. But then we have no backups and like last yr, that was no bueno.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Mar 18, 2018 at 10:09 PM ]
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,883
Originally posted by longterm9erfan:
Originally posted by NCommand:
So if no other Free Agent moves are made, this is where we're at regarding team needs and where we should probably spend that capital in the draft.

CB - There's no guarantee Richard Sherman will regain form. Ahkello got dinged up a bit last year so if he or Sherman can't go, we've got nobody outside save for Jimmie Glass Joe Ward. 1st or 2nd round.
G - We really need two G's here. One should not count on Joshua Garnett in this system and Tomlinson is more proof that 1st round OL don't always pan out. 1st, 2nd and or 3rd.
ER - Marsh replaces Dumervil and Attaochu adds some legit upside. But this is still a massive need. 1st or 2nd.
T - Staley is 33 and Brown is recovering from a torn labrum. It's time to draft and train a top tier T for a year and be proactive. 1st or 2nd.
LB - LB is not as crucial a need with Malcolm Smith back and even Brock Coyle. It already sounds like Pita and Harold will compete at SAM. Could use depth at MIKE or WILL even with Elijah Lee already on the team (FO high on him). 1st, 4th, 5th, or 6th.
WR - Lots of big-bodied ZWR's in this draft. 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th.
RB - Deep draft and need a power RB to take some inside pounding. 3rd, 4th or 5th.
FS - We retained Jimmie Ward and found Adrian Colbert in the 7th. Chancellor James is a promising SS behind Tartt. 5th, 6th or 7th.

1st round | 9th overall - CB,G,ER,T,LB
2nd round | 59th overall (from NO) - CB,G,ER,T
3rd round | 70th overall (from CHI) - G,WR,RB
3rd round | 74th overall - G,WR,RB
4th round | 128th overall (from PIT) - WR,RB,LB
5th round | 143rd overall (from NYJ) - WR,RB,LB,FS
6th round | 184th overall - WR,RB,LB,FS
7th round | 223th overall (from MIA) - WR,RB,FS
7th round | 240th overall (from KC) - WR,RB,FS

Assessment: It looks like a trade back might be the best way to go to help close that big gap between 9 and 59. It's highly unlikely we get premier players at our biggest needs: CB,G,ER,T,LB. But the 3-year rebuild does seem to be right on schedule, if not a year ahead thanks to Jimmy Garropolo.

Great post, NC! The Niners should put you in their front office.

Cheers!
Yep, for some reason, ShanaLynch and NCommand pretty much think the same. Weird!
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,883
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Wow, when you say 2nd round pick and then look at the board, all those many great OGs/Cs and that inccludes those that play both, the bulk of the best are found from 21 (Wynn) to #35 (Braden), with 30( Hernanadez) and #31( Connor Williams) in between and that is where we aren't. I don't think Kyle intends to go thru this season and not fill in those two OG slots. I just don't believe he'd do that. So, we need to massage this a bit, and maybe have a two pronged approach. Design it so that if Nelson falls to 9, we go ahead and take him. Otherwise if not there, we may have to sacrifice a shot at Roquan(who we desperately need) and trade down into 30 (Hernandez) and 35 Braden. We would have to add in one of our 4ths (124) to make it work but we would still be short 33 points...

A lot depends on who exactly Kyle wants. If he wants Wynn, ok then we have to recalibrate. But the idea is to target those 4 guys, 21-35.

At least that is one opinion on how to land two really nice OGs. Then instead of half fixing the OL it and the O are finished. Use #59, 70, 74 for DE, LB, CB., plus the rest of our draft all D.

I hear you doc!

The narrative is that the draft is deep at interior OL but the question is, are we really in position to grab a few (including a T)?

So if we stay pat, who would you pick?

I'm guessing something like this and ideally, we'd do a small trade back and still get our guy.

1st round | 9th overall - ER Harold Landry
2nd round | 59th overall - LT Brian O'Neill or LB insurance for Reuben.
3rd round | 70th overall - G Austin Corbett
3rd round | 74th overall - CB Kevin Tolliver
4th round | 128th overall - WR Marcell Ateman
5th round | 143rd overall - FS Jordan Whitehead

Great post, and the only thing I'd quibble about is 2nd 4round/59th overall - LT Brian O'Neill -- personally I think they will choose another LB as insurance for Reuben here.
Originally posted by illinois9er:
Based on those rankings I'd be stoked with:

Roquan Smith
Mike Gesicki
Brian O'Neill
Rashaad Penny
Marcell Ateman or Kemoko Turay
Dorance Armstrong or Deon Cain

I like this too!
Originally posted by Giedi:
Great post, and the only thing I'd quibble about is 2nd 4round/59th overall - LT Brian O'Neill -- personally I think they will choose another LB as insurance for Reuben here.

Right? Who you got at LB there though?

Originally posted by longterm9erfan:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Jimmie Ward passing a physical and cutting him before 1pm PST today could have saved us $8.5M alone.


I found that very interesting too. The Niners must really like Jimmie Ward or they would have cut him. He does provide depth and he could even start at CB or FS so he is valuable....if he can stay healthy that is.

Yeah, there was speculation that he didn't pass or wouldn't pass his physical which would have been an injury guarantee anyway so Lynch is in justification mode right now.
Originally posted by longterm9erfan:
Great post, NC! The Niners should put you in their front office.

Cheers!

Originally posted by Giedi:
Yep, for some reason, ShanaLynch and NCommand pretty much think the same. Weird!

Thanks fellas. Truly enjoy playing the pro personnel armchair GM. It's even more fun when the real FO matches what a fan predicted.

Each year we'll learn more and more about this FO and their tendencies.
Laken Tomlinson vs. Aaron Donald
Joshua Garnett vs. Ndamukong Suh

Yeah.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Laken Tomlinson vs. Aaron Donald
Joshua Garnett vs. Ndamukong Suh

Yeah.
I see a return of the wham block!
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,883
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Great post, and the only thing I'd quibble about is 2nd 4round/59th overall - LT Brian O'Neill -- personally I think they will choose another LB as insurance for Reuben here.

Right? Who you got at LB there though?

 Shaquem Griffin Central Florida LB. Reuben is more of a nickel weakside backer than a base linebacker in my opinion (due to his size and injury prone play and speed).

My thoughts are to get a free agent LB or low round pick (we signed Coyle and Malcom should be healed from his Peck injury) as depth and insurance for Reuben. And get Griffen to play the Hybrid safety/LB in the Nickel defense.

If Reuben clears his suspensions and starts, Griffen isn't an exact duplicate of Reuben. If Reuben gets suspended or is kicked out of the league - Griffen can play the nickel. We are in nickel 70% of the time, and will probably be in that even more this year with McKinnon and Jimmy scoring a lot.
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