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Originally posted by defenderDX:Originally posted by jonnydel:It's also a play that highlights the great O-line play. Look how clean that pocket is on an 18 yard out route - that's gonna take a few seconds
big boy throw
Originally posted by jonnydel:There were a number of times where the Rams came out of the huddle sprinting to get lined up, then quick snapped it. The play above was one time. Another was on Gurley's TD catch. Both times the 49ers were rushed to get set and it resulted in rather easy throws for Goff.
Here was another key 3rd down - this one went for a TD and was the score to get them to 41. 3rd and 3.
Here's some kind of busted coverage. I have a hard time figuring out exactly what we were running. I think we were running man-cover 1 but it's hard to tell. There's a couple weird things on the play. McVay uses tempo the way Chip Kelly thought he was. He comes out of the huddle really fast into a bunch formation and as soon as they're lined up they snap the ball. This makes it hard on the defense to communicate who's go who. They run a simple "spacing" concept.
This is why it's hard to tell - Robinson first bites down towards the flat, they turns and see's his man running free and bails out as Ray Ray heads to the flat at the top. On the bottom they man up on the 2 outside routes and Johnson sits over the top of the inside curl route.
So, now you have 2 defenders on the middle curl route.
Goff gives a slight pump fake to the right and moves Bowman out of the middle which opens up the area for Watkins even more.
So now, you have 6 defenders on 4 receivers on the outsides and no one over the middle. Watkins has a ton of room to work and ends up plowing into the endzone on this play. Like I said, I don't know what the playcall was on this, maybe someone can figure it out for me but there has to be a bust somewhere in here. This is not how you draw up plays.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by jonnydel:There were a number of times where the Rams came out of the huddle sprinting to get lined up, then quick snapped it. The play above was one time. Another was on Gurley's TD catch. Both times the 49ers were rushed to get set and it resulted in rather easy throws for Goff.
Here was another key 3rd down - this one went for a TD and was the score to get them to 41. 3rd and 3.
Here's some kind of busted coverage. I have a hard time figuring out exactly what we were running. I think we were running man-cover 1 but it's hard to tell. There's a couple weird things on the play. McVay uses tempo the way Chip Kelly thought he was. He comes out of the huddle really fast into a bunch formation and as soon as they're lined up they snap the ball. This makes it hard on the defense to communicate who's go who. They run a simple "spacing" concept.
This is why it's hard to tell - Robinson first bites down towards the flat, they turns and see's his man running free and bails out as Ray Ray heads to the flat at the top. On the bottom they man up on the 2 outside routes and Johnson sits over the top of the inside curl route.
So, now you have 2 defenders on the middle curl route.
Goff gives a slight pump fake to the right and moves Bowman out of the middle which opens up the area for Watkins even more.
So now, you have 6 defenders on 4 receivers on the outsides and no one over the middle. Watkins has a ton of room to work and ends up plowing into the endzone on this play. Like I said, I don't know what the playcall was on this, maybe someone can figure it out for me but there has to be a bust somewhere in here. This is not how you draw up plays.
This type of quick tempo is really creative. Whereas Chip would quickly line up, observe how the defense aligned itself, then made the playcall as the defense was set and ready to go at the line of scrimmage, McVay is using tempo a bit differently. The Rams would take their time in the huddle to call the play and sort things out, then quickly get set and snap the ball. Below is the Gurley TD catch. The film doesn't show the Rams breaking the huddle, just a bit after that. But we can see the Rams quickly getting lined up then snapping the ball.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
did you notice it's the exact same friggin play?....lol I just did.... McVay doing his best Chip impression, lol.
Originally posted by thl408:Originally posted by jonnydel:did you notice it's the exact same friggin play?....lol I just did.... McVay doing his best Chip impression, lol.
Similar to Chip in that it's a simple concept, Spacing, but dressed up with tempo.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
did you notice it's the exact same friggin play?....lol I just did.... McVay doing his best Chip impression, lol.
Similar to Chip in that it's a simple concept, Spacing, but dressed up with tempo.
Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:I will agree it's a half field read, however, everything I've ever seen from Bill Walsh or Shanny with the "spacing" concept it's always the middle, inside then outside progression - usually based upon the key defender of the hook/curl zone.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
did you notice it's the exact same friggin play?....lol I just did.... McVay doing his best Chip impression, lol.
Similar to Chip in that it's a simple concept, Spacing, but dressed up with tempo.
Yes indeed, spacing concept... it's a half field read with the progression from the outside in... this concept's base is a horizontal stretch of the undercoverage... its run over and over an over again on Sundays disguised in different formations and the receivers trading the same routes...
Goff picks which half of the field to read by which half of the field the FS shades post snap, you see him quickly scan to #1 the bench, then the hitch #2, then sees the slant stop #3 and hit its...
Originally posted by jonnydel:I will agree it's a half field read, however, everything I've ever seen from Bill Walsh or Shanny with the "spacing" concept it's always the middle, inside then outside progression - usually based upon the key defender of the hook/curl zone.Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:Originally posted by thl408:Originally posted by jonnydel:did you notice it's the exact same friggin play?....lol I just did.... McVay doing his best Chip impression, lol.
Similar to Chip in that it's a simple concept, Spacing, but dressed up with tempo.
Yes indeed, spacing concept... it's a half field read with the progression from the outside in... this concept's base is a horizontal stretch of the undercoverage... its run over and over an over again on Sundays disguised in different formations and the receivers trading the same routes...
Goff picks which half of the field to read by which half of the field the FS shades post snap, you see him quickly scan to #1 the bench, then the hitch #2, then sees the slant stop #3 and hit its...
It's dressed up differently but it was from 91. This was Holmgren's spacing - you can see the progression is middle, in then out on all of them.
You can also see it really well here in the upper right box for a "spacing" concept.
Originally posted by thl408:
I think to say it's Spacing is just describing half the play. It's really mirrored Curl-Flat concept with a Snag route over the middle. It's a "Hank" play and I think the read is usually inside/out, but because Goff had thrown it to Gurley earlier in the game for a TD, he looked outside-in.
Then again, coaches teach concepts differently and the order of the progression on a certain concept could change based on the coverage. Different coverage, different order of progression.
Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:Pulling out some Sid Gillman references, I'm all ears. I've seen staple concepts like Curl-Flat drawn up as both outside-in (Flat to Curl), and inside-out (Curl to Flat) reads. Same with All Curls. The notion is that sometimes having the QB look to one route first, will make a defender move, and open up the other route. For example on Slant-Flat concept, looking to the Flat first could earn a bigger passing lane to the Slant (Outside-In).
Walsh may have progressed from the inside out with his version of this concept in the WCO, but the innovator of that concept is Sid Gillman and his progression for that concept, which he called a horizontal stretch of the undercoverage, was to progress from outside in as you can see Goff doing here... Goff peaks at the FS post snap to confirm which half of the field to read, then he quickly scans outside in... in general, Gillman taught that when the #1 feature route was an out breaking route then the progression is outside in, when the feature route breaks inside at the top of the stem then the progression is inside out... the bench breaks out on both sides of the formation thus it being the first progression on this play,
You know what is funny is that there are about three concepts run on Sunday about 80% of the time: horizontal spacing, verticals (which is horizontal stretch of the deep coverage), and smash (which is not a concept but a route combo), and they are all run out of different formations with different receives running the same routes! IMO smash is the best pass combo ever invented, good against any coverage because it utilizes two base concepts at the same time, and routes can be ran by any receiver coming from any formation... I believe Mouse Davis is credited with inventing smash, but Gilman invented the two concepts it utilizes... All of pass combos are basically designed using one of three base concepts where Gilman invented all of them! Gillman was brilliant and he and Walsh are for sure equals IMO.
