Let's talk 49ers Secondary

Originally posted by longterm9erfan:

Good points all in this thread thus far... My two cents...since Harbaugh and his coaching staff left, this team has not had good coaching, both on an individual and scheme basis. Therefore, none of us really know what the players on the roster are truly capable of since they didn't received the necessary coaching and technique tips in order for them to reach their potential. Good coaching and scheming can hide deficiencies in a defense (and offense too) which all teams have to a degree. That is why the Patriots are so good year after year (and why the Niners were so good when Walsh was the coach).

The larger point is that now, all of us will see what each player is truly capable of because this GM and coaching staff is committed to putting all these players in positions where they can succeed (or in other words, helping to maximize player strengths and minimize deficiencies as best they can). It will be great to finally see this again. To me, this is what makes this :"rebuilding" year so fun and exciting.

I know the team only won 2 games last year and that is why everyone is stating that this roster had no talent. Well, if the coaching staff cannot help players reach their potential then you cannot say that the players have no talent. All you can say is that the coaching staff failed in bringing that talent out. Finally, it seems the team now has a staff in place that can do that.

Cheers!

Great post, good stuff 👍🍻

Originally posted by GoldenGateGlory:

Originally posted by 9moon:
I like this group a lot... I'd like to see the list below as the starting secondary come Game 1.

LCB - The Thief Robinson
RCB - The E-Reaser
NB - Will The Thrill
SS - The Pop Tartt
FS - The ZOrro

I love these names. Awesome.

They feisty !!! They mean !!! They fast and they be hittin !!!

THE DUDES WITH ATTITUDES !!!!

This group could be excellent or bad or anywhere in between. How's that for bold? Seriously though, they're so young anything is possible. And there is quite a lot of talented guys on the roster. Many have flashed as much for us already.

I'm leaning optimistic for these guys. Robinson has the potential to be a true #1 and we have potentially another couple guys who might have that ability too. Ward should play the Earl Thomas role pretty well IMO.

Originally posted by Evilgenius:

This group could be excellent or bad or anywhere in between. How's that for bold? Seriously though, they're so young anything is possible. And there is quite a lot of talented guys on the roster. Many have flashed as much for us already.

I'm leaning optimistic for these guys. Robinson has the potential to be a true #1 and we have potentially another couple guys who might have that ability too. Ward should play the Earl Thomas role pretty well IMO.

Agree with you , Evil, but every time i get excited about our DBs coming along, we sign Lorenzo or a Dumervil. Not that i am against bringing in good competition, but it makes me wonder about the talent we have in camp already. If the current talent were THAT good, we wouldn't have signed Lorenzo or Dumervil. Don't get me wrong, i like boht signings....BUT..it also makes me less and less confident we have DBs that are starters this yr. Again, that is ok, and may the best talent win. Still, this late to be signing DBs makes me uneasy. Let's just put it this way. If all our guys prior to these last two were locks, then we wouldn't have signed either. Frankly, i think nobody is a lock that can't be replaced by someone better. And the competition for the slots we already have are no locks or we wouldn't be still signing DBs. AGain, i say bring them in...bring them all in. But at end of the day, the DBs are the guys who feel like jelly in your hand...just oozing thru and you can't quite get a good grip on them. That has been and remains my take on our DBs.

Do i expect everyone to be Earl Thoms or Kap chancellor? No, but i would like to see some guys i am comfortable with. Right now our DBs are not set in stone...not even close.

On the DL and in the front 7, we may not know who is starting where, but at least we know who our best 7 are, or perhaps our best 11. In the front 7 we want the best 7 out there. I think we can all pretty well agree on who we choose for the best 7 with great depth, but who starts where....that is as of yet , undecided. Camp and 1 on 1s will decide that. With the DBs, I still don't know which we keep. There's talent there, but i got no idea right now as to who that is....or better, who is best. Again, camp battles will sort that out.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Evilgenius:
This group could be excellent or bad or anywhere in between. How's that for bold? Seriously though, they're so young anything is possible. And there is quite a lot of talented guys on the roster. Many have flashed as much for us already.

I'm leaning optimistic for these guys. Robinson has the potential to be a true #1 and we have potentially another couple guys who might have that ability too. Ward should play the Earl Thomas role pretty well IMO.

Agree with you , Evil, but every time i get excited about our DBs coming along, we sign Lorenzo or a Dumervil. Not that i am against bringing in good competition, but it makes me wonder about the talent we have in camp already. If the current talent were THAT good, we wouldn't have signed Lorenzo or Dumervil. Don't get me wrong, i like boht signings....BUT..it also makes me less and less confident we have DBs that are starters this yr. Again, that is ok, and may the best talent win. Still, this late to be signing DBs makes me uneasy. Let's just put it this way. If all our guys prior to these last two were locks, then we wouldn't have signed either. Frankly, i think nobody is a lock that can't be replaced by someone better. And the competition for the slots we already have are no locks or we wouldn't be still signing DBs. AGain, i say bring them in...bring them all in. But at end of the day, the DBs are the guys who feel like jelly in your hand...just oozing thru and you can't quite get a good grip on them. That has been and remains my take on our DBs.

Do i expect everyone to be Earl Thoms or Kap chancellor? No, but i would like to see some guys i am comfortable with. Right now our DBs are not set in stone...not even close. L

doc...we lost, virtually, every veteran in that 2015 off season (from hell). We went from the 26th oldest team to 3rd youngest overnight. Literally. What ShanaLynch are doing now is replacing those wily veterans who already know these offensive and defensive systems like the back of their hands and/or are perfect fits for them...from there, next steps will be for these veterans to model work ethic and production and development and give way (slowly) to the younger generation of players (i.e. from Mitchell to Jones). Even with these veterans, we're still one of the youngest teams in the NFL. That should tell you have devoid of veteran leadership we were (and the "coaching" the past two years didn't help either).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Evilgenius:

This group could be excellent or bad or anywhere in between. How's that for bold? Seriously though, they're so young anything is possible. And there is quite a lot of talented guys on the roster. Many have flashed as much for us already.

I'm leaning optimistic for these guys. Robinson has the potential to be a true #1 and we have potentially another couple guys who might have that ability too. Ward should play the Earl Thomas role pretty well IMO.

Agree with you , Evil, but every time i get excited about our DBs coming along, we sign Lorenzo or a Dumervil. Not that i am against bringing in good competition, but it makes me wonder about the talent we have in camp already. If the current talent were THAT good, we wouldn't have signed Lorenzo or Dumervil. Don't get me wrong, i like boht signings....BUT..it also makes me less and less confident we have DBs that are starters this yr. Again, that is ok, and may the best talent win. Still, this late to be signing DBs makes me uneasy. Let's just put it this way. If all our guys prior to these last two were locks, then we wouldn't have signed either. Frankly, i think nobody is a lock that can't be replaced by someone better. And the competition for the slots we already have are no locks or we wouldn't be still signing DBs. AGain, i say bring them in...bring them all in. But at end of the day, the DBs are the guys who feel like jelly in your hand...just oozing thru and you can't quite get a good grip on them. That has been and remains my take on our DBs.

Do i expect everyone to be Earl Thoms or Kap chancellor? No, but i would like to see some guys i am comfortable with. Right now our DBs are not set in stone...not even close. L

doc...we lost, virtually, every veteran in that 2015 off season (from hell). We went from the 26th oldest team to 3rd youngest overnight. Literally. What ShanaLynch are doing now is replacing those wily veterans who already know these offensive and defensive systems like the back of their hands and/or are perfect fits for them...from there, next steps will be for these veterans to model work ethic and production and development and give way (slowly) to the younger generation of players (i.e. from Mitchell to Jones). Even with these veterans, we're still one of the youngest teams in the NFL. That should tell you have devoid of veteran leadership we were (and the "coaching" the past two years didn't help either).

Good post NC, and i get it. But for the front 7, we may not know who starts where, but we sure know who our front 7 is going to be in base and passing downs. But DBs? The more acquisitions, the more i get the feeling that our front 7 is going to be awesome, but our back 4 are going to just be there...will they work out ? That i can't see ....YET. And sure our wipeout in 2015 changed everything, esp DBs. But since then, some fans have been impressed with several DBs ...but i just am not there yet. So the more the merrier for the time being. Put another way, i am really excited about our front 7 plus some rotational talent. At DBs, whatever they contribute will be welcome. That is about as warm as i can get.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Good post NC, and i get it. But for the front 7, we may not know who starts where, but we sure know who our front 7 is going to be in base and passing downs. But DBs? The more acquisitions, the more i get the feeling that our front 7 is going to be awesome, but our back 4 are going to just be there...will they work out ? That i can't see ....YET. And sure our wipeout in 2015 changed everything, esp DBs. But since then, some fans have been impressed with several DBs ...but i just am not there yet. So the more the merrier for the time being. Put another way, i am really excited about our front 7 plus some rotational talent. At DBs, whatever they contribute will be welcome. That is about as warm as i can get.

Gotcha...it's certainly a viable concern. I don't know if there is much question in the talent and upside of them:

RCB: Dontae Johnson; Ahkello Witherspoon
S/CB: K'Waun Williams; Will Redmond
LCB: Rashard Robinson
FS: Jimmie Ward; Lorenzo Jerome
SS: Eric Reid; Jaquiski Tartt

...but like you note, lots of questions on whether or not they can play to their abilities and how far have they grown since last year. Just look at all the new roles: DJ could now be a starter with a rookie behind him, Williams is proven in the NFL but Redmond may have more upside (watch that battle closely), Robinson seems poised to be our #1 but is HE ready to face other team's #1 WR, Ward's best years in college were at FS but now he's playing the premium FS role here (the Earl Thomas single-high FS role) and Reid, is moving from FS to SS (watch that battle with Tartt).

So, lots of question marks but I'm loving that players now appear to be put in their best positions/strengths and in a more simplified defensive scheme with an emphasis on gang tackling and aggressive tactics.

It's hard to guestimate how they'll all fare and even more so, behind our front 7.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Good post NC, and i get it. But for the front 7, we may not know who starts where, but we sure know who our front 7 is going to be in base and passing downs. But DBs? The more acquisitions, the more i get the feeling that our front 7 is going to be awesome, but our back 4 are going to just be there...will they work out ? That i can't see ....YET. And sure our wipeout in 2015 changed everything, esp DBs. But since then, some fans have been impressed with several DBs ...but i just am not there yet. So the more the merrier for the time being. Put another way, i am really excited about our front 7 plus some rotational talent. At DBs, whatever they contribute will be welcome. That is about as warm as i can get.

Gotcha...it's certainly a viable concern. I don't know if there is much question in the talent and upside of them:

RCB: Dontae Johnson; Ahkello Witherspoon
S/CB: K'Waun Williams; Will Redmond
LCB: Rashard Robinson
FS: Jimmie Ward; Lorenzo Jerome
SS: Eric Reid; Jaquiski Tartt

...but like you note, lots of questions on whether or not they can play to their abilities and how far have they grown since last year. Just look at all the new roles: DJ could now be a starter with a rookie behind him, Williams is proven in the NFL but Redmond may have more upside (watch that battle closely), Robinson seems poised to be our #1 but is HE ready to face other team's #1 WR, Ward's best years in college were at FS but now he's playing the premium FS role here (the Earl Thomas single-high FS role) and Reid, is moving from FS to SS (watch that battle with Tartt).

So, lots of question marks but I'm loving that players now appear to be put in their best positions/strengths and in a more simplified defensive scheme with an emphasis on gang tackling and aggressive tactics.

It's hard to guestimate how they'll all fare and even more so, behind our front 7.

Cam Newton hasn't even started throwing this off season. Saleh teaching our boys Petes grab tricks as an extra bonus as well.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Good post NC, and i get it. But for the front 7, we may not know who starts where, but we sure know who our front 7 is going to be in base and passing downs. But DBs? The more acquisitions, the more i get the feeling that our front 7 is going to be awesome, but our back 4 are going to just be there...will they work out ? That i can't see ....YET. And sure our wipeout in 2015 changed everything, esp DBs. But since then, some fans have been impressed with several DBs ...but i just am not there yet. So the more the merrier for the time being. Put another way, i am really excited about our front 7 plus some rotational talent. At DBs, whatever they contribute will be welcome. That is about as warm as i can get.

Gotcha...it's certainly a viable concern. I don't know if there is much question in the talent and upside of them:

RCB: Dontae Johnson; Ahkello Witherspoon
S/CB: K'Waun Williams; Will Redmond
LCB: Rashard Robinson
FS: Jimmie Ward; Lorenzo Jerome
SS: Eric Reid; Jaquiski Tartt

...but like you note, lots of questions on whether or not they can play to their abilities and how far have they grown since last year. Just look at all the new roles: DJ could now be a starter with a rookie behind him, Williams is proven in the NFL but Redmond may have more upside (watch that battle closely), Robinson seems poised to be our #1 but is HE ready to face other team's #1 WR, Ward's best years in college were at FS but now he's playing the premium FS role here (the Earl Thomas single-high FS role) and Reid, is moving from FS to SS (watch that battle with Tartt).

So, lots of question marks but I'm loving that players now appear to be put in their best positions/strengths and in a more simplified defensive scheme with an emphasis on gang tackling and aggressive tactics.

It's hard to guestimate how they'll all fare and even more so, behind our front 7.

Cam Newton hasn't even started throwing this off season. Saleh teaching our boys Petes grab tricks as an extra bonus as well.

Got a laugh out of that one, Smokes.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Good post NC, and i get it. But for the front 7, we may not know who starts where, but we sure know who our front 7 is going to be in base and passing downs. But DBs? The more acquisitions, the more i get the feeling that our front 7 is going to be awesome, but our back 4 are going to just be there...will they work out ? That i can't see ....YET. And sure our wipeout in 2015 changed everything, esp DBs. But since then, some fans have been impressed with several DBs ...but i just am not there yet. So the more the merrier for the time being. Put another way, i am really excited about our front 7 plus some rotational talent. At DBs, whatever they contribute will be welcome. That is about as warm as i can get.

Gotcha...it's certainly a viable concern. I don't know if there is much question in the talent and upside of them:

RCB: Dontae Johnson; Ahkello Witherspoon
S/CB: K'Waun Williams; Will Redmond
LCB: Rashard Robinson
FS: Jimmie Ward; Lorenzo Jerome
SS: Eric Reid; Jaquiski Tartt

...but like you note, lots of questions on whether or not they can play to their abilities and how far have they grown since last year. Just look at all the new roles: DJ could now be a starter with a rookie behind him, Williams is proven in the NFL but Redmond may have more upside (watch that battle closely), Robinson seems poised to be our #1 but is HE ready to face other team's #1 WR, Ward's best years in college were at FS but now he's playing the premium FS role here (the Earl Thomas single-high FS role) and Reid, is moving from FS to SS (watch that battle with Tartt).

So, lots of question marks but I'm loving that players now appear to be put in their best positions/strengths and in a more simplified defensive scheme with an emphasis on gang tackling and aggressive tactics.

It's hard to guestimate how they'll all fare and even more so, behind our front 7.

Cam Newton hasn't even started throwing this off season. Saleh teaching our boys Petes grab tricks as an extra bonus as well.

Got a laugh out of that one, Smokes.

I'm a huge believer in momentum. I don't wanna look past the first 3 games. Carolina week one, if Ron doesn't get them back in the playoffs he probably gets fired and they get an offensive minded HC up in there.

Signing Dumervil just made our dbacks look better. If we have ANY pressure on third downs it will help our DBs. Good lord if he works out we might just have a watchable defense this year. A better d line should stop the express lane for the opposing RBs and if we have an actual pass rush? Crap I think I feel a tingle.

Ok, I've been a fan of Dumervil for yrs, and adding him, at a question mark position, was a very wise move. Get one guy who knows how to play the position , and you can only help the weakness of the position. ERs are one of the areas we just weren't able to get to this yr, tho i certainly do like film of DJ Jones. Athletic, strong, truly a NT, but going around corners and quickness....others may not like him at ER but i sure do. Sure like to see him get reps there, and to my knowledge he has. For a big guy is VERY quick for a guy 315 lbs. But again, no pro experience, and only film to look at .

I think that having good coaching and having a much improved D Line esp a pass rusher like Dumervil (if healthy) makes the whole thing click.

30 passing TDs and only 10 picks last year.

Expect those numbers to be more realigned this year.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Ok, I've been a fan of Dumervil for yrs, and adding him, at a question mark position, was a very wise move. Get one guy who knows how to play the position , and you can only help the weakness of the position. ERs are one of the areas we just weren't able to get to this yr, tho i certainly do like film of DJ Jones. Athletic, strong, truly a NT, but going around corners and quickness....others may not like him at ER but i sure do. Sure like to see him get reps there, and to my knowledge he has. For a big guy is VERY quick for a guy 315 lbs. But again, no pro experience, and only film to look at .

Our edge rush was non existent , our d line was an express lane. Improving both of those through personnel, scheme, and coaching will make our secondary look better. I like our chances with Dumervil sliding in on passing downs and mentoring the youngsters. I don't want to derail the secondary thread but they just got some help.The QB is not going to have all day to throw every play, and with the new d line, if we can slow down that turn stile a little...and even a get bit better TOP from the offense so our guys aren't running out of gas...

The opposition quarterback will no longer have "ALL DAY" to throw the ball.

Hence the defensive backs will be able to defend.