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Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Would you rather be a Dolphins fan in the 80's watching Marino throw for 5000 yards each year or an Eagles fan and watch Foles lift the trophy?
So Nick Foles is better than Marino? That's the statement you're making.
Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Ya, it sucked seeing him leave but winning that trophy meant more to me than an individual player.
That was a TEAM. I'm not sure we win in 2019 with him. He was pretty toxic.
Originally posted by SweetOJ:
Amazing how fragile people are. Yes, we all are emotional when our team loses, especially in the biggest game. Hell I didn't sleep well for 2 days after the last Super Bowl loss.
That doesn't mean that it makes any sense whatsoever to scapegoat Kyle and Kyle only because you are butthurt about getting so close but not quite winning it all. If you watched the game, the Niners were clearly the better team. But when there are 7 fumbles in the game and one team recovers 6 of them, the odds of winning are near 0%. Kittle was clearly nowhere near healthy, nor was Deebo, and Greenlaw hit the lottery in reverse tearing his achilles simply running on the field.
Yet with all of this unimaginably bad luck, we still got into overtime because Kyle and the team he built were that much better than the Chiefs. The only problem is if your luck is bad enough, you have nearly no chance to succeed. Yes, it's a gladitorial game and sometimes you can overcome a bad hand. But you can't win a poker tournament if you can't even draw a pair on any hand. Sometimes the football gods are just cruel, but if you can't handle that, don't watch.
The misplaced anger that people have about Kyle because he's the easiest target is so maddening to me. It's just a total loser mentality. It's not being mature enough to understand that you are so mad that your team lost that you need someone to villify. You say insanse things like he's incapable of winning it all when the reality is if he'd didn't have luck so incredibly bad that nobody could overcome it, he'd already have a ring and your self-pitying narrative would be destroyed.
Don't get me wrong - he may never win the Super Bowl. But that's because it's really hard to win one and it takes at least as much luck as skill to win it all. If this were not true, the last team to lead the league in DVOA and win the Super Bowl would not be Seattle in 2013. Mock DVOA all you want, but we do not have a better metric to determine who is good and who is bad that a situationally based broad group of statistics tested over the years. Great football teams lose to inferior ones all the damn time, and when it happens it's inevitable, not a reason to get rid of a proven winner. The Niners were stastically the best team in football in 2019 and 2023, and the hottest team in 2022 until again historically bad luck hit with the Purdy and Josh Johnson injuries in the NFCCG. But again, the statistically best team has not won it all in 11 years.
We all fall victim to our feelings at time, and there is a best selling book called the Righteous Mind that connects just how emotional we all are. Human beings are not logical, we have gut feelling/intuitions and the precious logic we all feel we run on is actually only used to confirm our intutions. The author uses a metaphor to call our intuitions an elephant, because it's a huge animal that is among the most intelligent in the world. Our logic is the rider of the elephant. A human rider can train an elephant to perform certain behaviors through careful training and nuturing. However if the elephant is worked up enough, all the rider can do is hang on because the elephant cannot be overpowered, it can only be coaxed by the rider to take logical actions when the elephant is receptive.
Sports fans are fanatics who believe they are rational, but are actually far more emotional than they realize. They use confirmation bias to overemphasize the stats that confirm their position while ignoring or minimizing the relevance of facts that don't fit their narrative.
The more Niner fans actually use logic, have patience, and have any control of our emotions, the more they support Kyle because the actual data supports that he is a very good, if not great coach.
If we refuse to live in the real world, and are only satisfied with winning the Super Bowl because we live in an egocentric world where our team is special, Bill Walsh's success somehow means Kyle is not good, and we fans "deserve" a chamopinship, we'll be disapppointed nearly every year. If we are foolsih/petty/childish/emotional enough to not tolerate losing a Super Bowl or two in the pursuit of winning one, we'll be adamant that someone/anyone else would give us a better chance. But that would more be based on feelings than facts. Then we will die on the hill of pretending that he can't do what he's be inches from doing multiple times only to have historically bad luck doom him, especially in 2022 and 2023. We'll passionately construct stories in which Kyle is the villian and steer the narrative towards him being too stubborn, too conservative, too whatever made us lose in hindsight to ever win a championship.
All of this comes back to this - being a fan of a contender nearly ends in heartbreak nearly every season. Only one team can win it all, and in football it's usually the team that stays healthy and recovers the fumbles in the biggest games. If you are too weak to handle that, you'll keep blaming the coach. You will believe in your heart that you "just know" things that are unknowable in advance. And history may prove you right. But that's doesn't mean your argument makes any sense whatsoever.
The data suggests you toughen up. Realize how lucky you are to have a coach that has his team contending nearly every year. Realize there may be no coach that gives you a better chance to get what you want so badly. Stop trying to distance yourself from Kyle because it feels like he hurt you and you want revenge.
Realize that all of this is just misplaced anger because you didn't get what you want and you need someone to blame for it.
Originally posted by DrEll:
Winning a ring buys you 10 years on a team. It's why Harbaugh stuck around in Baltimore and Tomlin still has a gig in Pittsburgh (he's way past the 10 year mark since his last one that's why the fans want him out). Reid was in Philly for 14 years and I don't think their fan have any regrets the team got rid of him. Shanahan about to hit the 10 year mark with no rings and this fanbase is content with giving him another 10 years at it.
Tomlin (19 seasons, last SB 2008 win, SB loss 2011) - fans want him out.
Reid (13 seasons, last SB 2023 win, 3 wins / 2 losses) — job safe
McDermott (9 seasons, 0 SB) — fans want out
McVay (9 seasons, last SB win 2022, SB loss 2018) — job safe
Shanahan (9 season, 0 SB) — fans want long term contract.
the only 2 coaches with that kind of tenure with ZERO SB rings are McDermott and Shanahan. McDermott looks like he will likely be gone in a year if he doesn't get one. Kyle fan want him to have an indefinite access because he keeps winning regular season games. Something seems wrong with this picture…
Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Yall still entertaining this guy?
Hurry!! Rally the clansmen and get the pitch forks!!! Someone is criticizing Kyle Shanahan.
Originally posted by boast:
Originally posted by RickyRoma:
It's biblically idiotic the lengths some people will go to downgrade Shanahan as a HC.....the discussion isn't worth having with some of these people.
casual fans like Sask are the worst
Originally posted by DrEll:
Originally posted by boast:
Originally posted by RickyRoma:
It's biblically idiotic the lengths some people will go to downgrade Shanahan as a HC.....the discussion isn't worth having with some of these people.
casual fans like Sask are the worst
And what kind of fan are you ? Just wondering for reference sake…
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Yall still entertaining this guy?
Hurry!! Rally the clansmen and get the pitch forks!!! Someone is criticizing Kyle Shanahan.
No we just think your stance is hypocritical and full of holes. You're allowed to be critical.
You're allowed to be emotional about it….which imo I think you are, but you won't admit it. You toss out standards for Kyle that you don't apply to anyone else because it proves your dilemma with Kyle is emotionally based and not really objective or logical driven.
Kyle could coach his ass off this weekend and we lose on a bad penalty or poor player execution (yeah that exist), but you a long with the rest of the emotional Kyle haters club will be first up to bat to s**t on him.
Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Not better. But more successful.
I guess it depends how much you value winning Championships.
Originally posted by DrEll:
This sounds like a setup for this Sunday. Bringing back SB vibes (if Greenlaw doesn't get hurt we win, if Burford makes the block we win)
Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Originally posted by SweetOJ:
Amazing how fragile people are. Yes, we all are emotional when our team loses, especially in the biggest game. Hell I didn't sleep well for 2 days after the last Super Bowl loss.
That doesn't mean that it makes any sense whatsoever to scapegoat Kyle and Kyle only because you are butthurt about getting so close but not quite winning it all. If you watched the game, the Niners were clearly the better team. But when there are 7 fumbles in the game and one team recovers 6 of them, the odds of winning are near 0%. Kittle was clearly nowhere near healthy, nor was Deebo, and Greenlaw hit the lottery in reverse tearing his achilles simply running on the field.
Yet with all of this unimaginably bad luck, we still got into overtime because Kyle and the team he built were that much better than the Chiefs. The only problem is if your luck is bad enough, you have nearly no chance to succeed. Yes, it's a gladitorial game and sometimes you can overcome a bad hand. But you can't win a poker tournament if you can't even draw a pair on any hand. Sometimes the football gods are just cruel, but if you can't handle that, don't watch.
The misplaced anger that people have about Kyle because he's the easiest target is so maddening to me. It's just a total loser mentality. It's not being mature enough to understand that you are so mad that your team lost that you need someone to villify. You say insanse things like he's incapable of winning it all when the reality is if he'd didn't have luck so incredibly bad that nobody could overcome it, he'd already have a ring and your self-pitying narrative would be destroyed.
Don't get me wrong - he may never win the Super Bowl. But that's because it's really hard to win one and it takes at least as much luck as skill to win it all. If this were not true, the last team to lead the league in DVOA and win the Super Bowl would not be Seattle in 2013. Mock DVOA all you want, but we do not have a better metric to determine who is good and who is bad that a situationally based broad group of statistics tested over the years. Great football teams lose to inferior ones all the damn time, and when it happens it's inevitable, not a reason to get rid of a proven winner. The Niners were stastically the best team in football in 2019 and 2023, and the hottest team in 2022 until again historically bad luck hit with the Purdy and Josh Johnson injuries in the NFCCG. But again, the statistically best team has not won it all in 11 years.
We all fall victim to our feelings at time, and there is a best selling book called the Righteous Mind that connects just how emotional we all are. Human beings are not logical, we have gut feelling/intuitions and the precious logic we all feel we run on is actually only used to confirm our intutions. The author uses a metaphor to call our intuitions an elephant, because it's a huge animal that is among the most intelligent in the world. Our logic is the rider of the elephant. A human rider can train an elephant to perform certain behaviors through careful training and nuturing. However if the elephant is worked up enough, all the rider can do is hang on because the elephant cannot be overpowered, it can only be coaxed by the rider to take logical actions when the elephant is receptive.
Sports fans are fanatics who believe they are rational, but are actually far more emotional than they realize. They use confirmation bias to overemphasize the stats that confirm their position while ignoring or minimizing the relevance of facts that don't fit their narrative.
The more Niner fans actually use logic, have patience, and have any control of our emotions, the more they support Kyle because the actual data supports that he is a very good, if not great coach.
If we refuse to live in the real world, and are only satisfied with winning the Super Bowl because we live in an egocentric world where our team is special, Bill Walsh's success somehow means Kyle is not good, and we fans "deserve" a chamopinship, we'll be disapppointed nearly every year. If we are foolsih/petty/childish/emotional enough to not tolerate losing a Super Bowl or two in the pursuit of winning one, we'll be adamant that someone/anyone else would give us a better chance. But that would more be based on feelings than facts. Then we will die on the hill of pretending that he can't do what he's be inches from doing multiple times only to have historically bad luck doom him, especially in 2022 and 2023. We'll passionately construct stories in which Kyle is the villian and steer the narrative towards him being too stubborn, too conservative, too whatever made us lose in hindsight to ever win a championship.
All of this comes back to this - being a fan of a contender nearly ends in heartbreak nearly every season. Only one team can win it all, and in football it's usually the team that stays healthy and recovers the fumbles in the biggest games. If you are too weak to handle that, you'll keep blaming the coach. You will believe in your heart that you "just know" things that are unknowable in advance. And history may prove you right. But that's doesn't mean your argument makes any sense whatsoever.
The data suggests you toughen up. Realize how lucky you are to have a coach that has his team contending nearly every year. Realize there may be no coach that gives you a better chance to get what you want so badly. Stop trying to distance yourself from Kyle because it feels like he hurt you and you want revenge.
Realize that all of this is just misplaced anger because you didn't get what you want and you need someone to blame for it.
Thats a long post.
I could care less if a donkey is coaching this team if it meant we won a SB.
Originally posted by SweetOJ:
You proved my point. Kyle's the easy target and you live in a simple world where the best teams win despite the numerous examples I gave about how that just doesn't happen in football.
If only we could make Kyle luckier. And of course we know his bad luck in the past will continue.
You live in world where it's easy to win the SB despite 31 other teams. Add in the inherent luck involved in a game with an odd shaped ball, only about 10 possesions/team in a game, and where the tournament is single elimination. The best teams usually win in the other major sports because it's the best of 7, there are far less injuries in the other sports, and way more scoring opportunities.
I don't know if you realize it, but what you're saying is you want to get lucky. Believe me we all want the same thing. But some of us aren't myopic about it. We realize the tremendous amount of luck that's involved, and that the coach only contol a small # of the variables that dictate a team's destiny.
Keep believing it's Kyle's fault that the Chiefs fumbled 5 times yet recovered 4 of them, and that the Niners fumbled only twice but lost both.
Keep believing Purdy's injury still happens if the ref doesn't miss the fact the Devonta didn't catch the bomb on 4th down and put us on the unluckiest path you can imagine.
As illogical as curses are, believing the team is cursed is easier to support than the premise that Kyle is the problem.
