John Lynch - 49ers GM

Plus sometimes, you don't know, they maybe eyeing a player, but the board didn't fall there way and the player they wanted got swooped out under them. That is the only you will never here another teams talk about to the press we wanted this player but so and so stole him from us-at least not publicly, until they retire.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
That's the damn problem; they really don't go bpa. I wasn't a fan of the Stribling pick, but he looks promising. It's still frustrating the reason they drafted him is because their other WR didn't work out. We can all nitpick every angle, but end of the day they simply need to draft better, especially with the higher rounds.

I was "okay" with the stribling pick after the trade downs.

BA didn't work out because he's a nut job, not because he can't ball. Ricky just can't stay healthy, he's pretty damn good when he plays. Overall I think they can evaluate the WR position pretty well.

overall I just think the coaches have too much of a say on who the picks will be….I mean maybe it's like that elsewhere, but we basically gave Saleh carte blanche on the 2025 draft and he was here for a year.

I agree, but also admit I don't know how much say coaches have vs scouts and vs league norms. It's fair discussion though. Injuries and mental health certainly aren't a direct negative on their drafting, it's just insanely bad luck, but ultimately counts as a miss. When I saw the news about Collins I just laughed. What else can we do at this point?

Guys like Ricky P, how would his trajectory be if had not gone to the park and got shot? Would he be this injured?

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I agree, but also admit I don't know how much say coaches have vs scouts and vs league norms. It's fair discussion though. Injuries and mental health certainly aren't a direct negative on their drafting, it's just insanely bad luck, but ultimately counts as a miss. When I saw the news about Collins I just laughed. What else can we do at this point?

Collins problem started when he held out for a long time before signing. At the end of the season he showed good progress. I would have to ask what was conditioning regiment during the off season.

A lot of teams can hit in the later rounds. Rams Puka- Raiders Crosby.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I'd be really curious how most teams draft process works, between the scouts/coaches/front office etc. With us, it seems to me like the coaches have a huge say in who gets drafted.

For example, Our LB coach with Dugger. I wonder if the process was that a scout loved dugger and some other guys, then showed the position coach, then they lobbied for them with the front office. or is it just the coaches look over players and find the ones they "love" and they push that, then the front office takes that into account and the scout report?

Idk, but i've said it for years - it's odd we typically draft really well in the late rounds but poorly in the first 3 rounds (Super hit or miss with players). that is statistically wild over a 10 year period. I'd love to know what they do different with their process from the first few rounds to the second part. If they do anything different at all, idk.

I get that most draft picks across the league will suck or not make it, every team misses on most of their picks, but I find the niners turnouts to be so odd.

Yeah it would be interesting to see how it all goes down on another team…this is just a total guess but we seem to throw BPA in the trash the first 3 rds. Heavily geared towards need and positional value. Like they would draft the 9th ranked DE over the 3rd ranked IOL. I think as you go into day 3 of the draft we're not seeing as much reaching and it's more BPA…shocking the results equal more hits, even if most of those hits aren't at premium positions most times.

BPA is different for every team, though. No team is using media created BPA lists. So there's zero way to know whether they disregard BPA or not, because nobody but they know who they consider BPA.

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I'd be really curious how most teams draft process works, between the scouts/coaches/front office etc. With us, it seems to me like the coaches have a huge say in who gets drafted.

For example, Our LB coach with Dugger. I wonder if the process was that a scout loved dugger and some other guys, then showed the position coach, then they lobbied for them with the front office. or is it just the coaches look over players and find the ones they "love" and they push that, then the front office takes that into account and the scout report?

Idk, but i've said it for years - it's odd we typically draft really well in the late rounds but poorly in the first 3 rounds (Super hit or miss with players). that is statistically wild over a 10 year period. I'd love to know what they do different with their process from the first few rounds to the second part. If they do anything different at all, idk.

I get that most draft picks across the league will suck or not make it, every team misses on most of their picks, but I find the niners turnouts to be so odd.

Yeah it would be interesting to see how it all goes down on another team…this is just a total guess but we seem to throw BPA in the trash the first 3 rds. Heavily geared towards need and positional value. Like they would draft the 9th ranked DE over the 3rd ranked IOL. I think as you go into day 3 of the draft we're not seeing as much reaching and it's more BPA…shocking the results equal more hits, even if most of those hits aren't at premium positions most times.

BPA is different for every team, though. No team is using media created BPA lists. So there's zero way to know whether they disregard BPA or not, because nobody but they know who they consider BPA.

It also depends on whether you consider your team to be a contender or if you're in a rebuild. Teams thst are in constat rebuild are mor elikely to take best player because they need to fill more positions. The Niners are often just trying to replace somene that left or fill an obvious need. They aren't going to take a player with a high pick that's going to sit behind an establshed player.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
It also depends on whether you consider your team to be a contender or if you're in a rebuild. Teams thst are in constat rebuild are mor elikely to take best player because they need to fill more positions. The Niners are often just trying to replace somene that left or fill an obvious need. They aren't going to take a player with a high pick that's going to sit behind an establshed player.

We should be drafting BPA at a position of need.

Instead we reach on players in the first round every year passing on players who would be immediate upgrades.

-Javon Kinlaw over Tristin Wirfs
-Ricky Pearsall over Cooper DeJean
-Mykel Williams over Tyler Booker
-Trey Lance over Jamaar Chase, Penei Sewell, Micah Parsons and Rashawn Slater

or drafting RB's and a K in the 3rd

These guys get in their own way. They over draft guys every year and pass on a better player at a position of need

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
It also depends on whether you consider your team to be a contender or if you're in a rebuild. Teams thst are in constat rebuild are mor elikely to take best player because they need to fill more positions. The Niners are often just trying to replace somene that left or fill an obvious need. They aren't going to take a player with a high pick that's going to sit behind an establshed player.

We should be drafting BPA at a position of need.

Instead we reach on players in the first round every year passing on players who would be immediate upgrades.

-Javon Kinlaw over Tristin Wirfs
-Ricky Pearsall over Cooper DeJean
-Mykel Williams over Tyler Booker
-Trey Lance over Jamaar Chase, Penei Sewell, Micah Parsons and Rashawn Slater

or drafting RB's and a K in the 3rd

These guys get in their own way. They over draft guys every year and pass on a better player at a position of need

They drafted Lance because he was viewed as a player at a position of need. JG couldn't stay healthy so they felt they needed a replacement. They had Trent Williams so they didn't view tackle as a need at that time. Same for Parsons because the had Bosa. You're projecting your desires and looking at the results after the fact. Teams don't have that luxury. They need to make a decision based on their internal evaluation and they don't get do overs. This isn't fanstasy football.

Interesting that none of the players you named have played on a SB team except DeJean and the Eagles and they didn't win because of him.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
They drafted Lance because he was viewed as a player at a position of need. JG couldn't stay healthy so they felt they needed a replacement. They had Trent Williams so they didn't view tackle as a need at that time. Same for Parsons because the had Bosa. You're projecting your desires and looking at the results after the fact. Teams don't have that luxury. They need to make a decision based on their internal evaluation and they don't get do overs. This isn't fanstasy football.

Interesting that none of the players you named have played on a SB team except DeJean and the Eagles and they didn't win because of hi

Amazing how you can sugar coat the Lance pick. Might be next to Leaf as one of the worst all time.

DeJean over Pearsall. Yes please. Our secondary is one of the worst positional groups on the team. Pearsall was in the mix because they let the BA situation get out of hand. So we compound bad decisions.

Kinlaw....disaster....anybody else. If all else take Wirfs put him at RT, replace McWiff or McKivitz and now your inulsated from TW last minute holdouts.

Of ya, and lets draft a mediocre punter and kicker......RBs wow......beyond bad. Hopefully Black is an outlier.

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
We should be drafting BPA at a position of need.

Instead we reach on players in the first round every year passing on players who would be immediate upgrades.

-Javon Kinlaw over Tristin Wirfs
-Ricky Pearsall over Cooper DeJean
-Mykel Williams over Tyler Booker
-Trey Lance over Jamaar Chase, Penei Sewell, Micah Parsons and Rashawn Slater

or drafting RB's and a K in the 3rd

These guys get in their own way. They over draft guys every year and pass on a better player at a position of need

Meh you're cherry picking with those examples and acting like the guys they drafted didn't have similar draft grades.

Kinlaw was looked at as a top 2 DT in that draft
SF isn't gonna draft a NCB over a WR.
Williams was regarded as a top 15 player and was top 5 the yr prior on draft boards. Stop acting like they would draft a OG top 11 let alone over a DL.
Lance was also regarded as a top 15 pick and let's keep s**t real, QB need >> everything else.

Look I get what you're saying with sticking to the overall draft board (based off draft analysts) but the hindsight look how easy it should be examples are silly…you can do that for every single team in every draft.

Originally posted by TD49ers:
Amazing how you can sugar coat the Lance pick. Might be next to Leaf as one of the worst all time.

DeJean over Pearsall. Yes please. Our secondary is one of the worst positional groups on the team. Pearsall was in the mix because they let the BA situation get out of hand. So we compound bad decisions.

Kinlaw....disaster....anybody else. If all else take Wirfs put him at RT, replace McWiff or McKivitz and now your inulsated from TW last minute holdouts.

Of ya, and lets draft a mediocre punter and kicker......RBs wow......beyond bad. Hopefully Black is an outlier.

The after the fact see I'm right s**t is always funny (we all do it).

It doesn't matter who they draft if they can't keep these guys healthy. Alfred Collins could have been a slam-dunk perennial all-pro caliber player and it wouldn't matter if his patellar tendon is torn. Looking at the last several DL we've drafted, I feel sorry for them. This franchise has systematically ground them up and given them no shot at developing.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
It doesn't matter who they draft if they can't keep these guys healthy. Alfred Collins could have been a slam-dunk perennial all-pro caliber player and it wouldn't matter if his patellar tendon is torn. Looking at the last several DL we've drafted, I feel sorry for them. This franchise has systematically ground them up and given them no shot at developing.

Perhaps you could explain your last line, because without an explanation it looks like absolute garbage. How have the team ground up players?

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
It doesn't matter who they draft if they can't keep these guys healthy. Alfred Collins could have been a slam-dunk perennial all-pro caliber player and it wouldn't matter if his patellar tendon is torn. Looking at the last several DL we've drafted, I feel sorry for them. This franchise has systematically ground them up and given them no shot at developing.

Perhaps you could explain your last line, because without an explanation it looks like absolute garbage. How have the team ground up players?

What else can you call it? The proof is in the results. Just look at our recent draft history and specifically our recent d-line picks. Many of them had no significant injury history before we drafted them and yet almost all of them have struggled to stay healthy once they got here. Both of the d-linemen that we've taken in the 2nd round recently have torn their patellar tendons (most likely ending Drake Jackson's chance at a career). The entire league only averages 4 patellar tendon tears a year.

How long does this have to keep happening for it to not just be bad luck? We're doing something wrong systematically. I'm sure lots of people have other hypotheses on why it's happening, but it doesn't appear that the team has invested enough resources in figuring it out for whatever reason.