John Lynch - 49ers GM

Imagine If the 9ers had been a little more aggressive to begin with and used some of those first round draft picks to acquire quality players, Instead of taking a gamble on unproven talent, Solly, Foster, MM. Ect. Who knows, maybe we'd have have won a super bowl by now. Some missed opportunities there Imo. At least we're competitive though, surely that count for something.

Originally posted by Sickaa:
Imagine If the 9ers had been a little more aggressive to begin with and used some of those first round draft picks to acquire quality players, Instead of taking a gamble on unproven talent, Solly, Foster, MM. Ect. Who knows, maybe we'd have have won a super bowl by now. Some missed opportunities there Imo. At least we're competitive though, surely that count for something.

I ultimately blame Bill Belichick. If he doesn't trade us Jimmy G we would have likely traded up for the QB Kyle reportedly wanted in Josh Allen.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not sure if I see an "end" to a strategy they've done for the past 4 years successfully. Trade away and not have to pay for first rounders to secure high end veterans who stay healthy at premium positions. Extending "their own" like Aaron Donald is something every team would do. With the cap rising, I would imagine, as long as they can maintain their core, they'll just reload in the same fashion when it's time to lose a core player...trade him away and trade more first round picks to secure another high end veteran and continue to draft well from the 2nd round on and develop well. It's just a modern day way of staying ahead of the cap and team building. Every team loses 2-5 players a year. They aren't losing anymore than anyone else IMHO.

The caveat is they remain the healthiest team in the NFL. If they lose one core player, they could be done. Health is the real reason this works. We could never employ this strategy. LOL

Exactly, the Rams ain't going away anytime soon. They're going to keep reloading every few years. I really fell for the "this will bite them in the ass" notion back in 2018 and laughed at their team-building approach. Fast forward to today with a SB championship in the bag and lined up for a repeat, I'm no longer laughing.

Ahh yes I remember thinking they were screwed with that Todd Gurley contract cause all the cap people said they were screwed.

NY dropped a video in the cap thread and the expert in the video pointed out several things they do. One thing was that the Rams do not hesitate on realizing a mistake paying the cash and just taking the cap hit immediately. They move on while most teams restructure and prolong the situation. Then they extend their key guys as early as possible to lower cap immediate cap hits. Look how fast they just moved off of Cooks, Gurley, Goff, and Woods contracts And replaced them with better and in some cases cheaper players.

I don't think the cap strategy got them the Lombardi, it was rather good coaching and good player evaluations. Look at Seattle and their situation. I think they tried (to a certain extent) the same strategy as the Rams but because they suck at player evaluations (and drafting) -- they are bottom feeders now. Realizing a mistake and paying cash and taking the cap hit, is bass ackwards to me. I'd rather trust Kyle's player evaluations and player development skills - and use those number 1 picks for long term development and cap stability. Patriots, I think, have the most similar cap strategy to the 49ers. It's feast or famine with regards to the Rams.

But several of their "core" was added via trade or FA that got them over the top and then, like you said, good player evaluations and development of players from the 2nd round on and their #1 injury history allows players to stay playing next to each other and grow and develop properly through good coaching.

If they decide to move on from say, Ramsey, they'll trade him, get his salary off the books, then reload and target another top CB who's younger and use a first rounder if they have too.

The Rams strategy *can* and *does* work. However, I don't see anything different from the Carmen Policy/Siefert cap strategy in 1994 vs the Rams in 2022. I just don't like having to go through cap hell every other year. For example, we added Dion Sanders (among other stars) and got Lombardi #5. It was *after Lombardi #5* when cap hell occurred. What bit Seifert in the butt was unable to draft well (Dexter Carter ), ironically, on defense (he could never replace Charles Haley). Once Mike left, and Trestman took over, Seifert couldn't even coach the offense he was a witness to for almost two decades. Contrast that with Bellicheat, when his OC died, *he* took over the offense and led to (I think) Patriot Lombardi #2. Which leads me to the point about good player evaluations and player development more than the cap strategy in and of itself.

You can trade the players, but those sunk costs (the guaranteed bonuses that have already been paid) don't just go away without more. Those either have to be accelerated, and taken all at once, or spread out via consent of contract with the player. In other words, it has to be accounted for, it just doesn't disappear and vanish into thin air at a waive of a free agent contract pen. *Somebody* has to account for it. Jalen's, Staffords, and Donald's prorated bonuses are upwards of 30+ million next year and several years thereafter. Example: Richburg is costing us 3.4 million this year and he hasn't played since 2019 and retired sometime thereafter.

That Ram cap strategy isn't going to cost them much right now, so long as they don't start misfiring on their player evaluations and the draft. So long as they draft well, they can stay a bit ahead of the cap reckoning, but eventually it will catch up to them, as it caught up to us towards the latter half of the '90's and Seadderall last year. Again the Rams strategy *can* and *does* work. We did it in 1994. I just don't like the feast and famine, boom and bust, nature of that strategy. It leads to all sorts of secondary complications - and a possible loss of our genius Coach if he goes sub .500 due to the famine side of that strategy. I prefer the long term Dynastic approach that the Patriots have proven, which also works.

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not sure if I see an "end" to a strategy they've done for the past 4 years successfully. Trade away and not have to pay for first rounders to secure high end veterans who stay healthy at premium positions. Extending "their own" like Aaron Donald is something every team would do. With the cap rising, I would imagine, as long as they can maintain their core, they'll just reload in the same fashion when it's time to lose a core player...trade him away and trade more first round picks to secure another high end veteran and continue to draft well from the 2nd round on and develop well. It's just a modern day way of staying ahead of the cap and team building. Every team loses 2-5 players a year. They aren't losing anymore than anyone else IMHO.

The caveat is they remain the healthiest team in the NFL. If they lose one core player, they could be done. Health is the real reason this works. We could never employ this strategy. LOL

Exactly, the Rams ain't going away anytime soon. They're going to keep reloading every few years. I really fell for the "this will bite them in the ass" notion back in 2018 and laughed at their team-building approach. Fast forward to today with a SB championship in the bag and lined up for a repeat, I'm no longer laughing.

Ahh yes I remember thinking they were screwed with that Todd Gurley contract cause all the cap people said they were screwed.

NY dropped a video in the cap thread and the expert in the video pointed out several things they do. One thing was that the Rams do not hesitate on realizing a mistake paying the cash and just taking the cap hit immediately. They move on while most teams restructure and prolong the situation. Then they extend their key guys as early as possible to lower cap immediate cap hits. Look how fast they just moved off of Cooks, Gurley, Goff, and Woods contracts And replaced them with better and in some cases cheaper players.

I don't think the cap strategy got them the Lombardi, it was rather good coaching and good player evaluations. Look at Seattle and their situation. I think they tried (to a certain extent) the same strategy as the Rams but because they suck at player evaluations (and drafting) -- they are bottom feeders now. Realizing a mistake and paying cash and taking the cap hit, is bass ackwards to me. I'd rather trust Kyle's player evaluations and player development skills - and use those number 1 picks for long term development and cap stability. Patriots, I think, have the most similar cap strategy to the 49ers. It's feast or famine with regards to the Rams.

Of course it did. They wouldn't have Matt Stafford, Miller or Ramsay. That takes nothing away from their good coaching and player evaluation. Look how great they do without having 1st round picks. Majority of their starters were draft picks. The key is extending the right young guys. I don't see comparison between them and Seattle. Seattle is heavily into draft and developing outside of trading for Adams. Rams traded for a QB, CB, and pass rusher. No team has mortgaged 1st round picks like the Rams. Every team makes mistakes. In some cases a team would hope a guy can find his former self but it doesn't work out that way all the time. See Dee Ford. then you end up extending and restructuring guys. That in the end just bog down your cap year after year. Then you gotta extend the guy again or if he takes less money then you have to add in the injury clause guarantee. A lot of the times it's better to just cut bait take the cap hit for a year and then move on. Prolonging your mistake doesn't make it better.

That is more a player evaluation vs a cap strategy in my opinion. I think it was a coaching decision to get Matt Stafford, not so much a cap strategy. Matt's cap hit was pretty darn big, and so if cap strategy was ruling - they would never have gone to get Matt because of that huge cap hit. So I disagree that it was a primary cap strategy to get Matt. That was a coaching and player evaluation decision vs a cap decision. Having said that, the Ram cap strategy will be how to mitigate all the upcoming dead money that needs to be dissipated from the Rams cap system (like how your radiator cools your car).

As for Seadderall, I don't follow any team outside of the 49ers very closely, but I do know that Seattle has traded away their number 1 picks in 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2017. So they definitely aren't shy about trading their first round picks for veteran players, sort of like the Rams. As NC said, as long as the team stays healthy and drafts well - a team can stay ahead of the cap to a certain extent, but the margins for safety are razor thin. One of the many reasons Seadderall is now a bottom feeder team is that Russel Midget got hurt and they employed the Rams feast and famine strategy.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Good point. And they've been the healthiest team too. So the idea they'll enter cap hell is probably a fallacy...we've been saying it for years now anyways, haven't we?

They'll just keep running with the formula, IMHO.

I like talking about different team building philosophies...and this one is on the opposite extreme from ours.

Most of those drafted starters aren't that good though. Lot of average to below average starters. If they get an injury to Aaron Donald there defense becomes instantly mediocre.

There strategy is have enough stars to compensate for the mediocrity on the rest of the roster.

Very true people don't realize their defense was ranked 16th in the NFL and that is very very bad. Considering the stars they have. They are plain and simple lucky. Lucky that the Niners were so injured when they played us in the championship game because we always own them with major injuries on our side of the ball where they have little to none. They don't draft that well at all, they just are a very healthy team with mediocre players that are liabilities on defense except for 3-4 players.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not sure if I see an "end" to a strategy they've done for the past 4 years successfully. Trade away and not have to pay for first rounders to secure high end veterans who stay healthy at premium positions. Extending "their own" like Aaron Donald is something every team would do. With the cap rising, I would imagine, as long as they can maintain their core, they'll just reload in the same fashion when it's time to lose a core player...trade him away and trade more first round picks to secure another high end veteran and continue to draft well from the 2nd round on and develop well. It's just a modern day way of staying ahead of the cap and team building. Every team loses 2-5 players a year. They aren't losing anymore than anyone else IMHO.

The caveat is they remain the healthiest team in the NFL. If they lose one core player, they could be done. Health is the real reason this works. We could never employ this strategy. LOL

Exactly. Well said, hear hear

Originally posted by Giedi:
The Rams strategy *can* and *does* work. However, I don't see anything different from the Carmen Policy/Siefert cap strategy in 1994 vs the Rams in 2022. I just don't like having to go through cap hell every other year. For example, we added Dion Sanders (among other stars) and got Lombardi #5. It was *after Lombardi #5* when cap hell occurred. What bit Seifert in the butt was unable to draft well (Dexter Carter ), ironically, on defense (he could never replace Charles Haley). Once Mike left, and Trestman took over, Seifert couldn't even coach the offense he was a witness to for almost two decades. Contrast that with Bellicheat, when his OC died, *he* took over the offense and led to (I think) Patriot Lombardi #2. Which leads me to the point about good player evaluations and player development more than the cap strategy in and of itself.

You can trade the players, but those sunk costs (the guaranteed bonuses that have already been paid) don't just go away without more. Those either have to be accelerated, and taken all at once, or spread out via consent of contract with the player. In other words, it has to be accounted for, it just doesn't disappear and vanish into thin air at a waive of a free agent contract pen. *Somebody* has to account for it. Jalen's, Staffords, and Donald's prorated bonuses are upwards of 30+ million next year and several years thereafter. Example: Richburg is costing us 3.4 million this year and he hasn't played since 2019 and retired sometime thereafter.

That Ram cap strategy isn't going to cost them much right now, so long as they don't start misfiring on their player evaluations and the draft. So long as they draft well, they can stay a bit ahead of the cap reckoning, but eventually it will catch up to them, as it caught up to us towards the latter half of the '90's and Seadderall last year. Again the Rams strategy *can* and *does* work. We did it in 1994. I just don't like the feast and famine, boom and bust, nature of that strategy. It leads to all sorts of secondary complications - and a possible loss of our genius Coach if he goes sub .500 due to the famine side of that strategy. I prefer the long term Dynastic approach that the Patriots have proven, which also works.

I agree with your sentiment. And the Rams' philosophy does have risks. But every personnel philosophy comes with risks. I disagree with the bolded part though, because the Pats were able to do what they did primarily because of Brady, not primarily because of their philosophy. It's not so much about taking a dynasty approach, as it is maintaining long term competitiveness. While it seems the Rams may suffer from the famine potential, until it happens, the famine part is just that, potential.

Welcome to the rams forum.

Originally posted by pdizo916:
Welcome to the rams forum.

I'll help you feel more at home. Lamar Jackson is so overrated he's a RB who can barely throw. TJ Watt will go down as a better defender than Ray Lewis. Bengals we're a 1 hit wonder. Browns still gonna suck with Watson.

I love our strategy. I'm enjoying this team now more than ever. John/Kyle's first couple drafts haunted us for a bit, but they've crushed it for the most part. I think we have a top-5 roster, and perhaps the best roster if including depth.

Jimmy and Deebo offseason situations are a little stressful. If both get settled we are in good shape.

and f**k the rams.

Originally posted by 5thSFG:
I love our strategy. I'm enjoying this team now more than ever. John/Kyle's first couple drafts haunted us for a bit, but they've crushed it for the most part. I think we have a top-5 roster, and perhaps the best roster if including depth.

Jimmy and Deebo offseason situations are a little stressful. If both get settled we are in good shape.

and f**k the rams.

I think all three, Jimmy, Deebo, and Bosa, will be eventually resolved to everybody's satisfaction. I think Jimmy will go to a good team and the 49ers will get decent compensation for Jimmy, and get that cap space freed up to front load Deebo's eventual contract salary. Bosa will be signed for long term, and for sure, either next year or the year thereafter, ShanaLynch will probably draft a defensive pass rusher (interior or exterior) with their first pick again. As for our QB situation, if Trey is durable - like Steve Young was, Trey will progress in Kyle's system very fast and guys like Brock Purdy can be developed for player depth and also for possible future trades to get higher draft capital. Both Anthony Lynn and Demeco Ryan are pretty much a guarantee of four extra 3rd round picks by next year or the year after.

Looking at ESPN Insider's rankings, this is where the 49ers players land

Nick Bosa – 3rd EDGE

Arik Armstead – 8th IDL

Fred Warner – 3rd Off-Ball LB

Jimmie Ward – Honorable Mention at Safety

Deebo Samuel – 9th WR

George Kittle – 1st TE

Tackle is tomorrow, Trent Williams should be #1 IMO.

No FB, they're people too DAMNIT ESPN LOL

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Looking at ESPN Insider's rankings, this is where the 49ers players land

Nick Bosa – 3rd EDGE

Arik Armstead – 8th IDL

Fred Warner – 3rd Off-Ball LB

Jimmie Ward – Honorable Mention at Safety

Deebo Samuel – 9th WR

George Kittle – 1st TE

Tackle is tomorrow, Trent Williams should be #1 IMO.

No FB, they're people too DAMNIT ESPN LOL

Who were the 2 ahead of Warner?

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Looking at ESPN Insider's rankings, this is where the 49ers players land

Nick Bosa – 3rd EDGE

Arik Armstead – 8th IDL

Fred Warner – 3rd Off-Ball LB

Jimmie Ward – Honorable Mention at Safety

Deebo Samuel – 9th WR

George Kittle – 1st TE

Tackle is tomorrow, Trent Williams should be #1 IMO.

No FB, they're people too DAMNIT ESPN LOL

Who were the 2 ahead of Warner?

I was wondering the same. Leonard and Micah?

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Looking at ESPN Insider's rankings, this is where the 49ers players land

Nick Bosa – 3rd EDGE

Arik Armstead – 8th IDL

Fred Warner – 3rd Off-Ball LB

Jimmie Ward – Honorable Mention at Safety

Deebo Samuel – 9th WR

George Kittle – 1st TE

Tackle is tomorrow, Trent Williams should be #1 IMO.

No FB, they're people too DAMNIT ESPN LOL

Who were the 2 ahead of Warner?

I was wondering the same. Leonard and Micah?

Yep, in that order