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Jun 6, 2022 at 10:28 AM

5th best team in pass coverage over the last 3 years. Thanks John Lynch!
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Jun 6, 2022 at 10:49 AM
Originally posted by 49ersRing:

5th best team in pass coverage over the last 3 years. Thanks John Lynch!

but, but ,but why aren't they first?
Jun 6, 2022 at 10:54 AM
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,297
Originally posted by 49ersRing:

5th best team in pass coverage over the last 3 years. Thanks John Lynch!

I'd like to see how they grade this. Seems extremely subjective.
Jun 6, 2022 at 10:59 AM
Kyle playing 4d chess. If he makes John give a post game speech about fighting through adversity and not quitting, he knows John wont quit
Jun 6, 2022 at 11:19 AM
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Originally posted by 49ersRing:

John Lynch must really love the game and being part of a team to turn down $15 million.

Yessir it's called competitive fire and love of the game. You don't get that sitting in the booth like you're Joe Buck.

Jun 6, 2022 at 12:04 PM
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by 49ersRing:

5th best team in pass coverage over the last 3 years. Thanks John Lynch!

I'd like to see how they grade this. Seems extremely subjective.

But how are their air yards?
Jun 6, 2022 at 12:19 PM
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by 49ersRing:

5th best team in pass coverage over the last 3 years. Thanks John Lynch!

I'd like to see how they grade this. Seems extremely subjective.

Well there is going to be some subjectivity involved because ultimately their grading does involve human beings watching each player in coverage on each play and assigning a grade from -2 to 2 with 0 being neutral based on an internally shared criteria. It will always be imperfect because they don't know everything about what each player was asked to do and no one is going to be perfectly consistent when assigning grades. However, if looking at the coverage grade for the entire unit, that specific knowledge becomes less important and over the course of 100s of passing plays, you will get a somewhat accurate idea for how a passing defense performed especially when you can compare it to other more objective stats like EPA, Yards, Pts, etc. to see how well it correlates.
[ Edited by 49ersRing on Jun 6, 2022 at 12:20 PM ]
Jun 6, 2022 at 12:37 PM
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by 49ersRing:

5th best team in pass coverage over the last 3 years. Thanks John Lynch!

I'd like to see how they grade this. Seems extremely subjective.

That's the problem with almost all of this football analytics stuff. A lot of it really does seem subjective which ceases to make it analytical. I remain unconvinced that the sport lends itself to this kind of breakdown in the same way that baseball seems to.
Jun 6, 2022 at 12:53 PM
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,297
Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by 49ersRing:

5th best team in pass coverage over the last 3 years. Thanks John Lynch!

I'd like to see how they grade this. Seems extremely subjective.

Well there is going to be some subjectivity involved because ultimately their grading does involve human beings watching each player in coverage on each play and assigning a grade from -2 to 2 with 0 being neutral based on an internally shared criteria. It will always be imperfect because they don't know everything about what each player was asked to do and no one is going to be perfectly consistent when assigning grades. However, if looking at the coverage grade for the entire unit, that specific knowledge becomes less important and over the course of 100s of passing plays, you will get a somewhat accurate idea for how a passing defense performed especially when you can compare it to other more objective stats like EPA, Yards, Pts, etc. to see how well it correlates.

I'm assuming they omit the play from the defensive line. For example, if Bosa destroys the OT and applies immediate pressure, the coverage grade is neutral, or undefined, because the pass play didn't have a chance to develop in order to gauge how the defensive coverage responds. Likewise, if the QB has all day to look downfield, the coverage should only be on the hook to cover for 3 seconds (or whatever) depending on the timing of the pass play (3/5/7 step play).
Anyway, zone coverage will generally do better in terms of a, "perfectly covered play", and this chart seems to show that since BAL/NE are in the lower tier for that chart - two teams that play more man when compared to other teams. A perfectly covered play, when playing man coverage, means all five guys did a perfect job, not easy.
Jun 6, 2022 at 1:02 PM
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by 49ersRing:

5th best team in pass coverage over the last 3 years. Thanks John Lynch!

I'd like to see how they grade this. Seems extremely subjective.

Well there is going to be some subjectivity involved because ultimately their grading does involve human beings watching each player in coverage on each play and assigning a grade from -2 to 2 with 0 being neutral based on an internally shared criteria. It will always be imperfect because they don't know everything about what each player was asked to do and no one is going to be perfectly consistent when assigning grades. However, if looking at the coverage grade for the entire unit, that specific knowledge becomes less important and over the course of 100s of passing plays, you will get a somewhat accurate idea for how a passing defense performed especially when you can compare it to other more objective stats like EPA, Yards, Pts, etc. to see how well it correlates.

I'm assuming they omit the play from the defensive line. For example, if Bosa destroys the OT and applies immediate pressure, the coverage grade is neutral, or undefined, because the pass play didn't have a chance to develop in order to gauge how the defensive coverage responds. Likewise, if the QB has all day to look downfield, the coverage should only be on the hook to cover for 3 seconds (or whatever) depending on the timing of the pass play (3/5/7 step play).
Anyway, zone coverage will generally do better in terms of a, "perfectly covered play", and this chart seems to show that since BAL/NE are in the lower tier for that chart - two teams that play more man when compared to other teams. A perfectly covered play, when playing man coverage, means all five guys did a perfect job, not easy.

That's definitely a complicating factor. Players do tend to grade lower in man coverage than zone in PFFs system. I'd be curious to see this chart broken out for man vs. zone and plays where there was pressure vs. no pressure.
Jun 6, 2022 at 1:33 PM
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,297
Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by 49ersRing:

5th best team in pass coverage over the last 3 years. Thanks John Lynch!

I'd like to see how they grade this. Seems extremely subjective.

Well there is going to be some subjectivity involved because ultimately their grading does involve human beings watching each player in coverage on each play and assigning a grade from -2 to 2 with 0 being neutral based on an internally shared criteria. It will always be imperfect because they don't know everything about what each player was asked to do and no one is going to be perfectly consistent when assigning grades. However, if looking at the coverage grade for the entire unit, that specific knowledge becomes less important and over the course of 100s of passing plays, you will get a somewhat accurate idea for how a passing defense performed especially when you can compare it to other more objective stats like EPA, Yards, Pts, etc. to see how well it correlates.

I'm assuming they omit the play from the defensive line. For example, if Bosa destroys the OT and applies immediate pressure, the coverage grade is neutral, or undefined, because the pass play didn't have a chance to develop in order to gauge how the defensive coverage responds. Likewise, if the QB has all day to look downfield, the coverage should only be on the hook to cover for 3 seconds (or whatever) depending on the timing of the pass play (3/5/7 step play).
Anyway, zone coverage will generally do better in terms of a, "perfectly covered play", and this chart seems to show that since BAL/NE are in the lower tier for that chart - two teams that play more man when compared to other teams. A perfectly covered play, when playing man coverage, means all five guys did a perfect job, not easy.

That's definitely a complicating factor. Players do tend to grade lower in man coverage than zone in PFFs system. I'd be curious to see this chart broken out for man vs. zone and plays where there was pressure vs. no pressure.

Impressive of the 49ers to be very consistent (the line has a short length across three seasons).
Jun 6, 2022 at 4:50 PM
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 33,371
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by 49ersRing:

5th best team in pass coverage over the last 3 years. Thanks John Lynch!

I'd like to see how they grade this. Seems extremely subjective.

But how are their air yards?

12 yard average with Deebo as QB.
Jun 16, 2022 at 3:58 AM
I heard an intriguing point made about the Rams team building strategy. While they give up first round picks for higher talented veterans in trades, they also don't have to pay for that first round talent. For instance, Bosa will cost us $10.8M and $17.8M in the 5th year and Kinlaw, $5M. As long as those veterans stay healthy and you draft well from the 2nd round on, you should be able to be restock annually and still end up with your veterans for the same amount of time as the first round rookie (4-5 years). This is how they afford to do this annually and lose players (2-5 players) at the same rate as everybody else.

PS: I'm not advocating for this; just thought it was an interesting team building philosophy.
[ Edited by NCommand on Jun 16, 2022 at 6:34 AM ]
Jun 16, 2022 at 6:49 AM
Originally posted by NCommand:
But how are their air yards?

but how is the TTT?
[ Edited by NYniner85 on Jun 16, 2022 at 6:50 AM ]
Jun 16, 2022 at 6:54 AM
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
But how are their air yards?

but how is the TTT?

Haha.
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