2016 Defense

Originally posted by Joecool:
This is why I don't agree with a blitz-heavy scheme or I don't mind blitzing LB's but over scheming and getting caught blitzing DB's or blitzes that put the back end on an island just seems counter productive to me.

If the defense has tons of speed and power, let that speed and power play straight up. Blitzing is mainly for teams that have a weakness somewhere in the front 7. We don't necessarily have that. Top 5 QB's always pick apart the blitz. They are like a RB that loves to juke, they love it when a defender flies at them only to put a quick move and create an even greater hole to run through.

Agreed and therein lies all of our concerns. I know someone provided a blitz % for Mangini and the number of blitzers you could expect for each % breakdown. I wonder if someone has an idea what O'Neil would look like? What we can expect.

And like you said, it's not so much about the blitzing/attacking itself but when, how many you use and who you do it against.

If I was O'Neil I'd play as straight up as possible. Then, if we aren't getting home with our front 7, then start dialing it up.

Most likely Base Defense
LDE- Armstead
NT- I.Williams
RDE- Q.Dial
ROLB- A. Brooks
ILB-G.Hodges
ILB- N.Bowman
LOLB- A.Lynch
RCB- J.Ward
LCB- T.Brock
FS- Reid
SS- Bethea

Yep, thats my predicted lineup too, though i have a feeling were in a 3-3-5 just as often if not more, with Tartt coming in for Hodges as nickle safety in the box

Originally posted by JustinNiner:
Most likely Base Defense
LDE- Armstead
NT- I.Williams
RDE- Q.Dial
ROLB- A. Brooks
ILB-G.Hodges
ILB- N.Bowman
LOLB- A.Lynch
RCB- J.Ward
LCB- T.Brock
FS- Reid
SS- Bethea

Yeah, that's probably the veteran 'starting' lineup.

Originally posted by cools:
Yep, thats my predicted lineup too, though i have a feeling were in a 3-3-5 just as often if not more, with Tartt coming in for Hodges as nickle safety in the box

yeah i can see that too. Chances are we will be in other sets more often than the base defense

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Joecool:
This is why I don't agree with a blitz-heavy scheme or I don't mind blitzing LB's but over scheming and getting caught blitzing DB's or blitzes that put the back end on an island just seems counter productive to me.

If the defense has tons of speed and power, let that speed and power play straight up. Blitzing is mainly for teams that have a weakness somewhere in the front 7. We don't necessarily have that. Top 5 QB's always pick apart the blitz. They are like a RB that loves to juke, they love it when a defender flies at them only to put a quick move and create an even greater hole to run through.

Agreed and therein lies all of our concerns. I know someone provided a blitz % for Mangini and the number of blitzers you could expect for each % breakdown. I wonder if someone has an idea what O'Neil would look like? What we can expect.

And like you said, it's not so much about the blitzing/attacking itself but when, how many you use and who you do it against.

If I was O'Neil I'd play as straight up as possible. Then, if we aren't getting home with our front 7, then start dialing it up.

Exactly!!! Only blitz if your front 7 are already creating havoc. Then you truly have a disguised blitz. If your front 7 isn't getting their, then the blitz really isn't fooling anybody because the opponent already knows you must blitz to get the QB. And if your front 7 isn't getting there, I think the best option is to play safe, fill the passing lanes, and hope the offense makes a mistake.

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

Originally posted by cools:
Yep, thats my predicted lineup too, though i have a feeling were in a 3-3-5 just as often if not more, with Tartt coming in for Hodges as nickle safety in the box

yeah i can see that too. Chances are we will be in other sets more often than the base defense

Truth...lots of players will get anywhere from 10%-75% of the snaps depending on assignments and injuries.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Exactly!!! Only blitz if your front 7 are already creating havoc. Then you truly have a disguised blitz. If your front 7 isn't getting their, then the blitz really isn't fooling anybody because the opponent already knows you must blitz to get the QB. And if your front 7 isn't getting there, I think the best option is to play safe, fill the passing lanes, and hope the offense makes a mistake.

What was interesting about Buckner's original comments was that he said O'Neil was essentially just going to line them up and kick whoever's ass was in front of them (playing straight up). Big people beating up little people-mentality. So I'm wondering if he's going to look a bit vanilla for some positions and more exotic and flexible for others.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Joecool:

This is why I don't agree with a blitz-heavy scheme or I don't mind blitzing LB's but over scheming and getting caught blitzing DB's or blitzes that put the back end on an island just seems counter productive to me.

If the defense has tons of speed and power, let that speed and power play straight up. Blitzing is mainly for teams that have a weakness somewhere in the front 7. We don't necessarily have that. Top 5 QB's always pick apart the blitz. They are like a RB that loves to juke, they love it when a defender flies at them only to put a quick move and create an even greater hole to run through.

Agreed and therein lies all of our concerns. I know someone provided a blitz % for Mangini and the number of blitzers you could expect for each % breakdown. I wonder if someone has an idea what O'Neil would look like? What we can expect.

And like you said, it's not so much about the blitzing/attacking itself but when, how many you use and who you do it against.

If I was O'Neil I'd play as straight up as possible. Then, if we aren't getting home with our front 7, then start dialing it up.

Exactly!!! Only blitz if your front 7 are already creating havoc. Then you truly have a disguised blitz. If your front 7 isn't getting their, then the blitz really isn't fooling anybody because the opponent already knows you must blitz to get the QB. And if your front 7 isn't getting there, I think the best option is to play safe, fill the passing lanes, and hope the offense makes a mistake.

I just want our front to be so good that we don't even have to blitz. That allows you the ability to disguise so much better.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I just want our front to be so good that we don't even have to blitz. That allows you the ability to disguise so much better.

Amen to that! Just give me a dominant OL and DL again and then we'll find out what we have around them.

Yes Joe,but those guys are few and far between. Count on Brady doing it all the time. Brees some times. Peyton yrs ago. But generally, you aren't playing world's best QBs every game. Russ Wilson does it but only by running around for half an hour behind the LOS. So sure there are some QBs /OCs like that. Generally, however you are talking about the other 28 or 29 QBs out there, and there, yeah, blitzing is very helpful. The caveat is when playing Brady, blitzing doesn't usually work.
Getting to the playoffs , however, blitzing should be very helpful....assuming they bring real heat and out guys can cover.. Carson Palmer could be in that group sometime, but not as a steady diet. So except for the top echelon teams, blitzing should help us immensely.

Also , in a game featuring Peyton Manning, it was the Denver D that won the SB, not the O. And yes they blitzed.

Originally posted by NCommand:
What was interesting about Buckner's original comments was that he said O'Neil was essentially just going to line them up and kick whoever's ass was in front of them (playing straight up). Big people beating up little people-mentality. So I'm wondering if he's going to look a bit vanilla for some positions and more exotic and flexible for others.

With two young DEs it might be wise to limit stunts and other complications. But as they gain experience I believe Buckner and Armstead are both smart enough to really wreak havoc by moving around. Armstead has said that it looks like he may be playing everywhere. Sounds good to me.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
What was interesting about Buckner's original comments was that he said O'Neil was essentially just going to line them up and kick whoever's ass was in front of them (playing straight up). Big people beating up little people-mentality. So I'm wondering if he's going to look a bit vanilla for some positions and more exotic and flexible for others.

With two young DEs it might be wise to limit stunts and other complications. But as they gain experience I believe Buckner and Armstead are both smart enough to really wreak havoc by moving around. Armstead has said that it looks like he may be playing everywhere. Sounds good to me.

Oh well that's a good point. I do think O'Neil plans on moving them around a bit and play straight up but like you said, not too much exotic up front (at first).

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

With two young DEs it might be wise to limit stunts and other complications. But as they gain experience I believe Buckner and Armstead are both smart enough to really wreak havoc by moving around. Armstead has said that it looks like he may be playing everywhere. Sounds good to me.

And remember, Dtg, they have experience playing together already. So I am pretty certain the already know a lot about one another's moves, etc.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
With two young DEs it might be wise to limit stunts and other complications. But as they gain experience I believe Buckner and Armstead are both smart enough to really wreak havoc by moving around. Armstead has said that it looks like he may be playing everywhere. Sounds good to me.

And remember, Dtg, they have experience playing together already. So I am pretty certain the already know a lot about one another's moves, etc.

True, but I was thinking of Justin sweeping the OG and OT out of the way for Aldon to stunt. That takes time to develop and I'm not sure either young DL could equal Justin this soon. Usually, stunts are done with the guys next to you rather than on opposite ends. But maybe O'Neil will have them playiing next to each other at times? I'm really looking forward to seeing these guys on the field!