Week 13 2015: Thoughts after rewatching the game... | Page 4

Marvin49 · 2015-12-07T10:43:43-08:00

1) Gabbert: Starting to think that all those people who laughed at the 49ers for trading a 6 to Jacksonville for Gabbert aren't laughing anymore. I mean seriously...just wondering...if the 49ers put him on the block right now (assuming the trade window was still open), what could they expect to get in return? Another solid but unspectacular game...and to be honest that's just fine. I'm not looking for Gabbert to be great. I'm looking for him to be a serviceable backup in the future. Is he Steve Deberg? A placeholder before the new guy? Is he Jim Plunkett? The bust who reclaims his career and goes on to be a Super Bowl Champion? Is he neither? Right now...I have no clue. I won't pretend otherwise. I keep thinking THIS is the week he reverts back to form...but then it doesn't happen. In the meantime, it's interesting enough to keep an eye on and make the final four games of the season easier to watch. 2) Torrey: This isn't so much of a criticism as an observation. Torrey does the job he was signed to do and he does it well (stretch the field), but that's really all he does. LOL. It's kinda painful to watch him take a short pass and try to do something with it. As I said tho...that's OK. He isn't there to take short passes the distance. He's there to stretch the field, create space for other players, and occasionally make teams pay for not respecting his deep speed. He's currently averaging 23 yards per reception. I'll take that...but MAN he really has no RAC game. 3) Droughn: Call him the Gabbert of the RB position. Another game, another solid but unspectacular performance which is just fine because I'm looking at him as a backup long term anyway. Runs hard, catches the ball...He'll have a shot at the 53 next year. 4) Ward/Bowman: That was awesome. Both Bowmans callout of the screen before it happened and the blitz that forced the audible, AND the way Ward hardly even backpedalled before jumping that route. You almost never see a screen like that picked off. Great play by both players. 5) Armstead: Didn't have a perfect game, but MAN that guy has some power. I saw a couple occasions where he just blew up the guy in front of him and while he didn't get the tackle, he was a big part of why the play was stopped. There are some times when he got pushed past the play but its hard to say anything when there were also a number of times that the Bears ran the ball against TWO down linemen. Armstead isn't perfect, but he's in the trenches learning on the fly and he's playing well. I think we'll see him next year and be happy he got this playing time. 6) McDonald: Sigh. I'm starting to like what I see from him...but dude...Can you please just stay healthy? Guy just can't stay on the field. Celek is the same way. I like a possible future of Celek and McDonald, but that'll never happen if they are constantly injured. How many years are we going to have to go with a depleted TE group late in the season? 7) Hodges: Not bad. Not bad at all. He ain't Pat, but he might be a better option than Wilhoite. Seems quicker and I know he's better in coverage. 8) Tartt: I don't care what people tell me (and many have said I'm off base), but that was NOT an illegal tackle...or at least it shouldn't be. Cutler was still on his feet. He didn't hit him in the head. He didn't hit him with his helmet. He wrapped him up and took him to the ground. Are we really at the point that bringing a guy down hard is a penalty? Refs didn't call it and IMO shouldn't have. What...is he supposed to gently place him on pillows? 9) Kap: So I see just before the game that Kap has met with management and that they are both open to a return next year. Yeah. Right. I'm sorry...I don't buy it. To me, it's one of three things. It could be that they are simply trying to create the illusion that they have no intent to release him to prevent teams form simply waiting till he's a free agent to make a play. It could be that they realize it's possible he won't pass his physical before April 1st and if they'll have to pay him anyway next year they might as well give him a shot to get his job back. Finally, it could be that they are interested in bringing him back, but not at the number he's scheduled to make and if that number goes down it might also make him easier to trade...although I don't know why he'd do that when he could just leave the contract as is and control where he goes. Maybe they don't know if they can get another guy in the draft and are hedging their bets. Who knows, but my guess is that Kap has played his final down and all we are hearing now is damage control in one form or another. 10) Draft position: One of the worst feelings while watching your favorite team play a game. Teams makes a great play at the end and you want to be happy but simultaneously realize that one play could cost you a QB to take you into the next decade. With that win and Cleveland next on the schedule, the 49ers may have just lost any chance at Lynch or Goff. Maybe it all works out in the end. Maybe they don't need one of those guys. Maybe those guys end up sucking anyway. Maybe they fall to the Niners anyway. Who knows what's gonna happen... ...but I HATE that feeling of wanting to be happy with the result but understanding what it might mean in the grand scheme.

Dec 7, 2015 at 1:42 PM

#46

English
Moderator
Posts: 41,457

Marvin

In tray full. Please make some room.

Dec 7, 2015 at 1:48 PM

#47

pasodoc9er
Veteran
Posts: 21,040

Well done, Marvin, and liked your discussion of scenarios with kap and F.O. All 3 are possibles, but I suspect they are doing this for show....and thereby, dough. Different from golf where you drive for show and putt for dough. Time will tell, but it sure looks like gab can be that bridge qb to get us thru 2016 and then allow us a high pick franchise QB in 2017. If so that would be extremely helpful, thus allowing us to package all 13 picks into: all 5s, 6s and 7s into 3s and 4s. Then package them into an extra 2 or possibly another rd 1, say with the help of throwing in Kap. And giving him good PR right now is the proper thing to do , or make it sound like he is a contender for the qb slot in 2016. Whatever, I would dearly love to have but 4 picks, 2 rd 1s and 1 rd 2s....then get BPA, 2 OLs, 1 passrush OLB, and 1 DT/DE/NT. That would go one helluva way towards fixing what is broken. Then in FA get Mack/Pouncey, one of the top flite 6(SIX, yeah) CBs coming out in FA, pick up a starting RB (or is draughn the one?) , plus some more DL help, maybe ILB help. Lot depends on health. Oh, yeah, WRs, but keep torrey. Not sold on ellington or patton. That would allow us in one yr to fix most of what is missing, not do it in 3 yrs. Then assuming blaine can bridge us QB wise into 2017, burn our high picks on a franchise qB then....UNLESS....it turns out that happens to be blaine...it could happen, but he's only played 3 games, and with another 4, that will still be hard to know if he can bridge or not. Sure hope so, because that could save us a yr in rebuild for sure, and 2 yrs maybe. A lot depends on how well blaine does here on out.

That also assumes a big IF at getting just 4 picks(does trent even have the DNA to do that?) , 2 rd ones and 2 rd twos. Actually we are just getting an extra rd 1 and extra rd 2. One would think we could do that if kap were also part of the deal. So making him look usable now is a very good move.

The only thing lacking then would be a HC and his assistants of choice to oversee the rebuild that is coming. JT could do it but to contend we need that HC who is by nature an imaginative successful OC. I would like to see an OC/HC hired initially. Anyway this is another big IF, but one I think we need to become great again. Keeping JT on is fine, but then we are mediocrity personified and the idea is to be the best. Might as well get the best candidate for HC out there...and may require considering the Urban Meyer's etc . Lot of talented OCs out there, but we need one with management experience also, as he needs to be HC too.

Oh, well....one man's opinion.

Dec 7, 2015 at 1:57 PM

#48

lamontb
Veteran
Posts: 33,579

Originally posted by PowderdToastMn:

Originally posted by lamontb:
We need pass rushers badly on this defense. All we got is Lynch and he's up and down. Harold has flashed nothing, Lemonier just isn't good, and Brooks is done unless he's getting a penalty. Heavy focus on pass rushers this off season is needed. And htey need more than 1 guy.

Agreed. With all the extra cash, I would love to see them at least make attempts at Von Miller or Irvin. Miller would have a bigger impact, but stealing Irvin from Seattle is always a bonus

Yea Von Miller isn't leaving Denver. And how is Irvin doing this year? Seems like Frank Clark is being used more and has been more productive than Irvin this year. Might have to find some lower tiered guys that can at least get 8-10 sacks. Right now this team won't even have a guy with double digit sacks. That's ridiculous.

Dec 7, 2015 at 2:09 PM

#49

Irish40Niner
Veteran
Posts: 2,570

Originally posted by Joecool:
Agree with all except Kap. Think by watching Gabbert, Kap is seeing how to play QB in our offense. Seriously, we should invest in developing him properly. I do think he was taken advantage of and neglected by our previous coaches.

I totally agree.

Dec 7, 2015 at 2:11 PM

#50

audick
Veteran
Posts: 163

You're out of your mind if you think the front office has any intention of bringing in a superior coach. This is a chicken s**t, insular front office. They will never hire anyone outside the bubble.

Dec 7, 2015 at 2:27 PM

#51

PineNut
Veteran
Posts: 169

Gabbert had been having a lot of success rolling to his right and running or passing from the roll out.

I was wondering when other teams would start dealing with it, and I saw Chicago leave back the left defensive end to follow (or spy) Gabbert. It didn't always work because Gabbert was a lot quicker, but I think that did affect Gabbert's numbers the first 3.5 quarters and he'll be seeing more of it.

Dec 7, 2015 at 2:41 PM

#52

BuZzB05
Veteran
Posts: 3,615

Hey. I want to know the questions for you.

Tell me. If Kap will be stay a 49ers for next year or trade to kap for Browns or Jets for 1st round? If you want kap for 49ers in next year? Then why? Can you explain because do you want kap play for us in next year?

Dec 7, 2015 at 2:58 PM

#53

BadgerHawk
Veteran
Posts: 2,547

Here a few quick thoughts about what I saw while watching and these are just quick hitters as I was game watching and not game film reading.

1. Gabbert had his moments where he made some really nice plays but he also had some throws that were really Kap-esque. I think we forget that Kap also had games where he looked like a world beater and we were signing his praises. Do think Gabbert is a better passer? HELL YES. Do I think Gabbert has a higher ceiling? No, but it may be close. What I do see is a player who seems like he's better prepared. We always wondered what Colin was looking at pre-snap and why he was taking so long to read things and I think that report of him studying considerably less than Blaine gives us the answers why. Some of the marginal QB's in the league that manage to look really good on Sundays quite frequently understand that they have to study game film in order to make themselves a little better. Russ Wilson is a great example of this. Apparently Kap thinks he can get by just on God-given ability. We all know that isn't true at this point.

2. I'm not lured into believing that this coaching staff is good in any respect. An offense that lacks creativity, a defense that looks poorly coached and an special teams that downright should have the coordinator fired in the post game locker room all convinces me that these castoffs and neverbeens shouldn't be coaching at the pro level.

3. I've said this before and said it often. There is still a lot of good talent there. Good, young talent. There is also dead weight. I think we need to make a push to keep Boone. After the way Staley played I have great concerns. He has had games like that in the past, but that dude was just lost this weekend. Worse that Pears who I have always considered dead weight. I'm also hoping Kilgore gets his first start this coming week. I think we have much less dead weight on defense but I think their is a lot of good, raw talent there. I see a lot of fundamental mistakes there that require coaching. I'm not sure how tackling becomes worse under a defensive-minded head coach but it has. We don't hit or tackle well anymore. There was play or two yesterday where it looked like 4-5 players were "dry humping" the Chicago back instead of trying to bring the guy down.

4. I mentioned it earlier but special teams was was bad and one reason was players taking plays off. One example I saw was Dontae Johnson jogging down on coverage and then having to turn and run after the returner who flew past him. To me this is just an example of a team where players are taking it easy by taking plays off. I'm seeing it more under this staff than I saw under the last. The passion just isn't there. Blame what or who you will but its there. If I'm the Johnson's or Staley's I'm embarassed after a game or a play like that even if I won. Getting owned on national television should not sit well with a professional player no matter what he is payed or what the teams record is.

I was happy for the win, disgusted by some of the sloppy effort on plays that should have been great but weren't and then a little disheartened when I realized that that win will probably cost is more in the long run with a lesser draft position. I don't expect the players to tank but we still need help at multiple positions. However, I'm starting to feel that QB may not be one of them.

Dec 7, 2015 at 3:31 PM

#54

IHATELOWELLCOHN
Veteran
Posts: 1,433

Keep Mangini, Rathman and Forester. Make Tomsula the DL and Assistant HC and get rid of everyone else. This will never happen but it should.

Dec 7, 2015 at 3:31 PM

#55

BleedsRedNGold
Veteran
Posts: 4,843

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
I agree Armstead shows power, but does the dude have any clue where the ball is? All he seems concerned with is blowing up the guy in front of him.

Maybe that was his job?

Dec 7, 2015 at 3:47 PM

#56

Marvin49
Hall of Fame
Posts: 16,506

Originally posted by English:
Marvin

In tray full. Please make some room.

oops. My bad. Never been an issue before. :D

Dec 7, 2015 at 3:50 PM

#57

Afrikan
Veteran
Posts: 23,761

Originally posted by IHATELOWELLCOHN:
Keep Mangini, Rathman and Forester. Make Tomsula the DL and Assistant HC and get rid of everyone else. This will never happen but it should.

why keep around the rat?

why make him an assistant HC? What competent good HC would want to come here with that stipulation?

sad part about your whole scenario is that I can see Tomsula ACTUALLY taking that role with the same team that fired him as HC.

where as any self-respecting coach would try to prove himself else where.

Dec 7, 2015 at 3:58 PM

#58

JDMathews49ers
Veteran
Posts: 1,853

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by English:
Marvin

In tray full. Please make some room.

oops. My bad. Never been an issue before. :D

Like the breakdown as always Marvin. My take is the same on Gabbert, though I'm still very skeptical. My biggest hope is that he could be that bridge. If he's better, than its an added bonus.

I think we agree that it's always great to see us win, but I also want that high draft pick. We differ in who we'll take, it's Tunsil for me by the way, but I'm hoping we finish no lower than 7th. I feel that still puts us in place to trade up without giving up the farm. We're currently in 9th with Dallas set to play. I'm a Cowboys fan tonight by the way

. I like Goff and Lynch both, Lynch a little more, but I don't want either of them that early. I think they both has some learning. I'll rather we focus on the trenches if Blaine is serviceable and kick the tires on Carson Wentz or Jacoby Brissett.

I agree with the Kap issue. I couldn't see why Kap would agree to a pay cut to play here. Would love to see if he could ever breakout, but I believe the marriage is pretty much over.

I hate to root against my Niners, but I'll much rather have that higher draft pick and a FO to right it's wrong with this CS.

Dec 7, 2015 at 4:51 PM

#59

tohara3
Veteran
Posts: 31,182

Great post Marvin49. This was a very rough game to watch from both teams.

Dec 7, 2015 at 7:33 PM

#60

pasodoc9er
Veteran
Posts: 21,040

Have to agree with Afrikan...one goes they all go. Besides a new HC deserves his own assistants. But one absolute must: HC must be an OC, and i would like to see the HC serve as both for a couple yrs. Also whoever it eventually is, he has to be the best and not an afterthought. He should be a pick that everyone wants....which implies a guy who has proven himself. Or we can stick with JT and even if we get the best personnel, we will never have the best coach....and that is a bit depressing. we still have 4 games to go and hopefully F.O. realizes we aren't going to be any better than our HC. If they just concentrate on that, we will be alright.