Talent-wise we're not far from competing

Spent the evening listening to podcasts on KNBR. Some great interviews on KNBR recently, on podcast if you missed them. The general concensus seems to be that the ownership has created a bad business model that can't be sustained. Almost all the football people interviewed mentioned having an older, knowledgable football guy in charge of the franchise...not third or fourth down the chain of command. They didn't knock Paraag and even complimented Jed for wanting to win, but kept coming back to decisions made for non-football reasons (my interpretation).

I can't stand to listen to NFLN analyze the team because they run with whatever the popular agenda is and seldom add anything worthwhile, but the Matts, former 9ers, former coaches...and even Carmen Policy have had some very good thoughts. (Even Ann Killian had some interesting comments--how'd that happen? LOL!).

Policy was asked if he would be interested in getting involved and he said no, his time had passed and trying to recreate camlot would not work. But he also said that if he was in charge he would be seeking advice from people like George Seifert, former players, GMs around the league...anyone who might add something new to the thought process. He believes Jed, and the Yorks, have bunker mentality at this point and only listen to reinforcing ideas from sycophants...my interpretation again.

The team needs a quarterback, tackle, receiver, tight end, guard, pass rusher, corners you name it. Basically if it typically requires a high pick we need it.

Our defense is ok. Hard not to give up a lot of points when the offense is 3 and out punt 3 and out punt 3 and out punt 3 and out punt 3 and out punt 3 and out punt.

If we improve the line and QB we could get up to average.

"The 49ers totaled 40 selections in the 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015 drafts combined. Only eight of them could be considered good picks, and that's stretching it to include cornerback Dontae Johnson and receiver Bruce Ellington.

Only two of those picks could be considered great: Carlos Hyde, a second-rounder who looks like a franchise back, and Aaron Lynch, a fifth-rounder who is their best pass rusher. At one point, Eric Reid looked like a great pick, though his play has declined, so three at the most.

To be fair, the jury is still out on several, including rookies Arik Armstead, Jaquiski Tartt and Blake Bell. Still, that's a low percentage of picks on which Baalke for sure nailed the selection.

Contrast that with the number of definite misses, and it's clearly time to evaluate the evaluator. It's too early to draw conclusions on the 2015 draft class, but 10 of Baalke's 20 picks taken in the fifth round or higher from 2012-14 were bad. That's 10 players who either never produced, underwhelmed or paled in comparison with whom the 49ers could have gotten.

Receivers A.J. Jenkins and Quinton Patton. Running backs Marcus Lattimore and LaMichael James. Defensive back Jimmie Ward and center Marcus Martin. Tight end Vance McDonald and defensive tackle Tank Carradine. Offensive lineman Joe Looney and linebacker Corey Lemonier.

That number grows if offensive lineman Brandon Thomas, punter Bradley Pinion and linebacker Eli Harold don't turn things around.

Missing on that many picks is a franchise killer. Baalke's draft rut left the 49ers unprepared to transition. It has left the cupboard bare for a coaching staff that doesn't have experience making dinner from scraps.

If only Baalke had been as successful as Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie. Imagine that."

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

He believes Jed, and the Yorks, have bunker mentality at this point and only listen to reinforcing ideas from sycophants...my interpretation again.

He is right. They deliberately isolate themselves and it has turned into one giant echo chamber of incompetence. They should be seeking help from as many people outside the organization as possible. They need someone to tell them bluntly that they are f**king up and how to stop f**king up because quite frankly I dont believe they know any better.

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:

as Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie.

Just curious, didnt Reggie McKenzie use an early 1st rounder on a CB with serious health issues that has been an absolute bust thus far?

Lol yea ok. Optimists back on that Jim Jones juice again

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Just curious, didnt Reggie McKenzie use an early 1st rounder on a CB with serious health issues that has been an absolute bust thus far?

Are you trying to say that you would rather have Baalke than McKenzie making draft picks? Bwahahaha

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Niner fans overrate their players in good times and underrate then in bad times.

It's become fashionable to trash our own players and GM after fighting tooth and nail defending them to Seahawk fans.

Maybe not just exclusive to Niner fans but still.

We need a legit coaching staff, one or two good drafts and a QB.

This can happen quickly or it can take time. We'll have to see.

With Baalke drafting it won't happen at all.

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:
"The 49ers totaled 40 selections in the 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015 drafts combined. Only eight of them could be considered good picks, and that's stretching it to include cornerback Dontae Johnson and receiver Bruce Ellington.

Only two of those picks could be considered great: Carlos Hyde, a second-rounder who looks like a franchise back, and Aaron Lynch, a fifth-rounder who is their best pass rusher. At one point, Eric Reid looked like a great pick, though his play has declined, so three at the most.

To be fair, the jury is still out on several, including rookies Arik Armstead, Jaquiski Tartt and Blake Bell. Still, that's a low percentage of picks on which Baalke for sure nailed the selection.

Contrast that with the number of definite misses, and it's clearly time to evaluate the evaluator. It's too early to draw conclusions on the 2015 draft class, but 10 of Baalke's 20 picks taken in the fifth round or higher from 2012-14 were bad. That's 10 players who either never produced, underwhelmed or paled in comparison with whom the 49ers could have gotten.

Receivers A.J. Jenkins and Quinton Patton. Running backs Marcus Lattimore and LaMichael James. Defensive back Jimmie Ward and center Marcus Martin. Tight end Vance McDonald and defensive tackle Tank Carradine. Offensive lineman Joe Looney and linebacker Corey Lemonier.

That number grows if offensive lineman Brandon Thomas, punter Bradley Pinion and linebacker Eli Harold don't turn things around.

Missing on that many picks is a franchise killer. Baalke's draft rut left the 49ers unprepared to transition. It has left the cupboard bare for a coaching staff that doesn't have experience making dinner from scraps.

If only Baalke had been as successful as Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie. Imagine that."

If you are going to cut and paste an article you need to mention the source.

Originally posted by pdizo916:

Originally posted by niners94:
We have talent but the way it's used is terrible.

THIS

Tank should be a 4-3 edge rusher
What happened to Brandon Thomas at LG?
AA should be starting in lieu of any d line. The d line are not getting the push needed
Tarrt and acker show some good promise
Ward and Reid are solid

But we don't have any offensive talent besides Staley and Boone. (who is misused terribly) We need to rebuild that offense from scratch.

It all starts with coaching.

Will Jed/Trent pick a modern coach who wants an aggressive passing attack or a pound and ground guy??

Then, Major overhaul for the OLine and I mean Major.

If we want to compete then the best proven FA starters for the OLine - IMO, Mack and the best OT we can buy. Move Kilgore to RG

It may be a fantasy but a guy like Joe Thomas for LT, move Staley to RT and let Boone walk. The money we would have paid him would have paid him would go towards the larger amount we'd pay Thomas.

We have to be able to get a LG out of what we have left. Develop Trent Brown to Replace Staley in 2 years.

Thomas - LG - Mack - Kilgore - Staley

If we don't want to compete right away then do it through the draft - which hasn't worked out too well so far.

We have some very good guys but not enough of them.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:
as Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie.

Just curious, didnt Reggie McKenzie use an early 1st rounder on a CB with serious health issues that has been an absolute bust thus far?

Actually DJ Hayden is getting a little better. How's Gabe Jackson OG doing so far drafted a few spots lower then the Pro Bowler Marcus Martin?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Spent the evening listening to podcasts on KNBR. Some great interviews on KNBR recently, on podcast if you missed them. The general concensus seems to be that the ownership has created a bad business model that can't be sustained. Almost all the football people interviewed mentioned having an older, knowledgable football guy in charge of the franchise...not third or fourth down the chain of command. They didn't knock Paraag and even complimented Jed for wanting to win, but kept coming back to decisions made for non-football reasons (my interpretation).

I can't stand to listen to NFLN analyze the team because they run with whatever the popular agenda is and seldom add anything worthwhile, but the Matts, former 9ers, former coaches...and even Carmen Policy have had some very good thoughts. (Even Ann Killian had some interesting comments--how'd that happen? LOL!).

Policy was asked if he would be interested in getting involved and he said no, his time had passed and trying to recreate camlot would not work. But he also said that if he was in charge he would be seeking advice from people like George Seifert, former players, GMs around the league...anyone who might add something new to the thought process. He believes Jed, and the Yorks, have bunker mentality at this point and only listen to reinforcing ideas from sycophants...my interpretation again.

I really like this post dtg. There is a lot of folks around here running around like everything is burning down (and it very well may be ) But I also think there is still reason to have a bit of hope. The team is not devoid of talent, it just isn't being used effectively or efficiently. That comes down to the organization not putting anyone in a position to succeed.

Tomsula is in a spot he has no business being in. That trickles down to the rest of the coaching staff as well. Because Tomsula was put in place, the team wasn't able to attract capable coordinators (though Mangini does seem to at least be adjusting the defense based on what works and what doesn't, so some credit is due there). Geep is in over his head with a shell shocked QB and now a fully depleted RB corps, and an offensive line that may not be college worthy.

The best organizations are run by people who know there is knowledge to be gained and used by folks outside the organization. One or two people cannot do it all. The bunker mentality you mentioned seems an apt description. With that mindset the administration is unable to see what they are doing wrong because they're just patting each other on the back regardless of the outcome.

I do want to reiterate I don't think this team is completely devoid of talent. It just isn't being utilized effectively. I agree with the OP there. The offensive line is the most glaring weak spot and the only spot I think is truly abysmal. Some of these guys, playing at their current level, may not even be starting for a college team. At minimum, with capable coaching, I think the team would be looking at 8-8, and I think they would be competitive in every game they played. As with Singletary, we've seen what happens when you bring in a coach that is in over his head. This is the result.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
If you are going to cut and paste an article you need to mention the source.

Thanks to Niner816 for pointing out Elephant's plagiarism!

Deandrew White HOF