Week 8 2015: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

Originally posted by mayo49:

This team is turrible.

...and the way they've played in divisional games, that's a insult to terrible teams. They are just non competitive. Thus far we are non competitive in 4 of 8, 3 of 4 on the road and every divisonal game. This is almost impossible in a parity league, yet here we are.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by thl408:
All the factors contributing to the anemic offense blend together. But the ones that leap out to me is Kap having tunnel vision, and the piss poor pass/run blocking. Let me know if you disagree with those two weaknesses I mentioned. So what does an OC do to account for these two weaknesses? He calls simple route combinations that are easier to defend.

What is it that you would like to see more of? Please don't say 'slants and screens'.

He is under constant pressure, that is textbook what happens to QBs..especially young ones. I'd like to see Devey and Pears replaced. I'd also see who on the team can play center. Stop running to the right side for one thing and call more blitz beaters. Have a better gameplan. You can't tell me Geep has done a good job and his hands are tired by personnel. He has never shown ability as a good OC...ever.

Address the Oline and guarantee you we'll see better play.

I didn't say Geep has done a good job. Don't twist it around to form an imaginary argument. Please re-read my posts.

You say Geep deserves blame, then say the offense will be better with better OL play. I agree with you. So the problem is the OL isn't it? If that gets addressed, then Geep can call some better plays, and not this simple, easy-to-defend offense we are seeing. If you were to assign weight, what percentage would you assign blame? For me (this is for the entire season) imo:

OL: 40%
Kap: 40%
WR/TE/RB: 10%
Playcalling: 10%

Agreed for the most part, but I think Kap takes a bigger role in that like maybe Kap 50%, OL 30%. If he could make the defense pay for mistakes, hit WRs regularly in stride and learn how to read defenses, this would change the defensive attack, thereby likely lightening up the pressure and helping our run game. I have seen them give him plenty of time (>3 seconds) on several occasions and he runs around like a ding dong, looking, looking, waiting for guys to come wiiiiidddeee open. If not, then he gets sacked. He needs to start throwing it away, or show some experience and throw it at WRs feet instead of taking 10+ yard sacks.

Re-watching? you mean there are people out there who would actually watch this garbage twice?

All the talk about Kap and his horrendous offensive line, makes me wonder if this the main problem. I listened to Gary and Larry on KNBR their guest was Fran Tarkenton, he was asked is the offensive line the problem for Kap. His response was every QB plays with poor OLines during their careers, you learn to adjust, shorter routes, roll outs, etc. His analysis was this adapt and adjust mind set makes the QB better in the long run. Those that can't cut it are out of the league in a hurry.

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
It was absolutely atrocious and unbelievably predictable. I saw a breakdown on reddit of Geep's RZ and general offense philosophy, curious to hear your thoughts:

https://www.reddit.com/r/49ers/comments/3r56ci/kap_now_has_0_passing_tds_in_5_of_8_games/

I saw the Texas route in the redzone and agree that's a playcall when the underneath zone defenders have more room to cover. Kap could have given Miller a better chance to catch and run, but he zipped it a bit high. No guarantee Miller scores, but at least he could have had a full head of steam attacking the goal line. When the most vocal of the posters (v66fender) on that reddit post say this:

"Call a spot concept, drive, levels, texas, smash, spacing, slant flat, SOMETHING that's going to get you a very easy short yardage completion."

I stopped reading. Geep calls all of those as he tried to get Kap to get rid of the ball. 49ers don't see much cover 2 so Levels won't be targeted, but I see it.
Levels:


Slant-Flat. 49ers call this many times a game along with their variations of Slide. If that poster was actually watching the game film, he'd easily spot this.


49ers call Slide, Spot, Shallow Cross, Inverted Smash, Texas, Fade/Out, as the concepts I see show up the most. I have not seen much 4 Verticals, and I don't think I've seen any of Mills, Pin, Double Posts concepts that require good pass blocking. I've seen Pin and Mills in the preseason so I know it's in the playbook.

So I disagree a lot with how that poster said, "SOMETHING that's going to get you a very easy short yardage completion." That's all Geep has been doing and that's what makes the offense easy to defend. The flip side is to call more 5 step concepts and risk the OL pooping the bed.

Thl, Geep is screwed ...no matter what he does. So really hard to evaluate him. Sure kap has no OL, no playcalling helps because he is so limited as a QB (boy that sounds weird), #1 WR , #1 RB both out, Vernon is done, kap has dissembled (" I don't care, bench me or trade me").... now that shows his maturity level, a major league weakness and complaint all along, so what is geep to do? Absolutely impossible to grade him out this yr. No complaints from me, except for that c.s. ding bat set of 3 calls on the goal line....3 straight runs, each losing yardage, ending in safety. Now THAT I would fire him for. Anything else, just no way to gauge the guy. I am afraid, however, that wth zero confidence in his qb, and all the problems above, that geep may just be a loser also....certainly he shorted out back there on the goal line. Anyway, usually you are talking about not being able to judge the QB, because of OL or OC problems...or WR, TE problems. . Here we are talking about the OC...so it is a bit different.

And for the brave souls that DON'T want to see gab play, I think you are being a bit shortsighted. Two reasons.
1) Kap might just benefit from sitting and actually learn something. OTOH, maybe not, in that he seems to have never learned the playbook, forsaking that for weightlifting. IF he knew the playbook backwards and forwards, he would be able to throw before the break, something he obviously can't do. Again, he can't even complete a majority of his 3 yd passes so maybe this is just an idyll thot.
2). GAb. I was not a fan of his coming here, but with 2 yrs reclamation done, he finally didn't look like he did at Jax for 3 yrs, able to get the ball gone quickly in the face of no OL. I would be extremely interested if that coaching up has helped in real time....game time. For some reason he isn't getting called on, when he has demonstrated that he can do well in PS against 2nd and 3rd squad Ds. So let's see what he has. IF nothing, then he needs to go also. There is no way on God's green earth that kap has earned another yr here. He is a FAILED experiment. No point in trying to reclaim him. How harbaw picked him as heir apparent I don't know, but I do know it was a horrible mistake. Ask kap and he would tell you, Please send me elsewhere. He is broken here, and no fixing is going to work. Lost the fan base, lost his teammates , and his immaturity screams, get rid of him. Oddly, he has not lost his HC or owner as of today. Tomorrow, who knows.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Geep Chryst as an offensive coordinator: 1998 - #26. 1999. #28. 2015 - #32. There is a reason he went 16 years between OC jobs. When you hire bad coaches you get bad results.

Not that I entirely disagree...

...but it ain't like he's had the parts in any stop of his NFL career.

True. Right now he's doing everything to adjust to the horrible OL and Kaepernick's shaken confidence but it's not working. At some point, you've got to start getting creative and do what you can with other concepts. "Doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result" ... well. We know what that is. I did see they experimented a little with formations, but things were blown up so fast nothing ever had a chance.

Time for trickery and QB runs. Direct snap to the RB. Use Ellington or Patton out of the backfield like Randall Cobb and Tavon Austin. Run the pistol. Do read option. I mean, we've tried everything else.

Originally posted by SJniner7:
Agreed for the most part, but I think Kap takes a bigger role in that like maybe Kap 50%, OL 30%. If he could make the defense pay for mistakes, hit WRs regularly in stride and learn how to read defenses, this would change the defensive attack, thereby likely lightening up the pressure and helping our run game. I have seen them give him plenty of time (>3 seconds) on several occasions and he runs around like a ding dong, looking, looking, waiting for guys to come wiiiiidddeee open. If not, then he gets sacked. He needs to start throwing it away, or show some experience and throw it at WRs feet instead of taking 10+ yard sacks.

I can't argue your point of putting some more of the onus on Kap. It varies play to play so I placed equal blame on Kap and the OL to keep it simple, but your point is very valid. We've seen plays where Kap has zero time with a Devey/Martin/Pears taking turns looking like a pylon cone. We've seen plays where Kap is staring at the proper read and won't pull the trigger. We've seen plays where Kap targets the correct read and just butchers the throw. It's all just jumbled together in my head so I can't tell what happens more than the other.

i dont even

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

It was absolutely atrocious and unbelievably predictable. I saw a breakdown on reddit of Geep's RZ and general offense philosophy, curious to hear your thoughts:

https://www.reddit.com/r/49ers/comments/3r56ci/kap_now_has_0_passing_tds_in_5_of_8_games/

I saw the Texas route in the redzone and agree that's a playcall when the underneath zone defenders have more room to cover. Kap could have given Miller a better chance to catch and run, but he zipped it a bit high. No guarantee Miller scores, but at least he could have had a full head of steam attacking the goal line. When the most vocal of the posters (v66fender) on that reddit post say this:

"Call a spot concept, drive, levels, texas, smash, spacing, slant flat, SOMETHING that's going to get you a very easy short yardage completion."

I stopped reading. Geep calls all of those as he tried to get Kap to get rid of the ball. 49ers don't see much cover 2 so Levels won't be targeted, but I see it.
Levels:


Slant-Flat. 49ers call this many times a game along with their variations of Slide. If that poster was actually watching the game film, he'd easily spot this.


49ers call Slide, Spot, Shallow Cross, Inverted Smash, Texas, Fade/Out, as the concepts I see show up the most. I have not seen much 4 Verticals, and I don't think I've seen any of Mills, Pin, Double Posts concepts that require good pass blocking. I've seen Pin and Mills in the preseason so I know it's in the playbook.

So I disagree a lot with how that poster said, "SOMETHING that's going to get you a very easy short yardage completion." That's all Geep has been doing and that's what makes the offense easy to defend. The flip side is to call more 5 step concepts and risk the OL pooping the bed.

I'm of the opinion while in goal to go situation sprint rt option needs to be called more than it is. That's a money goal to go play. It give you both a pass and run option and the flat receiver in it has a track record of bust it open. This needs to be wrapped in numerous formations and used.

Nothing on Tomsula? I didn't watch much of the game (got my times mixed up) but he looks lost. I don't see the fire in him like he had when he was dl coach... probably his greatest attribute.

I feel bad for him but he's just not the answer and I was all behind him before we lit the dumpster.

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
People that keep bashing Vernon just don't get it. He's not done by any means. You have a line that can't block and a QB that can't get anyone the ball and people want to talk about how much Vernon sucks. I guarantee if Vernon was on the Packers, Patriots, Saints, etc. he'd be putting up very good numbers. He still has his speed. He's never been one to lower his shoulder. People just see his stats being s**tty the last couple years and now start noticing that he doesn't look for contact and make the conclusion that he sucks now. That's never been his MO in the first place. And you don't need a tight end to play like Adrian Peterson. He needs a QB that has time to actually throw the ball and a QB that can get him the ball.

I guess Torrey Smith must suck then too, because his numbers are pretty bad this year as well. Vernon's not a guy that puts his head down and tries to run someone over and he's never been. He hasn't changed. He just put up 13 tds in 2013. What has changed is how s**tty the line has become and how bad the QB has been playing. It's pretty obvious the reason for his decline in stats.

I disagree, whether he's still pissy over the contract or whatever, short of just refusing to play he is about as disinterested as a football player can be. And while he's never been the most physical runner after the catch, he would mix it up when he had to...but now this guy can't find the turf or sideline fast enough. He's a physical specimen who once upon a time had some passion for the game and had a few really good years, but for the past 2 seasons he's shown none of that, and hopefully this ends the nonsense of him being the best 49er TE ever...an insult to Brent Jones, a guy who left it all out on the field.

Re: Torrey Smith, he doesn't suck and he's probably regretting signing with this team, but his numbers would be a little bit better if he could actually catch a football that hits him in the hands.

Agree to disagree. It's hard to argue over whether a player is passionate about the game or not, but imo Vernon's lack of production has to do with how bad the oline and qb play has been. It was either in the Harbowl or the Superbowl, Patrick Willis was getting on Vernon Davis for not lowering his shoulder into Raven defenders. That was in 2012. So he was 'soft' back then. He then went on to have 13 tds and 850 yards in 2013 even though he still wasn't a player that would explode up the field, get north and south, looking to lower his shoulder into people. He's never been that type of player. I don't see a player that has lost passion for the game. I see a player that was injured throughout 2014 and isn't getting the ball because the play calling, line, and qb play has not been good the last two years. Again, I'd be willing to bet he'd be playing very good for any team with a decent qb and oline play. And we might just see that if he gets traded.

Originally posted by Jcool:
Geep Chryst as an offensive coordinator: 1998 - #26. 1999. #28. 2015 - #32. There is a reason he went 16 years between OC jobs. When you hire bad coaches you get bad results.

yeah but there is a flaw here in 2015,Kap, there were 2 games we should have or could have WON the Rams and the Seahawks. but Kap has played sooooooooooo damn bad plus the Right-Gate thats always open,Damn it Kap you had Patton open for a TD,you have Torrey open for a Long TD and you had Simpson open for a possible LongTD14-21 points You left on the field,Chryst really has not been bad,He`s handcuffed by the Sack-Puppet.

Reid looks like he's afraid to tackle. Half-hearted attempt on one of his missed tackles.

Originally posted by Jcool:
Geep Chryst as an offensive coordinator: 1998 - #26. 1999. #28. 2015 - #32. There is a reason he went 16 years between OC jobs. When you hire bad coaches you get bad results.

yeah but there is a flaw here in 2015,Kap, there were 2 games we should have or could have WON the Rams and the Seahawks. but Kap has played sooooooooooo damn bad plus the Right-Gate thats always open,Damn it Kap you had Patton open for a TD,you have Torrey open for a Long TD and you had Simpson open for a possible LongTD14-21 points You left on the field,Chryst really has not been bad,He`s handcuffed by the Sack-Puppet.

Originally posted by Blindfury:
That's what I was getting at. How do you give a guy like this the benefit of the doubt?

yeah there were,WRS were getting open quite a bit,Sack-Puppet was not seeing them,EVEN when they were jumping up and down in the end zone