Player Personnel: Planning For Next Season

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by Rascal:

You are suggesting to put out the same putrid performance out there and pay him $17 million for doing so?

I, on the other hand believe we have seen all we need to see from Kap, good and bad and that includes when he actually had a great O-line in 2012 an 2013.

Do you think Baalke (if he is still around) will let Jed York see another Thursday Night Football snackdown at Levi's?

I will personally guarantee you, if Kap is still our QB, the 9ers will continue to get raped by the Seahawks.

There is no way Baalke will survive another bad performance from Kap after this season. In fact, I am not even sure he will survive the coming offseason.

I would be totally shocked if we don' cut bait with Kap after this season.

Just too much time has been wasted on Kap and in not drafting a QB for the past 2 years.

I agree Kap has sucked!

It isn't all on him.

1st Our coaching is some of the worst in the NFL.

2nd Our Oline is is vomit inducing.

3rd I've been a Baalke guy and still like some of the things he does. I think he's stuck int Parcell's mentality.

We'll never go to a WCO offens w/Trent at the helm.

I really hope I'm wrong.

Everything you said is Spot on Las VegasWally!

As much as i hated the idea in the past, i have been thinking about going with a coach like josh Mcdaniels. I just want an actual offensive minded coach who will play chess with the defense. Look for weaknesses and put our guys in a scenario to exploit the defense. I want a guy who carrys a dang clipboard and is marking down ideas as he sees the game unfolding. Not someone who just stares at the game just completely confused. It doesnt have to be mcdaniels but just a young mind that is innovative.

Beyond that, we have to add a pass rusher. Its just like the aldon draft. A pass rusher makes the who.e D better. The entire oline needs to get better. Even with depth. And i do think we need to look at moving on from kap. I like him but to rebuild around him with a new coach and system might not be the best way. I would like a new coach to be able to build the offense how they want to. If we force kap on them it kind feels like washington making every coach work with rg3. If a new coach likes kap, great! If a new coach is more of a pocket offense, then let them get who they want.

Guard and Tackle, needed badly.

Linebacking core needs help, Brooks seems to be playing old, Bowman is not, and never will be his old self, Wilhote is a glorified special teamer.

Defensive line seems to be held back by scheme, but certainly could use one more big body for the rotation, if we stick with this defense, we will need a Vince Wilfork, BJ Rajie kind of nose.

Running backs, we should get some, Hyde is a great back, but may not be a Bell Cow 20-30 touches back, we need death for a rotation.

Tight end, we seem set, but a more dynamic pass catcher would be good.

Fullback, lets just use the one we have, a lot more!

Defensive backs, will improve with a pass rush, no way to judge them, they are being asked to hold up for to long, and well, the scheme, is bizarre.

Wide outs, we seem oddly well stocked.

The biggie, Quarterback, yeah, clearly we need to keep looking, Gabbet and Keapernick, are not the future, but they could be servicable, until we find our guy.

All these holes...we are rebuilding for 3-4 years.

Well if I was gm I would try to land another first round pick in the draft and select the two best offensive lineman available.I would also use a pick or send a player and try to land a qb like Mike Glennon of Tampa Bay who has shown potential and would not cost and arm and a leg.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by m_brockalexander:

Great post, OTC. No quarrels on any of your moves. Going to be a rocky rest of the season and offseason.

The more I think about it, the more I feel less hesitation about supporting the move of firing Baalke. He does a great job stockpiling picks, but you've got to do more with the picks you have. I want someone who picks healthy players.. and can scout WR and OL that are impact guys. He picks too often on potential. Again, he does some things good, like picking solid developmental players, but he hired Tomsula as HC. Why do that if you knew this kind of result was probably coming?

Me, too. This team needs to make every pick count now with the myriad of holes on the roster. Baalke did his job to accumulate the picks, now they need someone to convert on those picks. No more injury specials, because Baalke missed more than hit on those picks. The entire football operation needs to be replaced including the coaching staff. Don't know who exactly is out there to make this happen, but it has to be done. My hope is that this process starts right now with some trades and cuts of some of the dead weight on this roster. Guys like Pears and Devey have to go because they aren't going to be part of this team long term.

Interesting and informative conversation. I've already posted long ago we need to find out what we have on the bench, on the team, and who can/can't cut it. Like Sofa just a few posts back, we need to devote the next 9 games to who can play and who can't. The worst thing going into Draft and FA each yr, (and harbaw was horrible about this) was knowing what talent you had on the bench or PS. We still don't know, altho JT is rotating some guys from C to ROT. We need to be sure the ones we keep are worth it. Same goes for DL , OLB, and esp CBs. If we just need 2 OLs, fine. If 4 , ok, but that is ugly. Prime importance, tho, in knowing your talent...or not.

Someone posted we don't do that...ie play the next 9 games paying attn. to who is a keeper and who isn't. Well, if that is even remotely true, it has to change. It is unconscionable to draft or FA without this knowledge. Obviously it would greatly be to our advantage if gab can be the bridge Qb we need so we can concentrate elsewhere if he can handle Qb with a schid OL. But we HAVE TO KNOW. I don't really favor gab, but I damn sure want to know if he can bridge Qb for us for a yr, maybe 2. If not, then we ALSO need a bridge Qb...and it would really be nice not to have to get one of those also. So play gab, no OL and all. Get Brown in there...he is heir apparent. Get Devey out, martin out. Those guys just have not showed anything. Same goes for every slot on the team.

Out of order, but before we do anything in draft, FA....we have to fix the coaching. Our biggest need on the team? an OC who can be our HC. In fact, like Bill Walsh, Sean Payton, and others, an OC/HC would actually be my choice. Don't need an OC that way, and you know for sure your O is going to be looked after. Need to do thorough housecleaning in coaching, save maybe rathman. That, guys, has to be job #1. Then we can get to the OL, QB if HC wants one initially or not, DL, passrusher OLB, CBs, and so on.

This season is all about preparing for next. My priorities for the rest of this season:

• Find a young interior O-Lineman who can be a starter for the future. Either Brandon Thomas or Marcus Martin need to step up and show they have a role in the future. Thomas has never really gotten a chance, and Martin is so young and inexperienced that I'm not really to give up on him. I'm so done with Devey.
• Start giving AA and Caradine some serious time on the D-line, and playing on rushing downs. You really need to see what you have there, especially with Tank.
• Changing of the LB guard. Start Hodges and Harold. Again, see what you have there vs. continuing to run out Wilhoite & Brooks.

Then in the offseason, let Boldin/Vernon go, and release Brooks. Then re-up Boone/Ian Williams and target three players in FA to fill big holes before the draft:

1. Cordy Glenn OT
2. Alshon Jeffrey WR
3. Bruce Irvin OLB/DE

These are all high-profile positions where we lost big-time talent in the offseason. We don't have the luxury of 3 1st round picks this year to fill all the holes, and we need to rely on Free Agency to help. Good news is that we should have the $$$ to get all three. I'm still holding out hope that A Davis comes back next year, but we need to be thinking of him more as a Guard than a starting tackle. Then going into the draft, we'd have:

Offense
QB – Kaep / Gabbert
HB – Hyde / Davis
FB – Miller
WR – Jeffrey / Smelter
TE – McDonald / Celek
LT – Staley
LG – Boone
C – Kilgore / Martin
RG – A Davis / B Thomas
RT – Glenn
WR – T Smith / Ellington / Patton

Defense
LE – Armstead / Dial
NT – Williams / Dial
RE – Caradine / Dorsey
LOLB – Irvin / Harold
ILB – Bowman
ILB – Hodges
ROLB – Lynch / Harold
CB – Acker / Reaser
FS – Reid / Ward
SS – Tartt / Bathea
CB – Brock / Ward

Adding Glenn + a healthy Kilgore and return of A Davis would be a true makeover of our line. If Davis doesn't return, we'd be looking for either Martin or Thomas to be ready to step in at RG. When you add in a true #1 receiver, and 2nd pass rusher opposite Lynch, than I could see big improvement in our team. In the draft I'd target either Goff or one of the top Dlineman (Bosa / Nkemdiche).

Long story short, we've got to be big players in FA this year to fill some key holes. We can't go into the draft trying to get a starting QB/OT/WR/Pass Rusher. With all the parity in the NFL, I don't really believe in extended rebuilding processes. We need to turn this thing around quick to avoid developing a losing culture, and wasting the young/cheap years of guys like Lynch / Hyde, etc.

While I'm not sold on Kaep, we've proven we can win with him if we have a strong O-line and Defense. I wouldn't bank on a Rookie QB coming in and doing any better with this O-line, and WRs not getting any separation.

I know it's been talked about already but there's no way to know how personnel will look without knowing the coach/GM. It's all about what they want to run.

If JT returns my guess is this will continue to be a confusing looking roster because I'm not entirely sure he knows what he wants it to look like himself. He may not be a bad guy but he was a very poor hire if for no other reason than Balke had to tell the media he wanted "to run the ball."

I'd like to look at Kyle Shanny at HC with Mike Holmgren overseeing things for a few years. If that were the case then the offense will change quite a bit I believe and the personnel will change to fit.

Such a great thread. Lots of great suggestions and ideas going forward in here.

Originally posted by Bimbo_Coles:

This season is all about preparing for next. My priorities for the rest of this season:

• Find a young interior O-Lineman who can be a starter for the future. Either Brandon Thomas or Marcus Martin need to step up and show they have a role in the future. Thomas has never really gotten a chance, and Martin is so young and inexperienced that I'm not really to give up on him. I'm so done with Devey.
• Start giving AA and Caradine some serious time on the D-line, and playing on rushing downs. You really need to see what you have there, especially with Tank.
• Changing of the LB guard. Start Hodges and Harold. Again, see what you have there vs. continuing to run out Wilhoite & Brooks.

Then in the offseason, let Boldin/Vernon go, and release Brooks. Then re-up Boone/Ian Williams and target three players in FA to fill big holes before the draft:

1. Cordy Glenn OT
2. Alshon Jeffrey WR
3. Bruce Irvin OLB/DE

These are all high-profile positions where we lost big-time talent in the offseason. We don't have the luxury of 3 1st round picks this year to fill all the holes, and we need to rely on Free Agency to help. Good news is that we should have the $$$ to get all three. I'm still holding out hope that A Davis comes back next year, but we need to be thinking of him more as a Guard than a starting tackle. Then going into the draft, we'd have:

Offense
QB – Kaep / Gabbert
HB – Hyde / Davis
FB – Miller
WR – Jeffrey / Smelter
TE – McDonald / Celek
LT – Staley
LG – Boone
C – Kilgore / Martin
RG – A Davis / B Thomas
RT – Glenn
WR – T Smith / Ellington / Patton

Defense
LE – Armstead / Dial
NT – Williams / Dial
RE – Caradine / Dorsey
LOLB – Irvin / Harold
ILB – Bowman
ILB – Hodges
ROLB – Lynch / Harold
CB – Acker / Reaser
FS – Reid / Ward
SS – Tartt / Bethea
CB – Brock / Ward

Adding Glenn + a healthy Kilgore and return of A Davis would be a true makeover of our line. If Davis doesn't return, we'd be looking for either Martin or Thomas to be ready to step in at RG. When you add in a true #1 receiver, and 2nd pass rusher opposite Lynch, than I could see big improvement in our team. In the draft I'd target either Goff or one of the top Dlineman (Bosa / Nkemdiche).

Long story short, we've got to be big players in FA this year to fill some key holes. We can't go into the draft trying to get a starting QB/OT/WR/Pass Rusher. With all the parity in the NFL, I don't really believe in extended rebuilding processes. We need to turn this thing around quick to avoid developing a losing culture, and wasting the young/cheap years of guys like Lynch / Hyde, etc.

While I'm not sold on Kaep, we've proven we can win with him if we have a strong O-line and Defense. I wouldn't bank on a Rookie QB coming in and doing any better with this O-line, and WRs not getting any separation.

Terrific post...you've got Bell and Busta at TE too as well McCray, White, Anderson, etc. Some very nice ST studs, role-starters, role players, legit depth, etc.

Where's the part where we find a franchise QB?

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
It's interesting that you say that Raiders could add a RG and RT and they could be a good team. Where would you rate the Raiders RG and RT right now? If we swapped Devey and Pears with the Raiders starting RG and RT, how would their offense look verses ours? Or maybe if we swapped coaching staffs. Do you believe we would look the way we do now with a coaching staff that actually knew how to use the players we have? I'm no Jack Del Rio fan, but I'm curious to know how do you think the Raiders would look with our staff and how we'd look if we had theirs

And no I was not kidding with the Armstead comment. Armstead has looked like our best D lineman when he's out there and it's in very limited action. I jumped the gun to say he's better, but I do believe that if he were starting, you'd see something special. I compared Lynch to Smith and right now, Lynch has performed better this season. It's a tough pill to swallow for Aldon Smith apologists who is a disaster waiting to happen. After beating the Ravens, how could you possibly state that you'd rather have their roster?

There is no way I'd take the Dolphins roster right now. A bad team with overpriced contracts after they just got rid of an overpriced player.

The Raiders have a hole at RG and RT. I don't consider their RG and RT as bad as Devey and Pears, but they aren't far off. The rest of their line is better than ours (Hudson is the best lineman on either team right now followed by Staley, Penn, Boone, and Jackson). They're already pretty close to being a good team and are currently killing the Chargers on the road.

I'm not at all impressed with the Raiders' coaching staff so far. They have a roster that has enough talent to make the playoffs and have underachieved so far. If you gave Tomsula and the 49ers' staff the same roster, I'd expect similar if not better performance. I think our playcalling on offense has been limited by having a terrible offensive line (but may be too conservative at times) and our defense just is not talented, but I don't have issues with the playcalling on defense. As I've said before, I don't think it matters who coaches the 49ers with the current roster - the team is just bad. Hopefully the draft and free agency change that.

Armstead isn't starting on a bad defensive line. I agree he's a bright spot on our defense and I hope he gets more playing time, but he's not a great player yet. Mack is considered one of the best young players in the league right now and Armstead is a backup. Smith's upside is still significantly higher than Lynch's. He hasn't put up amazing numbers yet, but once he shakes off the rust, he's going to produce 10+ sacks every season again (assuming he can stay out of trouble which I agree is a big assumption to make).

We beat the Ravens at home thanks to two interceptions from Flacco. They're still the better team. If we played them again at home, Vegas would still have us as the underdogs. If we played them in Baltimore, we'd be a 4-5 point underdog at least. The Dolphins also have a good football team that has underperformed so far this season, but is clearly talented. I like Tannehill, Miller, Pouncey, Landry, and Davante Parker (once fully healthy). Suh is probably overpaid, but their defense is turning it around.

It looks like both the Raiders and Dolphins will be .500 after today and neither have coaching staffs that are well thought of (Dolphins have an interim coach). I wouldn't be surprised if coaches would prefer to go there than the 49ers in the offseason, both because they have more talented rosters than the 49ers and they don't have Jed York. Dolphins are interested in Todd Haley which sucks because I was hoping he'd come here.

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:

And I didn't think it possible to be more depressed.

Lol this

Originally posted by Bimbo_Coles:

This season is all about preparing for next. My priorities for the rest of this season:

• Find a young interior O-Lineman who can be a starter for the future. Either Brandon Thomas or Marcus Martin need to step up and show they have a role in the future. Thomas has never really gotten a chance, and Martin is so young and inexperienced that I'm not really to give up on him. I'm so done with Devey.
• Start giving AA and Caradine some serious time on the D-line, and playing on rushing downs. You really need to see what you have there, especially with Tank.
• Changing of the LB guard. Start Hodges and Harold. Again, see what you have there vs. continuing to run out Wilhoite & Brooks.

Then in the offseason, let Boldin/Vernon go, and release Brooks. Then re-up Boone/Ian Williams and target three players in FA to fill big holes before the draft:

1. Cordy Glenn OT
2. Alshon Jeffrey WR
3. Bruce Irvin OLB/DE

These are all high-profile positions where we lost big-time talent in the offseason. We don't have the luxury of 3 1st round picks this year to fill all the holes, and we need to rely on Free Agency to help. Good news is that we should have the $$$ to get all three. I'm still holding out hope that A Davis comes back next year, but we need to be thinking of him more as a Guard than a starting tackle. Then going into the draft, we'd have:

Offense
QB – Kaep / Gabbert
HB – Hyde / Davis
FB – Miller
WR – Jeffrey / Smelter
TE – McDonald / Celek
LT – Staley
LG – Boone
C – Kilgore / Martin
RG – A Davis / B Thomas
RT – Glenn
WR – T Smith / Ellington / Patton

Defense
LE – Armstead / Dial
NT – Williams / Dial
RE – Caradine / Dorsey
LOLB – Irvin / Harold
ILB – Bowman
ILB – Hodges
ROLB – Lynch / Harold
CB – Acker / Reaser
FS – Reid / Ward
SS – Tartt / Bathea
CB – Brock / Ward

Adding Glenn + a healthy Kilgore and return of A Davis would be a true makeover of our line. If Davis doesn't return, we'd be looking for either Martin or Thomas to be ready to step in at RG. When you add in a true #1 receiver, and 2nd pass rusher opposite Lynch, than I could see big improvement in our team. In the draft I'd target either Goff or one of the top Dlineman (Bosa / Nkemdiche).

Long story short, we've got to be big players in FA this year to fill some key holes. We can't go into the draft trying to get a starting QB/OT/WR/Pass Rusher. With all the parity in the NFL, I don't really believe in extended rebuilding processes. We need to turn this thing around quick to avoid developing a losing culture, and wasting the young/cheap years of guys like Lynch / Hyde, etc.

While I'm not sold on Kaep, we've proven we can win with him if we have a strong O-line and Defense. I wouldn't bank on a Rookie QB coming in and doing any better with this O-line, and WRs not getting any separation.

Those would be great FA pickups and allow for some flexibility heading into the draft

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
I think our playcalling on offense has been limited by having a terrible offensive line (but may be too conservative at times) and our defense just is not talented, but I don't have issues with the playcalling on defense.

Good post. Agree about the offense being limited for two key reasons. 1) OL and 2) CKs psyche

Just think you have it backwards on the defense. Think we have a lot of talent on defense but scheme sucks. Mangini went 180 from Fangio. His defense is the equivalent of the HaRoman offense. No foundation. No identity. 100 different types of defenses in one playbook, new defensive game plan installed each week, too complex, doesn't play to proven player strengths, etc.

Originally posted by blm7754:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by blm7754:

That is probably true.... we probably won't pay Kap $17M next season. But with his deal the 49ers hold all the cards. We can either cut him OR restructure and pay him what he's shown he is worth (nobody seems to be considering that possibility).

We have seen (both in the past and recently) that when Kap has decent OL play, he is very good. If we cut him, he'd probably be the best FA QB available. So why wouldn't we restructure his deal to be more inline with his play?

His $100M+ deal is one that only QBs that can carry a team get and deserve. He wouldn't get near that from another team (his agent and the team know this). Why do you think Tomsula is so adamant that Kap is our QB? If Kap feels disrespected, there is no way he'd stick around as a FA.

It is in the best interest of the team for Kap to stay and restructure to a 2-3 year deal worth about $30M.

And you think Kap wouldn't feel disrespected when you want to sign him to a 3 year deal worth $30 mil?

Is more than that, the longer he carries on playing this bad, it will split the locker room, it always does. Players are human beings too, they see the QB, the highest paid guy on the team playing like a scrub, believe me they will start talking especially when you keep losing. Kap is going to feel that in due course.

You could by all means try that, but Baalke will need to draft a QB in the 1st regardless. Is suicidal not to draft a QB which he should have 2 years ago. No way am I banking on Kap to come good. And I can't see how Kap could agree to that if we are drafting a guy who is supposed to take over from him in due course.

Nah, it won't work.

Oh c'mon. Professional athletes deal with this all the time. They have too much pride in their work to run for another team or roll over and give way just because a rookie comes in. Competition always brings out the best in players. If we had a legit threat to take the job from Kap it would make him better.

Kap won't feel disrespected if we give him market value. After his body of work this season and last, he isn't going to get a huge deal somewhere else. I can't see any team giving him more than $14M / year average.

Also, I'm not suggesting we draft a QB in the 1st. It obviously depends on where we pick and who's available. But QBs taken in the top 15 picks fail (and doom their franchises for many years) just as often as they succeed.

I'd much rather see us pick a second tier QB in the high 2nd round (or maybe trade back in the 1st). Develop him for a few years. Build up a better OL and defense.

This is exactly what we did when we drafted Kap and kept Alex Smith. The problem is, Baalke had some terrible drafts following the 2011 one and failed to keep a solid OL and defense in order for Kap to grow.

Can't be worse then AJ stinkens I believe Oline and linebackers is the way to go for a turn around either through draft or FA