Is the D actually BETTER than last year?

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by crake49:
Is the D-line deeper than it has been in years for a good rotation? Yes.

Is the corner and secondary deep with real good speed and talent? Yes.

Is the combination of a 100% Bowman and Wilhoite better than Borland and Wilhoite? Yes.

Does the D have a deep corps of pass rushers? Yes.

Will there be more blitzing? Probably.

Will there be more scheme changes based on who they're playing? Probably.

All in all, the defense actually could be as good or better than last year. We'll see.

I'm on board!

Weren't we ranked #4 in total defense last year (if not mistaken)? And will all the changes and new players w/o game time experience with one another, it may take time before we get it together..

add in the fact that ManGenius will do defensive play calling, it's just hard to say that we will be better if not as good as..

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by crake49:
Is the D-line deeper than it has been in years for a good rotation? Yes.

Is the corner and secondary deep with real good speed and talent? Yes.

Is the combination of a 100% Bowman and Wilhoite better than Borland and Wilhoite? Yes.

Does the D have a deep corps of pass rushers? Yes.

Will there be more blitzing? Probably.

Will there be more scheme changes based on who they're playing? Probably.

All in all, the defense actually could be as good or better than last year. We'll see.

I'm on board!

Weren't we ranked #4 in total defense last year (if not mistaken)? And will all the changes and new players w/o game time experience with one another, it may take time before we get it together..

add in the fact that ManGenius will do defensive play calling, it's just hard to say that we will be better if not as good as..

We'll all find out pretty soon.

lol doubtful.

Concerned most about the CBs. No matter how talented they are, they're still noobs. I expect them to take their licks versus better WRs. It's a learning curve and they will be facing some savey vets.

I'm not worried about the Dline. Dorsey's a stud, Ian is solid and we have enough talent rotating. Dockets out to prove something and both Arik and Dobbs are fat enough to sit there and clog lanes. Our pass rush will come from the OLBs, anyway.

Just for context/perspective:

10 Most Important Bears of 2015:

#2 Can Vic Fangio make the defense respectable?
By Lester A. Wiltfong Jr.  @wiltfongjr on Jul 16, 2015, 5:30p 59


For the 7th straight year, I'm bringing you who I believe will be the ten most important Chicago Bears for the upcoming season. Coming in at number 2 is the second coach in a row, defensive coordinator Vic Fangio.

I've never seen the adjective "dumpster-fire" used more than in the last two years when it was used to describe the Chicago Bears' defense.

The defensive coordination from Mel Tucker the last two years was laughable. In 2013, the Bears' D ranked 30th in both points allowed and in yards allowed. In 2014, the Bears were 31st in points allowed and 30th in yards allowed. Yeah, there were some injuries that hurt, but Tucker did nothing from a schematic standpoint to right the ship.

Mel Tucker presided over the two worst defenses in the 94 year history of the franchise. We're talking about a franchise that is historically known for having good defense, The Monsters of the Midway. For some historical perspective, there have been 47 separate seasons where the Bears ranked in the top 5 in points allowed and 46 different years when the Bears were top 5 in yards allowed.

In other words, half of the franchise's existence has been spent with good and sometimes great defense being played.

Enter Vic Fangio.

Chicago's new defensive coordinator spent the last four years with the San Francisco 49ers. During that time he had a top 5 unit in points allowed all 4 years and in 3 of the 4 years his D was top 5 in yards allowed. His defense was also top 5 in takeaways twice.

Fangio had to coach around a number of injuries and suspensions last year, but he still had one of the better Ds in the game. To further illustrate Fangio's work we turn to Football Outsiders.

Football Outsiders tracks Adjusted Games Lost (AGL), which they describe this way.

...we are able to quantify how much teams were affected by injuries based on two principles: (1) Injuries to starters, injury replacements, and important situational reserves matter more than injuries to benchwarmers; and (2) Injured players who do take the field are usually playing with reduced ability, which is why AGL is not based strictly on whether or not the player is active for the game, but instead is based on the player's listed status that week (IR/PUP, out, doubtful, questionable, or probable).

For the 2014 season the 49ers ranked 31st in AGL on the defensive side of the ball. Keep in mind this doesn't take into account him losing All Pro Aldon Smith to a nine game suspension or losing starter Ray McDonald when the Niners cut ties prior to their final two games.

While the 2013 season wasn't as injury plagued on defense for Fangio's 49ers, they were still ranked 26th in AGL.

Talent can trump scheme in many occasions, but it's nice to have a coach that isn't afraid to try different things and to mix things up. Fangio has a versatile system where he can plug players in and not have the extreme drop off that some of his contemporaries do.

A big reason for this is the way he runs his 3-4 defense. It's not always 2 gap principles up front, in fact it's not always a 3-4 look from the front 7. He's very comfortable giving 40 front looks to an offense. He'll even change things on a week to week basis.

In 2013, our sister site, Niners Nation, had a really good write up on San Francisco's base defense.

...you'll see the 49ers run a mix of 3-4 and 4-3 under fronts based on the team, formation and specific offensive players on the field. It's just another way that the coaching staff modifies their approach to be as effective as they can be on a play-by-play basis.

Fangio may not have the exact players he would like to run everything he wants, but he definitely has enough talent and the know-how to put something competitive together.

Bucky Brooks, NFL Media analyst for NFL.com, has Fangio ranked as the #2 defensive coordinator in the league. Here's some of what he said.

The best defenses in football are not only fundamentally sound, but they exhibit a collective energy, toughness and physicality that overwhelms opponents over the course of the game. Fangio's defenses in San Francisco consistently exhibited those traits.

Given his recent track record and esteemed reputation, it's only a matter of time before the Bears' defense returns to the ranks of the elite under his tutelage.

Last year seemed to have players loafing from time to time, and there wasn't much accountability from the coaches. Whether that was due to a lack of respect for the coaching staff or players simply checking out as the loses piled up, the Bears locker room needed a change.

Implementing a 3-4 defense for the first time in the history of the franchise is about a big a change that there is. But it's one that should pay dividends.

"Everything is different," end-turned-outside-linebacker Jared Allen said. "It's kind of a fresh start. In defenses I've been in over the years overall, and being in this scheme, this is a fun defense to play in.

"There's a high-level of accountability for everybody, and I've always felt that breeds greatness. There are no excuses. Either you are right or you are wrong, and you have the freedom to make plays. The sky is the limit for us."

It's not just the Mel Tucker holdovers that are happy with Fangio, but the newcomers are excited too

"Vic is the ultimate defensive coach," outside linebacker Sam Acho said. "He loves defense. He loves schemes, and he's a great teacher. That's what I love about him. He understands the game. He understands how to teach it to us as players on a very basic level where we can play on a high level."

"He is very creative," (new OLB Pernell) McPhee said. "It might not look like it sometimes because of the schemes, but [it's] really aggressive. So every time, when I think about it, even when I watch the practice film, I'll be like, 'Damn, This guy is really creative.' "

The 56 year old Fangio has been coaching football since 1979, but this job may be the most challenging of his career. He has to not only transform the dumpster-fire that was into something respectable, but he has to transition them from a 4-3 to a 3-4.

Fortunately for Vic Fangio, this 2015 Bears defense has no where to go but up.

http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2015/7/16/8979367/10-most-important-bears-of-2015-2-can-vic-fangio-make-the-defense

The only thing that I got is that he can plug and play players..lol

Originally posted by Marvin49:
I am certainly not saying they WILL be better...but it's possible.

While the media, opposing fans, and nihilistic Niner fans would have you believe that all the wheels have fallen off, they often forget a few things...

1) "OMG, Patrick Willis retired!!". Right..I love the guy, but Pat missed 10.5 games last year.
2) "OMG, Borland Retired!!!". Right, Borland only started 7 games last year...and he only played because Pat was hurt. These "two" losses are only one position.
3) Oh yeah, and Bowman didn't play a single down last year. He's back now.
4) WIlhoite quietly played very well last year.
5) "OMG, Justin Smith retired!!!". Just like Pat, I loved the guy, but can we stop pretending he was the same guy he was in 2011? He wasn't. He knew it. THAT's why he retired. New Blood there is needed in a big way. Will they be just like Justin? Of course not. However, neither was Justin last year.
6) "OMG, they lost both starting corners!!!". This one cracks me up the most. Two starting corners? By starting corners do you mean 1 guy in his first year as a starter and another guy claimed off the scrapheap that was replacing an injured starter? When did Parrish Cox become irreplaceable? Brock is back and they have a number of young guys to compete on the other side. Hell, the Niners lost both starting corners LAST year too (Rogers and Brown)...and that seems to have worked out OK.
7) Barring injuries and new stupidity, Aldon will play 16 games for the 1st time since the 2012 season. Nuff said.

As usual, always great insight from Marvin.

Ian Williams is a concern being blown back play after play is hard on the knees , I worry it snaps like a twig at some point . Docket should see less action so not so much . Darnell will be a steady performer but not few highlife moments . Dial and carradine they excite the crap outta me ! I expect one of them to see pro bowl consideration . Dorsey will be solid . Linebackers bowman and whilote man can go either way . Not sold on whilote and Navarro well hope the leg holds up .aldon I think has the highest ceiling possible pro bowl season ahead for him I see him being a constant threat , amazing what a contract year can Do . Now for the group I'm most worried about ... The secondary . We're smaller then I'd like all across the board I think balke should have drafted us a shut down guy .so are we going to be better ... Yes .... Does the secondary blow it for the rest of us ..... Probably in playoffs .... Yes.

Originally posted by bleedredandgold:

Ian Williams is a concern being blown back play after play is hard on the knees , I worry it snaps like a twig at some point . Docket should see less action so not so much . Darnell will be a steady performer but not few highlife moments . Dial and carradine they excite the crap outta me ! I expect one of them to see pro bowl consideration . Dorsey will be solid . Linebackers bowman and whilote man can go either way . Not sold on whilote and Navarro well hope the leg holds up .aldon I think has the highest ceiling possible pro bowl season ahead for him I see him being a constant threat , amazing what a contract year can Do . Now for the group I'm most worried about ... The secondary . We're smaller then I'd like all across the board I think balke should have drafted us a shut down guy .so are we going to be better ... Yes .... Does the secondary blow it for the rest of us ..... Probably in playoffs .... Yes.

I don't see Ian being blown back play after play. He's a good NT imo. His leg injury was from being chop blocked. He needs to be wary of OLs that employ this tactic.
I'm excited to see Mangini's confusion inducing defense. It is the polar opposite of what Fangio was doing. Fangio also caused confusion, but it was from giving the same presnap look, play after play, then postsnap, he revealed the coverage he was coming with.
All the blitzing will place more pressure on the secondary so I hope they are up to the task. I consider Brock a legit #1 CB when healthy, based on his 2013 performance. He was damn good.

I think a similar level of performance is a highly reasonable expectation. In spite of the losses.

I'd give it about equal money as to them being better or worse. I lean towards better as I like a lot of our talent which hasn't seen the field much and we should, statistically speaking, be healthier than last year.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if we were the top defense in the league by the end of the year. Wouldn't surprise me that much if we fell back a bit either. I expect in the top 5 with some growing pains from some of the kids made up for by flashes of talent at other times.

Originally posted by Evilgenius:
I think a similar level of performance is a highly reasonable expectation. In spite of the losses.

I'd give it about equal money as to them being better or worse. I lean towards better as I like a lot of our talent which hasn't seen the field much and we should, statistically speaking, be healthier than last year.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if we were the top defense in the league by the end of the year. Wouldn't surprise me that much if we fell back a bit either. I expect in the top 5 with some growing pains from some of the kids made up for by flashes of talent at other times.

I'm w/you.

Top 5.

I think, we'll have a better Dline because of the rotation and the cross training to help with filling in for injuries.

I think our LB will be better used and be attacking more.

I also think our secondary will improve w/Brock returning, Dontae stepping up, Bathea & Reid patrolling, Tart adding some smack and also a good rotation

Not sure til they hit the field. I'm not sure at all about how the corners will hold up and I'm not sure if the scheme will be better or worse. If Fangio was still around I'd be more inclined to say it will be just as good or better than last year. Just have to wait and see what Mangini and this staff can accomplish. They still have a lot of talent on that side of the ball though.

Look, the last time we all got so hype like this was Samurai Mike's last year.. we were picked to win the division, we were picked to finally blossom, and we were supposed to be at our PEAKED..

I remember the team came out hand on hand with the white 49er flag in Seattle, so pumped up, but only to lose by 31-10 ( i think )???

Originally posted by Team49ers:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
I am certainly not saying they WILL be better...but it's possible.

While the media, opposing fans, and nihilistic Niner fans would have you believe that all the wheels have fallen off, they often forget a few things...

1) "OMG, Patrick Willis retired!!". Right..I love the guy, but Pat missed 10.5 games last year.
2) "OMG, Borland Retired!!!". Right, Borland only started 7 games last year...and he only played because Pat was hurt. These "two" losses are only one position.
3) Oh yeah, and Bowman didn't play a single down last year. He's back now.
4) WIlhoite quietly played very well last year.
5) "OMG, Justin Smith retired!!!". Just like Pat, I loved the guy, but can we stop pretending he was the same guy he was in 2011? He wasn't. He knew it. THAT's why he retired. New Blood there is needed in a big way. Will they be just like Justin? Of course not. However, neither was Justin last year.
6) "OMG, they lost both starting corners!!!". This one cracks me up the most. Two starting corners? By starting corners do you mean 1 guy in his first year as a starter and another guy claimed off the scrapheap that was replacing an injured starter? When did Parrish Cox become irreplaceable? Brock is back and they have a number of young guys to compete on the other side. Hell, the Niners lost both starting corners LAST year too (Rogers and Brown)...and that seems to have worked out OK.
7) Barring injuries and new stupidity, Aldon will play 16 games for the 1st time since the 2012 season. Nuff said.

As usual, always great insight from Marvin.

yep marvin said nothing wrong,, i have always contended the problem many people have is that they thought we made major changes to the 2011 or 2012 team,, last years team , players and coaches did not play as well or coach as well as they did in 2012, well cept for roman who got worse. but i forgot, he had morton helping him to call plays,,, now if that scenario is not a cry out for major changes in the off season, well i just do not know

i am also pretty confident that unlike last year,, if we make five or six picks in a game vs the giants, we will not have to go down to the last second to win a close game all those eli picks and we still almost lost