Is the D actually BETTER than last year?

Originally posted by SoCold:
I'll comment on this after the 4th preseason game.

i'll comment on this after the 4th REGULAR season game

I guess many of us are thinking along these lines, but don't want to say it. With the speed rush packages this team can put on the field we'll see in preseason where this team is headed.

Preseason is pretty vanilla, I don't know how anyone can predict how well our defense will be by those games

Originally posted by Chico:

Originally posted by SoCold:
I'll comment on this after the 4th preseason game.

i'll comment on this after the 4th REGULAR season game

I don't think we'll show much in preseason.

By the 4th game OLine and D should be gelling and the new systems either working or not working.

We'll see!

Originally posted by Marvin49:
I am certainly not saying they WILL be better...but it's possible.

While the media, opposing fans, and nihilistic Niner fans would have you believe that all the wheels have fallen off, they often forget a few things...

1) "OMG, Patrick Willis retired!!". Right..I love the guy, but Pat missed 10.5 games last year.
2) "OMG, Borland Retired!!!". Right, Borland only started 7 games last year...and he only played because Pat was hurt. These "two" losses are only one position.
3) Oh yeah, and Bowman didn't play a single down last year. He's back now.
4) WIlhoite quietly played very well last year.
5) "OMG, Justin Smith retired!!!". Just like Pat, I loved the guy, but can we stop pretending he was the same guy he was in 2011? He wasn't. He knew it. THAT's why he retired. New Blood there is needed in a big way. Will they be just like Justin? Of course not. However, neither was Justin last year.
6) "OMG, they lost both starting corners!!!". This one cracks me up the most. Two starting corners? By starting corners do you mean 1 guy in his first year as a starter and another guy claimed off the scrapheap that was replacing an injured starter? When did Parrish Cox become irreplaceable? Brock is back and they have a number of young guys to compete on the other side. Hell, the Niners lost both starting corners LAST year too (Rogers and Brown)...and that seems to have worked out OK.
7) Barring injuries and new stupidity, Aldon will play 16 games for the 1st time since the 2012 season. Nuff said.

Very good take man!

Originally posted by Marvin49:
I am certainly not saying they WILL be better...but it's possible.

While the media, opposing fans, and nihilistic Niner fans would have you believe that all the wheels have fallen off, they often forget a few things...

1) "OMG, Patrick Willis retired!!". Right..I love the guy, but Pat missed 10.5 games last year.
2) "OMG, Borland Retired!!!". Right, Borland only started 7 games last year...and he only played because Pat was hurt. These "two" losses are only one position.
3) Oh yeah, and Bowman didn't play a single down last year. He's back now.
4) WIlhoite quietly played very well last year.
5) "OMG, Justin Smith retired!!!". Just like Pat, I loved the guy, but can we stop pretending he was the same guy he was in 2011? He wasn't. He knew it. THAT's why he retired. New Blood there is needed in a big way. Will they be just like Justin? Of course not. However, neither was Justin last year.
6) "OMG, they lost both starting corners!!!". This one cracks me up the most. Two starting corners? By starting corners do you mean 1 guy in his first year as a starter and another guy claimed off the scrapheap that was replacing an injured starter? When did Parrish Cox become irreplaceable? Brock is back and they have a number of young guys to compete on the other side. Hell, the Niners lost both starting corners LAST year too (Rogers and Brown)...and that seems to have worked out OK.
7) Barring injuries and new stupidity, Aldon will play 16 games for the 1st time since the 2012 season. Nuff said.

Agreed with everything you've said about the players, but you've left one big thing out and made one big assumption:

Assumption: At this time last year the injuries we'd all like to count hadn't happened either (Willis, Brock, Borland, Williams, Dorsey), and there's yet-to-be-named injuries that will likely end up being part of the equation. At this time last year we also thought we'd have half of a season with Aldon on the field as old Aldon, and expecting him to not be new Aldon on the field anymore is, at the end of the day, a pretty big assumption.

Missing: Fangio and Donatell. They're huge wild cards as we don't know how much of the 9ers success was talent versus scheme, but that Fangio was able to go the plug-and-play DB route year in and year out and everyone who left stunk up their new joints (e.g. Goldson, Rogers, T. Brown...Whitner didn't fall off that much) makes me think that succeeding with revolving DBs might have left the building with Fangio.

Our D was very very very good last year considering all the injuries we had.. our new D has yet to play a game this year, they can no possibly be better..

Is the D-line deeper than it has been in years for a good rotation? Yes.

Is the corner and secondary deep with real good speed and talent? Yes.

Is the combination of a 100% Bowman and Wilhoite better than Borland and Wilhoite? Yes.

Does the D have a deep corps of pass rushers? Yes.

Will there be more blitzing? Probably.

Will there be more scheme changes based on who they're playing? Probably.

All in all, the defense actually could be as good or better than last year. We'll see.

Not sure. We have DL coming off injuries and J. Smith retired.

We lost CBs and MLBs also.


Last year we had a ton of injuries so its hard to say.

D as a whole will be hard to grade. I think OLB will be better as a whole because of Aldon. Safeties should be the same. Then at that point no one knows. MLB should be better because of Bowman(If back at full strength), who I would prefer over the combo of willis for 6 games and borland for 8. Dline is deep, and the youngins played well last year, but lets see if they can take the full time load, dorsey and ian should be solid as well. CB is just our right confusing no one knows nothing, can brock stay healthy, how will the young guys look, will the vets picked up in FA benefit from a change of scenery?

They have the talent to be a top 10 defense, but wil the young guys step up, and the vets returning from injury play to their old form to bring that hope to fruition? Lots of questions, but not nearly as bad as the sheeple who solely follow the media's opinion would have you believe

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
I am certainly not saying they WILL be better...but it's possible.

While the media, opposing fans, and nihilistic Niner fans would have you believe that all the wheels have fallen off, they often forget a few things...

1) "OMG, Patrick Willis retired!!". Right..I love the guy, but Pat missed 10.5 games last year.
2) "OMG, Borland Retired!!!". Right, Borland only started 7 games last year...and he only played because Pat was hurt. These "two" losses are only one position.
3) Oh yeah, and Bowman didn't play a single down last year. He's back now.
4) WIlhoite quietly played very well last year.
5) "OMG, Justin Smith retired!!!". Just like Pat, I loved the guy, but can we stop pretending he was the same guy he was in 2011? He wasn't. He knew it. THAT's why he retired. New Blood there is needed in a big way. Will they be just like Justin? Of course not. However, neither was Justin last year.
6) "OMG, they lost both starting corners!!!". This one cracks me up the most. Two starting corners? By starting corners do you mean 1 guy in his first year as a starter and another guy claimed off the scrapheap that was replacing an injured starter? When did Parrish Cox become irreplaceable? Brock is back and they have a number of young guys to compete on the other side. Hell, the Niners lost both starting corners LAST year too (Rogers and Brown)...and that seems to have worked out OK.
7) Barring injuries and new stupidity, Aldon will play 16 games for the 1st time since the 2012 season. Nuff said.

Agreed with everything you've said about the players, but you've left one big thing out and made one big assumption:

Assumption: At this time last year the injuries we'd all like to count hadn't happened either (Willis, Brock, Borland, Williams, Dorsey), and there's yet-to-be-named injuries that will likely end up being part of the equation. At this time last year we also thought we'd have half of a season with Aldon on the field as old Aldon, and expecting him to not be new Aldon on the field anymore is, at the end of the day, a pretty big assumption.

Missing: Fangio and Donatell. They're huge wild cards as we don't know how much of the 9ers success was talent versus scheme, but that Fangio was able to go the plug-and-play DB route year in and year out and everyone who left stunk up their new joints (e.g. Goldson, Rogers, T. Brown...Whitner didn't fall off that much) makes me think that succeeding with revolving DBs might have left the building with Fangio.

1) Of course there will be injuries. I'm not making any guarantees here. The prob is peeps look at the losses and make assumptions about to importance of those players to the effectiveness of the D last year. They were less relevant than the big names would suggest.

2) Yes, coaching will be a big ?. That's why I didn't make any guarantees. We'll have to see how the new scheme/coaches play out. My only point wa that the downgrade in terms of personnel has been greatly exaggerated on the defensive side of the ball. O-Line? Now that's where I have huge concerns.

Put another way....

Starting LBs week to week last year

1-5) Skuta-Willis-Wilhoite-Brooks
6-9) Skuta-Borland-Wilhoite-Brooks
10-12) Aldon-Borland-Wilhoite-Brooks
13) Aldon-Borland-Wilhoite-Lynch
14) Aldon-Borland-Wilhoite-Brooks
15-16) Aldon-Moody-Wilhoite-Lynch

Week 1 2015

Aldon-Bowman-Wilhoite-Brooks

49ers LBs were NEVER at full strength last year. Not for a single down. They were down 2 or 3 guys ALL SEASON.

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Put another way....

Starting LBs week to week last year

1-5) Skuta-Willis-Wilhoite-Brooks
6-9) Skuta-Borland-Wilhoite-Brooks
10-12) Aldon-Borland-Wilhoite-Brooks
13) Aldon-Borland-Wilhoite-Lynch
14) Aldon-Borland-Wilhoite-Brooks
15-16) Aldon-Moody-Wilhoite-Lynch

Week 1 2015

Aldon-Bowman-Wilhoite-Brooks

49ers LBs were NEVER at full strength last year. Not for a single down. They were down 2 or 3 guys ALL SEASON.

we gone be alright! (Kendrick voice)

Im all for being optimsistic, but given all the ? I cant see how you can say the D is better until they prove it. DL is unproven for the most part and nobody has any idea who our CBs will be. I know we had many injuries last year but the D last year proved what it could do. This year is a buncha guys who look decent-good on paper. Gotta wait and see, it could be better, but to say that and TC hasnt even started yet is junping the gun way too hard.

Originally posted by Antix:
Im all for being optimsistic, but given all the ? I cant see how you can say the D is better until they prove it. DL is unproven for the most part and nobody has any idea who our CBs will be. I know we had many injuries last year but the D last year proved what it could do. This year is a buncha guys who look decent-good on paper. Gotta wait and see, it could be better, but to say that and TC hasnt even started yet is junping the gun way too hard.

I love our new defense. Our d-line will be formidable with our two nose tackles back. Dial has snaps under his belt, Tank and Dockett will fill in nicely during passing downs, and Armstead is going to surprise. I called it before, and I'll call it again, I see him having the play of the year against Marshawn Lynch...a JaDeveon Clowney type of hit in the backfield that changes the course of both team's seasons.

As long as Bowman is healthy we will have a strong MLB core with Wilhoite, Moody, and the others. Our OLB depth is ridiculous. They are going to antagonize opposing offenses on all 3 downs -- everything will be funneled to the middle for Bowman and Co. to clean up. Rookie safety Tartt will help offset the loss of Willis and Borland with his linebacker size and presence and LOS play ability.

Our secondary is in good hands with Bethea and Reid. I just hope Reid doesn't get another concussion otherwise the party might be over for him :(

I have faith in our cornerbacks led by Brock. I wish we had kept Perrish Cox, but Chris Cook and Wright are experienced, DJ has a year under his belt, and we have Reaser and Acker looking to make an immediate impact. Our pass rush is going to make their lives a little easier.

Mangini is the X-factor. If everyone buys in and he is game planning week to week and is putting the right people in the right place I think the sky's the limit with the talent on D that we have.

I say we end up as a top 5 Defense in both yards and points allowed, and turnovers forced.