Who was the 9ers' biggest loss this offseason?

I voted Borland, but still have Willis at pretty much a tie.

Willis and J. Smith

Originally posted by NCommand:
Good post AB...always appreciate the discussion.

RDE Justin Smith...naturally we only have a small sample size with Carradine (3 starts at the end of last year) but his stats say he averages the same number of tackles per game but with x3 the sack rate of 2014 Justin-version...a defense that still finished top 7 against the run. That's evidence that Carradine has good potential and needed more snaps and/or that Justin has fallen off (naturally) in production. In 2015, Justin couldn't go. He tried hard to come back but couldn't. Therefore, the reality is no matter what production we get from Tank/AA/Dial at RDE, it's an arrow-up over an absent player...a player who was forced to retire d/t over-usage and lingering issues. Is his leadership a loss? Yes. Can the 2014 production be duplicated by one or multiple players? I believe so.

ILB Patrick Willis/Chris Borland...neither in 2015 are physically in position to play (reality) at any level and esp. at the level they both were accustomed to play. I'd prefer the play-making Borland of 2014 when he was on the field and not on I.R. over Wilhoite esp. in 2015 next to Bowman...but that's not reality so again, hard for me to count it a loss. Reports too are that Wilhoite is playing very well and even ahead of Bowman in the playbook. Him in year 2 next to Bowman should be pretty darn good in a position that ALWAYS produces big production in our 3-4. Willis could hardly walk...no freaking way would I put him on the field next to Bowman. That's just reality. Is it a "loss?" It depends on how you are defining the 2015 conditions of Willis and Borland. Borland to me was a "loss" b/c he was secure in his contract, young and arrow up and would be competing with Wilhoite right now. That part is a "loss."

RB Frank Gore...nope, no way. He was wishy-washy at best in the FA market and HE made his choice. It was time to move on from an older player who does not fit a ZBS and who, sadly, contributed to much of the predictabilty of this offense over the year (stack the box and run blitz up to 10 players). It was time for youth, power, speed, hunger, diversity (ability to run inside, off tackle, PP, catch passes, develop, arrow-up, etc.) and a much less predictable offense. Me? I'm going with Hyde/Davis/Bush/Hunter all day every day as a GM!

Agreed with the rest and you bring up the biggest piece to this...salary cap room. You guys want to keep Aldon and Boone right? There you go...the turnover was inevitable but I hope you guys can get excited about the young guys once things settle in more. Many of these players have been waiting 1-2-3 years for their chance and have learned from the best in the game! It's their time...let's see what these guys have now.

I just need to see more from Tank to be convinced he can be as good as Justin was.

The best thing is the extra cap room from 2015-2018 that is saved, but we have to spend wisely, and draft wisely, Aldon, Boone will cost a fortune IMO, so idk who sticks.

Plus we have to decide on Reid's 5th year option next offseason, plus the 2013 picks will be eligible for new deals after 2015.

Harbaugh.

As much as I love Gore and his effectiveness to still force 8 in the box. Willis is the player i'd choose. Patrick Willis should have been our version of what Ray Lewis is to Baltimore. His presence

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Good post AB...always appreciate the discussion.

RDE Justin Smith...naturally we only have a small sample size with Carradine (3 starts at the end of last year) but his stats say he averages the same number of tackles per game but with x3 the sack rate of 2014 Justin-version...a defense that still finished top 7 against the run. That's evidence that Carradine has good potential and needed more snaps and/or that Justin has fallen off (naturally) in production. In 2015, Justin couldn't go. He tried hard to come back but couldn't. Therefore, the reality is no matter what production we get from Tank/AA/Dial at RDE, it's an arrow-up over an absent player...a player who was forced to retire d/t over-usage and lingering issues. Is his leadership a loss? Yes. Can the 2014 production be duplicated by one or multiple players? I believe so.

ILB Patrick Willis/Chris Borland...neither in 2015 are physically in position to play (reality) at any level and esp. at the level they both were accustomed to play. I'd prefer the play-making Borland of 2014 when he was on the field and not on I.R. over Wilhoite esp. in 2015 next to Bowman...but that's not reality so again, hard for me to count it a loss. Reports too are that Wilhoite is playing very well and even ahead of Bowman in the playbook. Him in year 2 next to Bowman should be pretty darn good in a position that ALWAYS produces big production in our 3-4. Willis could hardly walk...no freaking way would I put him on the field next to Bowman. That's just reality. Is it a "loss?" It depends on how you are defining the 2015 conditions of Willis and Borland. Borland to me was a "loss" b/c he was secure in his contract, young and arrow up and would be competing with Wilhoite right now. That part is a "loss."

RB Frank Gore...nope, no way. He was wishy-washy at best in the FA market and HE made his choice. It was time to move on from an older player who does not fit a ZBS and who, sadly, contributed to much of the predictabilty of this offense over the year (stack the box and run blitz up to 10 players). It was time for youth, power, speed, hunger, diversity (ability to run inside, off tackle, PP, catch passes, develop, arrow-up, etc.) and a much less predictable offense. Me? I'm going with Hyde/Davis/Bush/Hunter all day every day as a GM!

Agreed with the rest and you bring up the biggest piece to this...salary cap room. You guys want to keep Aldon and Boone right? There you go...the turnover was inevitable but I hope you guys can get excited about the young guys once things settle in more. Many of these players have been waiting 1-2-3 years for their chance and have learned from the best in the game! It's their time...let's see what these guys have now.

I just need to see more from Tank to be convinced he can be as good as Justin was.

The best thing is the extra cap room from 2015-2018 that is saved, but we have to spend wisely, and draft wisely, Aldon, Boone will cost a fortune IMO, so idk who sticks.

Plus we have to decide on Reid's 5th year option next offseason, plus the 2013 picks will be eligible for new deals after 2015.

I'm with you! Can Tank replicate that production for 16 games? With this depth though at RDE he may not need too all by himself. Production by committee along the DL, OLB, RB, WR, Tartt and others in the DIME/NICKEL, slot CB depending on the matchups, outside CB matchups (height, experience, speed, etc.), etc. I think we're going to see a lot more personnel groupings than what we've seen in the past. We'll see.

Well you know our cap better than anyone. We're in great shape going forward but that won't be as meaningful if we don't have a good to great foundation year.

This will be the year of coaching and development ON THE FIELD.

I appreciate the above thots, esp ABs and his list of the departed. That said, i think their losses will be negated by Harbaw no longer being around....and same goes for roman. Altho the losses of Justin, Borland, P-52 are significant, plus the CBs, I think baalke has set us up to basically even out their losses with new, younger players, and more importantly, a HC that the players respect and will play for. The last half of the season and certainly in the RAids game, it is no secret, the team quit playing for harbaw. As for crabs, i am with AB there.....that was no loss. Just got rid of a malcontent that will never be paid what he thinks he is worth. Good luck wtih that at his new home. Meantime , guys will want to play for JT and i bet we see a team better than we have had at anytime over the last 3 yrs. Yes it will take maybe the first quarter of the season, but the significant players we lost will be made up for by a coach the guys want to play for. Besides that, we are getting back as many guys as we drafted. It is like we have 16-18 "new" guys on the team.

Last yr was our yr for injuries, and now we have what is tantamount to 18 draft picks walking into camp. Always possible, but odds are against us seeing that kind of injury list again. We do need a guy who can make Kap all he can be. The former QB whisperer....well, he wasn't , and now that he and his OC are gone, i look for a career season from kap, who needs to break thru this yr if he wants to be the QB for the next 6-8 yrs here. Oddly, i think he has a much better shot now with harbaw out of the way. Kap has the tools. What he hasn't had are good game plans, nor good play calls. If he gets both those, he will overnite look all world. And why? Just from getting some dead wood out of the OC/HC slots.

So , put me down as positive ...very positive. Just from cutting the two guys that were dragging this team down for the last 2 yrs....OC and HC.

Willis hands down.

Justin Smith was expected,it´s still a loss, yet we drafted for this moment.

Gore, again we drafted RBs of simmilar profile in the last two drfats, Lattimore didn´t work out due to his injury, Hyde looks good. Again expected.

Originally posted by JeuSF49:
Willis hands down.

Justin Smith was expected,it´s still a loss, yet we drafted for this moment.

Gore, again we drafted RBs of simmilar profile in the last two drfats, Lattimore didn´t work out due to his injury, Hyde looks good. Again expected.

Yeah we even drafted for Willis and Borland quits.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
Harbaugh.

Oh yeah! I'm really going to miss that imaginative Harbaugh warmed-over Bo Schembechler offense. You know, the one that had division defensive players shouting out the plays before the snap. Huge loss.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
Harbaugh.

Oh yeah! I'm really going to miss that imaginative Harbaugh warmed-over Bo Schembechler offense. You know, the one that had division defensive players shouting out the plays before the snap. Huge loss.

We have to remember how young many of these fans are...Harbaugh is the ONLY period for which they saw a successful team for many of them. The older generation...even way older generations have lots and lots to draw from in comparison.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
Harbaugh.

Oh yeah! I'm really going to miss that imaginative Harbaugh warmed-over Bo Schembechler offense. You know, the one that had division defensive players shouting out the plays before the snap. Huge loss.

We have to remember how young many of these fans are...Harbaugh is the ONLY period for which they saw a successful team for many of them. The older generation...even way older generations have lots and lots to draw from in comparison.

Very good point. Thank you.

Willis. not even close, dude was the leader of this team and even if he wasnt as fast as he used to be he was still a great linebacker. very smart, nobody ever got the best of willis

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
Harbaugh.

Oh yeah! I'm really going to miss that imaginative Harbaugh warmed-over Bo Schembechler offense. You know, the one that had division defensive players shouting out the plays before the snap. Huge loss.

We have to remember how young many of these fans are...Harbaugh is the ONLY period for which they saw a successful team for many of them. The older generation...even way older generations have lots and lots to draw from in comparison.

Very good point. Thank you.

It's still annoying as #$^&* though! LOL

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
Harbaugh.

Oh yeah! I'm really going to miss that imaginative Harbaugh warmed-over Bo Schembechler offense. You know, the one that had division defensive players shouting out the plays before the snap. Huge loss.

We have to remember how young many of these fans are...Harbaugh is the ONLY period for which they saw a successful team for many of them. The older generation...even way older generations have lots and lots to draw from in comparison.

Very good point. Thank you.

It's still annoying as #$^&* though! LOL

yeah it is, but good point