Originally posted by SF9er05:
Originally posted by BOI49er:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by sevenup3000:
The sad thing about it is that if Kaepernick was Tannehill, or Ryan, or Stafford, or Cousins...both the franchise AND fanbase would be more than willing to be patient because at the end of the day...Kaepernick would be "their guy" and they would be rooting for him to succeed, personally. That is what separates Cousins from RGIII; a Kaepernick from Gabbert; a Bridgewater from Carr.
For some odd reason, their fanbases only want to be associated with RGIII, Kaepernick, Bridgewater, Newton, Wilson, etc. IF THEY ARE WINNING AND PLAYING WELL. The minute they are not...their fan bases are completely done with them. They are not INVESTED in the INDIVIDUAL. They do not particularly desire for them to be successful, and already have their preconceived notions regarding them, which is dramatically different from the way Cousins, Tannehill, Cutler, Luck, Carr etc. fan base feel about them. Despite the fact it could be argued that the former has accomplished 10x more than the later.
And the same will hold true for Winston. Let Tampa Bay fail to get to the playoffs next year. I promise you there will be LOUD voices in Tampa Bay screaming to bench Winston...the same as Kaepernick.
How many games do you think Kaepernick would last if he were Alex Smith in the first part of his career? What about Carr? Tannehill? Eli Manning?
I really hope the season of RGIII and Kaepernick, and how quickly and decisively their fan bases turned the backs on them, allowed FAR FAR greater leeway for their less talented, less accomplished backups, really opens a lot of eyes--both NFL fans and NFL players.
You appear to be very cautiously playing the race card. All of the QBS receiving patience in your example are white, all of those that you assert have not (or will not, lol) received a fair degree of patience are not.
I find this assertion lazy and weak. SF fans sh1t on Steve Young for years, and doesn't get any whiter than BYU. Obviously, he deserved more patience than he received from this fanbase. He was the best QB in the league, and he still got crapped on by 49er fans who thought Joe won a SB everytime he picked up a football.
There were as many 49er fans killing Alex Smith than there have been piling on Kap. Attitude matters, too. I think Kap's a real good (but shy) dude who's trying too damn hard to look cool and hard, and he comes off like a childish a55hole. Fans put up with it while he was winning, but that sh1t grates while the team is losing and fans want answers.
The best indication of how much more time and experience will help is not how much time a quarterback has, but how much progress he's making. Guys like Cousins, Winston, Bridgewater, Wilson, Newton and Carr all showed significant improvement early on. Guys like Cutler, Kaepernick, and RGIII never do.
It all gets back to Bill Walsh's number one required trait: athletic instincts. Not athleticism. Athletic instincts means understanding what those fellows on the other side of the ball are doing, and quickly knowing what you need to do to counter that. The guys named above have all been accurately described as only seeing half the field, as you have to keep their reads simple, or have a spectacular OL to give them time to figure it out. To be successful, they all require a great defense and running game. It's a matter of aptitude, for which more time will do little, not ethnic heritage.
Actually fans were calling for Newton's head 2013. Before the season began the analyst were saying the same things they say about Kaep now, they said Cam was a one read qb who can only run and throw the deep ball. However the biggest difference with Cam and Kaep is ownership. Jerry Richardson when he drafted Cam had a talk with him and let him know the scrutiny he would endure and not to lose focus with external happenings etc. This showed that Cam was his guy, he invested in and stuck by. Kaep had the complete opposite just like Alex did, the ownership with the Niners is truly what have you done for me and rightfully so its a business and its their choice they can run it however they deem necessary. The fact Carolina has stuck with Cam speaks volumes about their organization, now Kaep has shown promise he has shown he can play qb in the NFL now has he done it consistently? No and for those reasons he was benched however if we give Alex his just due which was deserved then we should be open to the same with Kaep. Im not saying anoint him the starter but allow him to come in and compete. He and Gabbert's numbers were very similar so its not like there was a huge gap in improved play. This year reminded me of the Mike Nolan years, no offensive philosophy, no o-line, etc.
As for the other qbs mentioned we cant hide the fact that certain qbs are given more chances than others. But the logical argument of showing improvement we can simply point to Jay Cutler, he puts up a ton of fantasy stats but throws a ton of INTs yet he doesnt get the cant read a defense argument or isnt a competent passer, his stats dont get dissected as to when/why his passing totals were so high. Andrew Luck is a good qb no doubt but each year he also throws a ton of INTs yet his TD/Int ratio is never really discussed. Russell Wilson hasnt exactly been the perfect fantasy qb but he gets the job done and has demonstrated his propensity to win. I do believe certain players get more chances than others however.
Good post. That "one read" crap that certain people like to throw out about certain QBs was especially said about Newton. Still is really.
But I would disagree with the bold. Not sure how much investing the Panthers did with Newton. Like I said, the Jaguars have done more to surround Blake with talent in his first second, than the Panthers have with Newton in his 5th.
Did they invest in defense? Absolutely. Buy on offense? Yeah, not so much.
And lets remember who Cam was coming into this season. Rookie of the Year, numerous rushing and PASSING NFL rookie records, 2x Pro Bowler, all sort of franchise rushing and PASSING records. NFL record for rushing and PASSING in his first 4 seasons. Lead the Panthers to 2 playoffs appearances, 1 playoff win---and doing it with just about the least amount of offensive talent in the league.
Despite all that, as you seem to indicate, there was a healthy amount of Panther "fans" ready to move on. 100 million dollar contract? Please. There were plenty of folks that wanted to trade Newton for draft picks and pick up Nick Foles!
The fact of the matter is playing QB in the NFL is difficult. If you have a talented QB...there WILL be ups and there WILL be downs. They will show flashes of brilliance at the beginning because they simply don't know any better. Teams WILL adjust to them. And they WILL struggle. But then they WILL learn and adjust. Fail a little bit...have a little bit of success...fail some more...succeed a little bit more. Until they finally reach that off season where they have seen everything the NFL has to throw at them. Only at that point will you get potentially consistently great play or possibly a MVP.
But it simply takes time to see everything that the NFL has to offer and then adjust appropriately.
I have no idea why the 49ers, who have SEEN flashes of brilliance from Kaepernick on some of the league's biggest stages, would bench that for...Gabbert, a guy that as NEVER shown ANY flashes of even semi-competence.
Save for maybe Brady and Rodgers, every NFL QB goes through periods where they are making this adjustment. And even in Brady's case...Brady was not "Brady" early in his career and in Rodgers case he didn't even start until his fourth season.