49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

individual talent evaluation isn't a measuring stick between OLs, there's flaws in that like Draft scouting

What about actual play behind that line:
QB hits
Sacks given up
INTs
QB Performance

some brought up pressure, but Pressure % doesn't tell the entire story unless TTT is factored in

idk, just throwing it out there instead of the norm that goes on here

Sure. No issues using those but you need to provide league averages at least so you have some context to compare too. The best thing about TW is they look at weekly matchups of OLvs.DL. Our OL playing Philly's DL is different level than playing the Cards.

But to your point, it's not just individual talent but how those individuals play as a unit. That's where the SME's come in and that's much more difficult to quantify using micro stats.

A perfect example is YAC's post below. As units, both PFF and TW have the Eagles as the #1 OL despite their own (PFF's) micro stats.

I am sure that a majority here would agree that results matter a hell of a lot more than rankings.

Agree, hence in part to why both tier 1 OL's are a combined 15-3 record so far.

If you acrually agreed you wouldn't be still spewing this tier 1 crap.

When actual SME's make these tiers, one should pay close attention despite another platforms micro stats...especially when that same site agrees with them as a tier 1 unit. See the contradiction?

IDGAF about rankings. Just results.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

individual talent evaluation isn't a measuring stick between OLs, there's flaws in that like Draft scouting

What about actual play behind that line:
QB hits
Sacks given up
INTs
QB Performance

some brought up pressure, but Pressure % doesn't tell the entire story unless TTT is factored in

idk, just throwing it out there instead of the norm that goes on here

Sure. No issues using those but you need to provide league averages at least so you have some context to compare too. The best thing about TW is they look at weekly matchups of OLvs.DL. Our OL playing Philly's DL is different level than playing the Cards.

But to your point, it's not just individual talent but how those individuals play as a unit. That's where the SME's come in and that's much more difficult to quantify using micro stats.

A perfect example is YAC's post below. As units, both PFF and TW have the Eagles as the #1 OL despite their own (PFF's) micro stats.

I am sure that a majority here would agree that results matter a hell of a lot more than rankings.

Agree, hence in part to why both tier 1 OL's are a combined 15-3 record so far.

If you actually agreed you wouldn't be still spewing this tier 1 crap. And your post makes it seem like O line's are now credited for wins and losses. Which is ridiculous.

No, TW tiers typically follow W's all the way through the playoffs and Superbowl wins. If your mirco stats did that, I'd be all over those instead.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

individual talent evaluation isn't a measuring stick between OLs, there's flaws in that like Draft scouting

What about actual play behind that line:
QB hits
Sacks given up
INTs
QB Performance

some brought up pressure, but Pressure % doesn't tell the entire story unless TTT is factored in

idk, just throwing it out there instead of the norm that goes on here

Sure. No issues using those but you need to provide league averages at least so you have some context to compare too. The best thing about TW is they look at weekly matchups of OLvs.DL. Our OL playing Philly's DL is different level than playing the Cards.

But to your point, it's not just individual talent but how those individuals play as a unit. That's where the SME's come in and that's much more difficult to quantify using micro stats.

A perfect example is YAC's post below. As units, both PFF and TW have the Eagles as the #1 OL despite their own (PFF's) micro stats.

I am sure that a majority here would agree that results matter a hell of a lot more than rankings.

Agree, hence in part to why both tier 1 OL's are a combined 15-3 record so far.

If you actually agreed you wouldn't be still spewing this tier 1 crap. And your post makes it seem like O line's are now credited for wins and losses. Which is ridiculous.

No, TW tiers typically follow W's all the way through the playoffs and Superbowl wins. If your mirco stats did that, I'd be all over those instead.

If that were true than the 49ers would be a .500 or below team according to those SME's rankings.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

individual talent evaluation isn't a measuring stick between OLs, there's flaws in that like Draft scouting

What about actual play behind that line:
QB hits
Sacks given up
INTs
QB Performance

some brought up pressure, but Pressure % doesn't tell the entire story unless TTT is factored in

idk, just throwing it out there instead of the norm that goes on here

Sure. No issues using those but you need to provide league averages at least so you have some context to compare too. The best thing about TW is they look at weekly matchups of OLvs.DL. Our OL playing Philly's DL is different level than playing the Cards.

But to your point, it's not just individual talent but how those individuals play as a unit. That's where the SME's come in and that's much more difficult to quantify using micro stats.

A perfect example is YAC's post below. As units, both PFF and TW have the Eagles as the #1 OL despite their own (PFF's) micro stats.

I am sure that a majority here would agree that results matter a hell of a lot more than rankings.

Agree, hence in part to why both tier 1 OL's are a combined 15-3 record so far.

If you actually agreed you wouldn't be still spewing this tier 1 crap. And your post makes it seem like O line's are now credited for wins and losses. Which is ridiculous.

No, TW tiers typically follow W's all the way through the playoffs and Superbowl wins. If your mirco stats did that, I'd be all over those instead.

If that were true than the 49ers would be a .500 or below team according to those SME's rankings.

Nah, a Solid/Average Tier 4 (of 6) OL, you can win with and scheme around like Kyle does annually. But there's only so far you can go with that.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
again that is opinions and rankings, which don't tell the entire story. less the a % point can seperate 10 teams in certain categories.

data/Film... if you want to go by pressure, Brock had the most time to throw this past weekend (Yac stats). Brock likes to go deep and holds it a little longer. Holding the ball longer is going to get pressure. it doesn't mean brock was running for his life on every play or the game would have a different outcome.

it's cool if you don't know what separates them from us and go by what the media says. This is the reason why i brought this up to get some real data.. not rankings or media popularity

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
but that is all opinion.

What is the measuring stick to shows they are better. What can be measured to show they are better ?

Dude like every single offensive line statistical data point lol. Our OG are damn near last in the league in PBLK. Our center is ranked 32nd. Colton is the 77th ranked OT overall.

as a unit we rank 22nd in PBWR and Philly is 5th. They're 1st in RBWR. We're like 17th. Brock is pressured a f**k ton and they're plenty of data/film backing it up. Our scheme masks some of it. True pass sets we suck as an offensive line unit.

look I know you love your Niners, we all do…don't be naive about it. We can all call a spade a spade. Acting like Philly's OL is the same as SF's is foolish. I'm not gonna debate that…that's like saying Mac Jones is as good as Joe burrow.

again that is opinions and rankings, which don't tell the entire story. less the a % point can seperate 10 teams in certain categories.

data/Film... if you want to go by pressure, Brock had the most time to throw this past weekend (Yac stats). Brock likes to go deep and holds it a little longer. Holding the ball longer is going to get pressure. it doesn't mean brock was running for his life on every play or the game would have a different outcome.

it's cool if you don't know what separates them from us and go by what the media says. This is the reason why i brought this up to get some real data.. not rankings or media popularity

They are better. Wth are you trying to argue here lol. And Purdy was under pressure a lot this week.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
but that is all opinion.

What is the measuring stick to shows they are better. What can be measured to show they are better ?

Dude like every single offensive line statistical data point lol. Our OG are damn near last in the league in PBLK. Our center is ranked 32nd. Colton is the 77th ranked OT overall.

as a unit we rank 22nd in PBWR and Philly is 5th. They're 1st in RBWR. We're like 17th. Brock is pressured a f**k ton and they're plenty of data/film backing it up. Our scheme masks some of it. True pass sets we suck as an offensive line unit.

look I know you love your Niners, we all do…don't be naive about it. We can all call a spade a spade. Acting like Philly's OL is the same as SF's is foolish. I'm not gonna debate that…that's like saying Mac Jones is as good as Joe burrow.

again that is opinions and rankings, which don't tell the entire story. less the a % point can seperate 10 teams in certain categories.

data/Film... if you want to go by pressure, Brock had the most time to throw this past weekend (Yac stats). Brock likes to go deep and holds it a little longer. Holding the ball longer is going to get pressure. it doesn't mean brock was running for his life on every play or the game would have a different outcome.

it's cool if you don't know what separates them from us and go by what the media says. This is the reason why i brought this up to get some real data.. not rankings or media popularity

They are better. Wth are you trying to argue here lol. And Purdy was under pressure a lot this week.

Dude was pressured on like 50% of his drop backs last week.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
While you call them micro stats, I call them pieces to a puzzle. Because as you put more and more pieces of the puzzle together it paints a more detailed picture.

I have absolutely zero issues with you posting those. My only concern is that you don't add a benchmark so they appear isolated in nature. I like when you do team or league comparisons. But with PFF, you can see their own contradictions from their micro stats to their overall rankings as a unit. There's a big divide there and that should make fans pause some when looking at their mirco stats even if they are a puzzle piece. This appears to be most significant with their OL grades. Other positions, they seem to do a better job of closing that gap.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

individual talent evaluation isn't a measuring stick between OLs, there's flaws in that like Draft scouting

What about actual play behind that line:
QB hits
Sacks given up
INTs
QB Performance

some brought up pressure, but Pressure % doesn't tell the entire story unless TTT is factored in

idk, just throwing it out there instead of the norm that goes on here

Sure. No issues using those but you need to provide league averages at least so you have some context to compare too. The best thing about TW is they look at weekly matchups of OLvs.DL. Our OL playing Philly's DL is different level than playing the Cards.

But to your point, it's not just individual talent but how those individuals play as a unit. That's where the SME's come in and that's much more difficult to quantify using micro stats.

A perfect example is YAC's post below. As units, both PFF and TW have the Eagles as the #1 OL despite their own (PFF's) micro stats.

I am sure that a majority here would agree that results matter a hell of a lot more than rankings.

Agree, hence in part to why both tier 1 OL's are a combined 15-3 record so far.

If you actually agreed you wouldn't be still spewing this tier 1 crap. And your post makes it seem like O line's are now credited for wins and losses. Which is ridiculous.

No, TW tiers typically follow W's all the way through the playoffs and Superbowl wins. If your mirco stats did that, I'd be all over those instead.

If that were true than the 49ers would be a .500 or below team according to those SME's rankings.

Nah, a Solid/Average Tier 4 (of 6) OL, you can win with and scheme around like Kyle does annually. But there's only so far you can go with that.

So scheme has no bearing on those top O line's? Just the 49ers? Either O line tiers directly relate to winning and losing or your point is invalid.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

individual talent evaluation isn't a measuring stick between OLs, there's flaws in that like Draft scouting

What about actual play behind that line:
QB hits
Sacks given up
INTs
QB Performance

some brought up pressure, but Pressure % doesn't tell the entire story unless TTT is factored in

idk, just throwing it out there instead of the norm that goes on here

Sure. No issues using those but you need to provide league averages at least so you have some context to compare too. The best thing about TW is they look at weekly matchups of OLvs.DL. Our OL playing Philly's DL is different level than playing the Cards.

But to your point, it's not just individual talent but how those individuals play as a unit. That's where the SME's come in and that's much more difficult to quantify using micro stats.

A perfect example is YAC's post below. As units, both PFF and TW have the Eagles as the #1 OL despite their own (PFF's) micro stats.

I am sure that a majority here would agree that results matter a hell of a lot more than rankings.

Agree, hence in part to why both tier 1 OL's are a combined 15-3 record so far.

If you actually agreed you wouldn't be still spewing this tier 1 crap. And your post makes it seem like O line's are now credited for wins and losses. Which is ridiculous.

No, TW tiers typically follow W's all the way through the playoffs and Superbowl wins. If your mirco stats did that, I'd be all over those instead.

If that were true than the 49ers would be a .500 or below team according to those SME's rankings.

Nah, a Solid/Average Tier 4 (of 6) OL, you can win with and scheme around like Kyle does annually. But there's only so far you can go with that.

So scheme has no bearing on those top O line's? Just the 49ers? Either O line tiers directly relate to winning and losing or your point is invalid.

Tiers are based on actual talent independent of scheme and other factors that can help them.

Originally posted by A-R-S:
Would love a reporter to pose this simple Q to Shanahan and Lynch: over the last 10 years, the average offensive line rank of Super Bowl winners has been #12. Yours is #25, so why the F do you think this is going to work?

Originally posted by YACBros85:
So scheme has no bearing on those top O line's? Just the 49ers? Either O line tiers directly relate to winning and losing or your point is invalid.

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by A-R-S:
Would love a reporter to pose this simple Q to Shanahan and Lynch: over the last 10 years, the average offensive line rank of Super Bowl winners has been #12. Yours is #25, so why the F do you think this is going to work?

because thats a dumb question

with whatever they use to rate us as #25 we have consistently had a top 2-3 offense in terms of yads/play

injuries have been holding us back not OL