49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Why the extreme? Philly has both...

Sure, you can't have everything but no excuses with a QB on a rookie contract. Maybe next year. I feel like I say that alot. Haha

Philly's elite LT is a 7th rd pick and a rugby player. Their elite center was a 6th rd pick. Their current RG is a UDFA.

Exactly. Lots of different ways to achieve a tier 1 OL. It doesn't have to be all high priced FA's.

I mean you wouldn't be very happy if that's how SF built their OL. Let's keep it real.

Oh I've never ever cared about HOW the OL was constructed. I'm all about the final product and meeting the standard. And 7 years later it's still way under standard. I don't care how you get there...just get there.

Get where?

Tier 1...or hell, anything close to it.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

individual talent evaluation isn't a measuring stick between OLs, there's flaws in that like Draft scouting

What about actual play behind that line:
QB hits
Sacks given up
INTs
QB Performance

some brought up pressure, but Pressure % doesn't tell the entire story unless TTT is factored in

idk, just throwing it out there instead of the norm that goes on here

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

individual talent evaluation isn't a measuring stick between OLs, there's flaws in that like Draft scouting

What about actual play behind that line:
QB hits
Sacks given up
INTs
QB Performance

some brought up pressure, but Pressure % doesn't tell the entire story unless TTT is factored in

idk, just throwing it out there instead of the norm that goes on here

Sure. No issues using those but you need to provide league averages at least so you have some context to compare too. The best thing about TW is they look at weekly matchups of OLvs.DL. Our OL playing Philly's DL is different level than playing the Cards.

But to your point, it's not just individual talent but how those individuals play as a unit. That's where the SME's come in and that's much more difficult to quantify using micro stats.

A perfect example is YAC's post below. As units, both PFF and TW have the Eagles as the #1 OL despite their own (PFF's) micro stats.

The perception that the eagles o line is better but the results say otherwise.

YPA rushing
49ers- 4.4
PHI- 4.0

Pressure rate
49ers- 38.3%
PHI- 37.9%

TTT
49ers- 3.15
PHI- 4.09

Scrambles
49ers- 2.1%
PHI- 4.5%

Sack%
49ers- 5.7%
PHI- 6.2%

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

individual talent evaluation isn't a measuring stick between OLs, there's flaws in that like Draft scouting

What about actual play behind that line:
QB hits
Sacks given up
INTs
QB Performance

some brought up pressure, but Pressure % doesn't tell the entire story unless TTT is factored in

idk, just throwing it out there instead of the norm that goes on here

Sure. No issues using those but you need to provide league averages at least so you have some context to compare too. The best thing about TW is they look at weekly matchups of OLvs.DL. Our OL playing Philly's DL is different level than playing the Cards.

But to your point, it's not just individual talent but how those individuals play as a unit. That's where the SME's come in and that's much more difficult to quantify using micro stats.

A perfect example is YAC's post below. As units, both PFF and TW have the Eagles as the #1 OL despite their own (PFF's) micro stats.

I am sure that a majority here would agree that results matter a hell of a lot more than rankings.

While you call them micro stats, I call them pieces to a puzzle. Because as you put more and more pieces of the puzzle together it paints a more detailed picture.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

individual talent evaluation isn't a measuring stick between OLs, there's flaws in that like Draft scouting

What about actual play behind that line:
QB hits
Sacks given up
INTs
QB Performance

some brought up pressure, but Pressure % doesn't tell the entire story unless TTT is factored in

idk, just throwing it out there instead of the norm that goes on here

Sure. No issues using those but you need to provide league averages at least so you have some context to compare too. The best thing about TW is they look at weekly matchups of OLvs.DL. Our OL playing Philly's DL is different level than playing the Cards.

But to your point, it's not just individual talent but how those individuals play as a unit. That's where the SME's come in and that's much more difficult to quantify using micro stats.

A perfect example is YAC's post below. As units, both PFF and TW have the Eagles as the #1 OL despite their own (PFF's) micro stats.

I am sure that a majority here would agree that results matter a hell of a lot more than rankings.

Agree, hence in part to why both tier 1 OL's are a combined 15-3 record so far.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
While you call them micro stats, I call them pieces to a puzzle. Because as you put more and more pieces of the puzzle together it paints a more detailed picture.

I have absolutely zero issues with you posting those. My only concern is that you don't add a benchmark so they appear isolated in nature. I like when you do team or league comparisons. But with PFF, you can see their own contradictions from their micro stats to their overall rankings as a unit. There's a big divide there and that should make fans pause some when looking at their mirco stats even if they are a puzzle piece. This appears to be most significant with their OL grades. Other positions, they seem to do a better job of closing that gap.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

individual talent evaluation isn't a measuring stick between OLs, there's flaws in that like Draft scouting

What about actual play behind that line:
QB hits
Sacks given up
INTs
QB Performance

some brought up pressure, but Pressure % doesn't tell the entire story unless TTT is factored in

idk, just throwing it out there instead of the norm that goes on here

Sure. No issues using those but you need to provide league averages at least so you have some context to compare too. The best thing about TW is they look at weekly matchups of OLvs.DL. Our OL playing Philly's DL is different level than playing the Cards.

But to your point, it's not just individual talent but how those individuals play as a unit. That's where the SME's come in and that's much more difficult to quantify using micro stats.

A perfect example is YAC's post below. As units, both PFF and TW have the Eagles as the #1 OL despite their own (PFF's) micro stats.

I am sure that a majority here would agree that results matter a hell of a lot more than rankings.

Agree, hence in part to why both tier 1 OL's are a combined 15-3 record so far.

If you actually agreed you wouldn't be still spewing this tier 1 crap. And your post makes it seem like O line's are now credited for wins and losses. Which is ridiculous.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

individual talent evaluation isn't a measuring stick between OLs, there's flaws in that like Draft scouting

What about actual play behind that line:
QB hits
Sacks given up
INTs
QB Performance

some brought up pressure, but Pressure % doesn't tell the entire story unless TTT is factored in

idk, just throwing it out there instead of the norm that goes on here

Sure. No issues using those but you need to provide league averages at least so you have some context to compare too. The best thing about TW is they look at weekly matchups of OLvs.DL. Our OL playing Philly's DL is different level than playing the Cards.

But to your point, it's not just individual talent but how those individuals play as a unit. That's where the SME's come in and that's much more difficult to quantify using micro stats.

A perfect example is YAC's post below. As units, both PFF and TW have the Eagles as the #1 OL despite their own (PFF's) micro stats.

I am sure that a majority here would agree that results matter a hell of a lot more than rankings.

Agree, hence in part to why both tier 1 OL's are a combined 15-3 record so far.

If you acrually agreed you wouldn't be still spewing this tier 1 crap.

When actual SME's make these tiers, one should pay close attention despite another platforms micro stats...especially when that same site agrees with them as a tier 1 unit. See the contradiction?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

individual talent evaluation isn't a measuring stick between OLs, there's flaws in that like Draft scouting

What about actual play behind that line:
QB hits
Sacks given up
INTs
QB Performance

some brought up pressure, but Pressure % doesn't tell the entire story unless TTT is factored in

idk, just throwing it out there instead of the norm that goes on here

Sure. No issues using those but you need to provide league averages at least so you have some context to compare too. The best thing about TW is they look at weekly matchups of OLvs.DL. Our OL playing Philly's DL is different level than playing the Cards.

But to your point, it's not just individual talent but how those individuals play as a unit. That's where the SME's come in and that's much more difficult to quantify using micro stats.

A perfect example is YAC's post below. As units, both PFF and TW have the Eagles as the #1 OL despite their own (PFF's) micro stats.

I am sure that a majority here would agree that results matter a hell of a lot more than rankings.

Agree, hence in part to why both tier 1 OL's are a combined 15-3 record so far.

If you acrually agreed you wouldn't be still spewing this tier 1 crap.

When actual SME's make these tiers, one should pay close attention despite another platforms micro stats...especially when that same site agrees with them as a tier 1 unit. See the contradiction?

IDGAF about rankings. Just results.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice to see some quality talk in here again. Well done fellas.

Would like your input on what can be used to measure how far the gap between philly vs 9ers OL

and please, since you're a self proclaimed SME.. no "trust me bro" posts

You don't need to trust me, my friend. I gave you a great source to learn from and follow. You'd learn a ton by simply following him/them on X. They spotlight individual players, technique, unit sync, unit PP, RB, zone, power, gap, etc. BT actually covers us a lot too (good and bad).

So you don't have a way measure the gap. I don't need to learn technique. Just show how they distance themselves from us

I'm sure there's something out there

There is but you'd have to pay for it. TrenchWarfare has several advanced metrics specific to OL play but when it comes to tiers, that's a collection of talent, proven successful, expected future results, advanced stats through scout's eyes, etc.

Ultimately what sets them apart from us is talent level, and consistency and predictability over time and the ability to play up to the highest levels of competition when it matters most. Even tier 1 OL/DL are going to have their down stretches like our DL just did for several weeks. But its still a tier 1 DL.

individual talent evaluation isn't a measuring stick between OLs, there's flaws in that like Draft scouting

What about actual play behind that line:
QB hits
Sacks given up
INTs
QB Performance

some brought up pressure, but Pressure % doesn't tell the entire story unless TTT is factored in

idk, just throwing it out there instead of the norm that goes on here

Sure. No issues using those but you need to provide league averages at least so you have some context to compare too. The best thing about TW is they look at weekly matchups of OLvs.DL. Our OL playing Philly's DL is different level than playing the Cards.

But to your point, it's not just individual talent but how those individuals play as a unit. That's where the SME's come in and that's much more difficult to quantify using micro stats.

A perfect example is YAC's post below. As units, both PFF and TW have the Eagles as the #1 OL despite their own (PFF's) micro stats.

I am sure that a majority here would agree that results matter a hell of a lot more than rankings.

Agree, hence in part to why both tier 1 OL's are a combined 15-3 record so far.

If you actually agreed you wouldn't be still spewing this tier 1 crap. And your post makes it seem like O line's are now credited for wins and losses. Which is ridiculous.

No, TW tiers typically follow W's all the way through the playoffs and Superbowl wins. If your mirco stats did that, I'd be all over those instead.