So does anyone know which type of offense we are going to run?

Originally posted by susweel:
Honestly that sounds like a terrible plan or lack of one. Coaches should have a clear cut vision of what they wonna run and get players to fit that vision. Of course you may have to do some tinkering based on personnel but at least have a vision.

"...get players to fit that vision." Really? They already have their players. If they want to implement a "clear cut vision" with different players, it might take a while. Much smarter in the short term to take the players you have and figure out ways to help them be successful.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by thl408:
I don't think the coaches know either. They said they were going to evaluate each player on an individual basis, then tailor the offense to the strength of the roster. My guess is that it will involve establishing the run first, then using playaction to get simpler reads downfield off of that. I think it was Tomsula who said that the coaches were not going to bring playbooks to their first meetings. Just look at the players first, then work together to determine what kind of offense best suits their abilities. Sounds great, but lots of ideas sound great at first. We'll just have to wait and see.

Honestly that sounds like a terrible plan or lack of one. Coaches should have a clear cut vision of what they wonna run and get players to fit that vision. Of course you may have to do some tinkering based on personnel but at least have a vision.

Nothing wrong with being flexible and confidence in their coaching ability to implement something that will fit their changing personnel.

I know what sus means here (or at least I think I do). I'm the same way: philosophy/vision > scheme > coaches within both > proper personnel > execution

My guess is that we're making more of a transition to a more pure WCO from now on. That will be our foundation...now, will it be run to set up play action passing or more controlled passing to set up running in the second halfs of games? Either way, the WCO foundation is flexible enough for either although I'd prefer the latter.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by thl408:
I don't think the coaches know either. They said they were going to evaluate each player on an individual basis, then tailor the offense to the strength of the roster. My guess is that it will involve establishing the run first, then using playaction to get simpler reads downfield off of that. I think it was Tomsula who said that the coaches were not going to bring playbooks to their first meetings. Just look at the players first, then work together to determine what kind of offense best suits their abilities. Sounds great, but lots of ideas sound great at first. We'll just have to wait and see.

Honestly that sounds like a terrible plan or lack of one. Coaches should have a clear cut vision of what they wonna run and get players to fit that vision. Of course you may have to do some tinkering based on personnel but at least have a vision.

Nothing wrong with being flexible and confidence in their coaching ability to implement something that will fit their changing personnel.

I know what sus means here (or at least I think I do). I'm the same way: philosophy/vision > scheme > coaches within both > proper personnel > execution

My guess is that we're making more of a transition to a more pure WCO from now on. That will be our foundation...now, will it be run to set up play action passing or more controlled passing to set up running in the second halfs of games. Either way, the WCO foundation can go either way although I'd prefer the latter.

Personally I dont think we are going WCO I think we are going more spread and read option offense. We just guessing at this point but thats what I see happening.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by thl408:
I don't think the coaches know either. They said they were going to evaluate each player on an individual basis, then tailor the offense to the strength of the roster. My guess is that it will involve establishing the run first, then using playaction to get simpler reads downfield off of that. I think it was Tomsula who said that the coaches were not going to bring playbooks to their first meetings. Just look at the players first, then work together to determine what kind of offense best suits their abilities. Sounds great, but lots of ideas sound great at first. We'll just have to wait and see.

Honestly that sounds like a terrible plan or lack of one. Coaches should have a clear cut vision of what they wonna run and get players to fit that vision. Of course you may have to do some tinkering based on personnel but at least have a vision.

Nothing wrong with being flexible and confidence in their coaching ability to implement something that will fit their changing personnel.

I know what sus means here (or at least I think I do). I'm the same way: philosophy/vision > scheme > coaches within both > proper personnel > execution

My guess is that we're making more of a transition to a more pure WCO from now on. That will be our foundation...now, will it be run to set up play action passing or more controlled passing to set up running in the second halfs of games? Either way, the WCO foundation is flexible enough for either although I'd prefer the latter.

Everyone likes to throw that WCO term around like it's going out of style. Every team in the NFL now incorporates and builds on WCO concepts. Referencing Jed York's comments on last years squad not sticking to the teams core competencies, it leads me to believe that senior managements vision is one which focuses on power running, stretch passes, etc.

Originally posted by susweel:
Personally I dont think we are going WCO I think we are going more spread and read option offense. We just guessing at this point but thats what I see happening.

As our foundation? Damn, I hope not! We saw how we ran the spread last year and CK may not last 8 games if he's running the RO as a primary play.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by susweel:
Personally I dont think we are going WCO I think we are going more spread and read option offense. We just guessing at this point but thats what I see happening.

As our foundation? Damn, I hope not! We saw how we ran the spread last year and CK may not last 8 games if he's running the RO as a primary play.

Jed says they gonna use his legs.

Originally posted by bzborow1:
Everyone likes to throw that WCO term around like it's going out of style. Every team in the NFL now incorporates and builds on WCO concepts. Referencing Jed York's comments on last years squad not sticking to the teams core competencies, it leads me to believe that senior managements vision is one which focuses on power running, stretch passes, etc.

Agreed, it's an overused term. In fact, it's still IN style though. GB probably runs the best version of it esp. now that they've balanced it better with a running game. Many teams run WCO designs/plays but very few run WCO principles and the WCO as it's foundation/teachings. Last year we were a "hodge podge" offense...about 13 different offenses rolled up into 1. I think with Logan's background, Geep, etc. there will be more of a focus on actual WCO principles more...more of that foundation, That said, we're all just speculating so it's just my guestimate. Why bring in a WCO QB coach if you're going to run your QB from shotgun on every snap? But we'll see...

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by susweel:
Personally I dont think we are going WCO I think we are going more spread and read option offense. We just guessing at this point but thats what I see happening.

As our foundation? Damn, I hope not! We saw how we ran the spread last year and CK may not last 8 games if he's running the RO as a primary play.

Jed says they gonna use his legs.

I'm sure they'll allow him to read - read - run and some designed QB keepers/RO but my God, if they are going full college here (Spread+RO), we're dead! LOL

The score more points then the other team offense

No matter what it is the pessimist 49er fan will not be happy.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by susweel:
Personally I dont think we are going WCO I think we are going more spread and read option offense. We just guessing at this point but thats what I see happening.

As our foundation? Damn, I hope not! We saw how we ran the spread last year and CK may not last 8 games if he's running the RO as a primary play.

Jed says they gonna use his legs.

... or at least the threat of his legs. The impact he has on the backside of a zone read play is crazy. It's like he's blocking 2-3 guys per play. If he gave 80-90% of the time, he could benefit the RBs tremendously and grant advantageous blocking angles to several linemen, all the while lulling the defense into the sense that he's never gonna pull the ball and torch them on the backside of the play, AND THEN HE DOES IT. Honestly, adding sme 2 route ZR PA concepts into the offense could be terribly stressful on a defense.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by susweel:

Personally I dont think we are going WCO I think we are going more spread and read option offense. We just guessing at this point but thats what I see happening.

As our foundation? Damn, I hope not! We saw how we ran the spread last year and CK may not last 8 games if he's running the RO as a primary play.

Jed says they gonna use his legs.

I'm sure they'll allow him to read - read - run and some designed QB keepers/RO but my God, if they are going full college here (Spread+RO), we're dead! LOL

If I had to guess, the reason for the promotion of Geep was so that an entire new offense install wasn't needed. As much as some don't want to believe, our offense under Harbs had all the tried and true WCO concepts in the passing game (exception being not able to properly execute a f**king screen pass) and had an almost gibbs style coryell run game. The issue was the time and place these plays where called. The where way to reliant on first down run and never really exploited this lean by getting explosive plays out of the Playaction game on first down.

Again it's all speculation, but I think the offense will look aesthetically similar to the Harbs offenses (formation wise), however I think the charge from the top is to eliminate the leans/tells that crept in to the offense and offer a system that allows kap to play more untearthered and free. The influx of speed (smith and bush) should help get this accomplished. However, the single biggest factor in this offense improving lies on Kap. He just needs to keep improving.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

... or at least the threat of his legs. The impact he has on the backside of a zone read play is crazy. It's like he's blocking 2-3 guys per play. If he gave 80-90% of the time, he could benefit the RBs tremendously and grant advantageous blocking angles to several linemen, all the while lulling the defense into the sense that he's never gonna pull the ball and torch them on the backside of the play, AND THEN HE DOES IT. Honestly, adding sme 2 route ZR PA concepts into the offense could be terribly stressful on a defense.

Exactly...could you imagine the down field windows kap would get based on the stress he puts on the backside. If they don't keep track then its Steve vs Dallas in '94 time and bootleg the hell out of them.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
... or at least the threat of his legs. The impact he has on the backside of a zone read play is crazy. It's like he's blocking 2-3 guys per play. If he gave 80-90% of the time, he could benefit the RBs tremendously and grant advantageous blocking angles to several linemen, all the while lulling the defense into the sense that he's never gonna pull the ball and torch them on the backside of the play, AND THEN HE DOES IT. Honestly, adding sme 2 route ZR PA concepts into the offense could be terribly stressful on a defense.

Exactly...could you imagine the down field windows kap would get based on the stress he puts on the backside. If they don't keep track then if Steve vs Dallas in '94 time and bootleg the hell out of them.

Ohhhhh those were genius play calls. Let the Elephant rush up field only to look back and see Young sprinting through his vacated hole for huge gains. Seattle did something similar to us last game...invited the pass rush (TE Wilson blocking) and the last second, Wilson would release out into the flat and Russell would lob a pass over Brooks/Lynch/Aldon for huge gains. Killed us. Simple. I'm hoping for this type of awareness built into game plans.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
... or at least the threat of his legs. The impact he has on the backside of a zone read play is crazy. It's like he's blocking 2-3 guys per play. If he gave 80-90% of the time, he could benefit the RBs tremendously and grant advantageous blocking angles to several linemen, all the while lulling the defense into the sense that he's never gonna pull the ball and torch them on the backside of the play, AND THEN HE DOES IT. Honestly, adding sme 2 route ZR PA concepts into the offense could be terribly stressful on a defense.

Exactly...could you imagine the down field windows kap would get based on the stress he puts on the backside. If they don't keep track then if Steve vs Dallas in '94 time and bootleg the hell out of them.

Just wished we would invest in a better back up qb just in case.