Offseason All22 Film Study

Boy the play you illustrated in #25 looks a lot like this one:



I wonder why that is? BTW this play is from the 1994 niners PB.

Heh. Kubiak using what works and is timeless.

Originally posted by thl408:

Heh. Kubiak using what works and is timeless.

Pretty much the only visible changes are in formations. Instead of horizontal stacked backfields, he now prefers variations of the I formations. Eventho, the above formation is a strong I.

how is torrey smith and getting catches at the peak of his jump ie jump balls in the end zone?

THL, why do you suppose the team insists on playing Boone at G and Davis at T? Davis is a good T. But the better passrushers can get to him. Dominant run blocker. 6'5 - nice height for a G. Boone is great on the edge every time he lines up there. Sometimes gets beat inside with leverage though being he's 6'9 (perfect for a T).

So what gives there? Davis even gets paid a reasonable price for an elite G, unlike a lot of others.

Nice effort doing this though. Torrey Smith is going to have a huge impact on this offense. I don't expect this team to fall off a cliff like many do. If we free Colin to run more and he continues to develop his pocket skills the sky is the limit for this offense. Just need to improve the depth along the OL and find a suitable replacement for Iupati - hopefully someone who can pass block a bit too.

Best thread ever returns

Do you think Ellington may be a good target on intermediate routes that might be opened up by TS running deep routes?

So, in regards to how TS can open things up for VD - I went back and looked at a few things when Moss was here, as he was our last deep threat than any gave a crap about and looked at how it opened things up for us - it's how I believe things will open up with the addition of Smith.



This is a "Z speedo" concept. Very, very similar to the play diagramed above, except that Moss runs more of a deep post and Vernon is playing the "Z" receiver with Walker playing the "Y".



The PA fake draw the LB's up, which is what allows VD to get behind the defenders. The Packers are playing cover 3 zone(you can't see the deep safety in this pic.


After the PA the strongside corner tries to identify his deep threat - he finds Moss on the other side of the field.


The corner bails out to try and make sure Moss can't come open on his deep crosser/post route. VD is now behind the LB's who have their eyes on the QB.

With the corner bailing and Miller's route taking the flat, it opens up a huge hole in the defense.


Big gain to VD for 29 yards - using the same Speedo concept instituted by Bill Walsh....

Wait....Greg Roman actually ran WCO plays - like the same ones Kubiak did?..... weird......(insert sarcasm here)

Originally posted by thl408:
The uncertainty is how Geep plans to use TS since we know nothing about Geep. BAL almost always had TS and Steve Smith on opposite sides of the field, even in 3WR sets. They chose to force the safety(s) to defend the width of the deep portion of the field. Flacco took shots to whichever side he felt was a better matchup by targeting Torrey or Steve deep down the sidelines. Would the 49ers do that, or use TS and Boldin on the same side of the field where TS clears the deep defenders and Boldin can work directly underneath.

In the 49ers 3WR sets, who is the 3rd WR and will Boldin man the slot or be the other wideout? It will be interesting to see. To the point of how Torrey will open up other routes, here are a couple examples of BAL using a variation of Sail, a concept that the 49ers used many times to bust cover3 shells (3 deep defenders with zone coverage underneath).

I wonder if we should look back at the Superbowl to see how the Ravens used TS and Boldin.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

So, in regards to how TS can open things up for VD - I went back and looked at a few things when Moss was here, as he was our last deep threat than any gave a crap about and looked at how it opened things up for us - it's how I believe things will open up with the addition of Smith.



This is a "Z speedo" concept. Very, very similar to the play diagramed above, except that Moss runs more of a deep post and Vernon is playing the "Z" receiver with Walker playing the "Y".



The PA fake draw the LB's up, which is what allows VD to get behind the defenders. The Packers are playing cover 3 zone(you can't see the deep safety in this pic.


After the PA the strongside corner tries to identify his deep threat - he finds Moss on the other side of the field.


The corner bails out to try and make sure Moss can't come open on his deep crosser/post route. VD is now behind the LB's who have their eyes on the QB.

With the corner bailing and Miller's route taking the flat, it opens up a huge hole in the defense.


Big gain to VD for 29 yards - using the same Speedo concept instituted by Bill Walsh....

Wait....Greg Roman actually ran WCO plays - like the same ones Kubiak did?..... weird......(insert sarcasm here)

Originally posted by 49erphan:
Do you think Ellington may be a good target on intermediate routes that might be opened up by TS running deep routes?

Based off how we used Moss - I would say Boldin more than Ellington. Ellington plays the same position as TS, They're both the "X" type receivers - the ones on the weakside or opposite the TE. The reason you want your speed guy and deep threat guy playing more in the "X" role is because that's the guy who will get single coverage more than anyone else, so he's the one you want to isolate. If your "X" can defeat single coverage all day(like Torrey can most of the time, or Rice did, or Moss, megatron) than it forces the other team to go to a cover 2-man more often. This is what all the guys who talk about having a receiver that can, "make a team go cover-2" mean. They're not meaning cover 2 zone, but cover 2 man. When a receiver can win his isolation almost every time because he can threaten ANY route(not just deep coverage, more often, they can take underneath routes all day and still have the ability to hit that deep ball if the corner plays underneath) than the other team has to have the man coverage guy play and underneath technique with safety help over the top. This opens up that the defense either has to leave single man coverage with NO help on the strong side - where the other team can run pick/rub plays all day long, or remove a defender from the box to open up the run.

This is why a true "X" receiver is so important to an offense. It's not just having a deep threat, it's having a true "X" receiver. We had 3 "Z" receivers last year - really.

A case in point was the last game that Jerry Rice played for the 49ers. The reason TO got so many balls that day was because TO played the "Z" and Rice the "X". Chicago ran cover 2 man/ cover 2 soft(or sink for you Madden players) all day to double Jerry, which freed up the concept side.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Based off how we used Moss - I would say Boldin more than Ellington. Ellington plays the same position as TS, They're both the "X" type receivers - the ones on the weakside or opposite the TE. The reason you want your speed guy and deep threat guy playing more in the "X" role is because that's the guy who will get single coverage more than anyone else, so he's the one you want to isolate. If your "X" can defeat single coverage all day(like Torrey can most of the time, or Rice did, or Moss, megatron) than it forces the other team to go to a cover 2-man more often. This is what all the guys who talk about having a receiver that can, "make a team go cover-2" mean. They're not meaning cover 2 zone, but cover 2 man. When a receiver can win his isolation almost every time because he can threaten ANY route(not just deep coverage, more often, they can take underneath routes all day and still have the ability to hit that deep ball if the corner plays underneath) than the other team has to have the man coverage guy play and underneath technique with safety help over the top. This opens up that the defense either has to leave single man coverage with NO help on the strong side - where the other team can run pick/rub plays all day long, or remove a defender from the box to open up the run.

This is why a true "X" receiver is so important to an offense. It's not just having a deep threat, it's having a true "X" receiver. We had 3 "Z" receivers last year - really.

A case in point was the last game that Jerry Rice played for the 49ers. The reason TO got so many balls that day was because TO played the "Z" and Rice the "X". Chicago ran cover 2 man/ cover 2 soft(or sink for you Madden players) all day to double Jerry, which freed up the concept side.

That's a great point about TS being a true SE or "X". As we've seen Kap does have a propensity to favor the backside in 3x1 sets at the expense of the conceptside. Having a true SE that can defeat coverage and has shown great ball skills allows this situation to be more of a win than it has in the past. If you can occupy that safety on the backside and no allow him to roll coverage to the concept side, then that's the ultimate win.

Originally posted by kujon11:
how is torrey smith and getting catches at the peak of his jump ie jump balls in the end zone?

I did not see him used in that capacity with BAL last season. Nearly all of his TD catches last season, that were not deep bombs, came on slants (or skinny posts). So I don't know how he does in a jump ball scenario in the end zone. He's "only" 6'0, so he doesn't have an imposing body frame. He fights off contact more so with his hands/arms than using his body to shield.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
So, in regards to how TS can open things up for VD - I went back and looked at a few things when Moss was here, as he was our last deep threat than any gave a crap about and looked at how it opened things up for us - it's how I believe things will open up with the addition of Smith.



This is a "Z speedo" concept. Very, very similar to the play diagramed above, except that Moss runs more of a deep post and Vernon is playing the "Z" receiver with Walker playing the "Y".



The PA fake draw the LB's up, which is what allows VD to get behind the defenders. The Packers are playing cover 3 zone(you can't see the deep safety in this pic.


After the PA the strongside corner tries to identify his deep threat - he finds Moss on the other side of the field.


The corner bails out to try and make sure Moss can't come open on his deep crosser/post route. VD is now behind the LB's who have their eyes on the QB.

With the corner bailing and Miller's route taking the flat, it opens up a huge hole in the defense.


Big gain to VD for 29 yards - using the same Speedo concept instituted by Bill Walsh....

Wait....Greg Roman actually ran WCO plays - like the same ones Kubiak did?..... weird......(insert sarcasm here)

I don't recall Moss catching many deep bombs from either ASmith or Kap that season. In 2012, he opened up space for the 49ers on sheer reputation as a deep threat. I'm sure GB has a lot of film of Moss burning Packer CBs from his days as a Viking. Nice illustration of the attention Moss commanded. VD has never been more open.

What I'm wary of is if Torrey doesn't put up production numbers that warrant his $8 salary, fans will blast the signing and the money he got. Perhaps saying that he is paid like a #1 so why isn't he putting up those type of numbers. Half joking, but there should be an "Assist" statistic for WRs.

Originally posted by thl408:

I don't recall Moss catching many deep bombs from either ASmith or Kap that season. In 2012, he opened up space for the 49ers on sheer reputation as a deep threat. I'm sure GB has a lot of film of Moss burning Packer CBs from his days as a Viking. Nice illustration of the attention Moss commanded. VD has never been more open.

What I'm wary of is if Torrey doesn't put up production numbers that warrant his $8 salary, fans will blast the signing and the money he got. Perhaps saying that he is paid like a #1 so why isn't he putting up those type of numbers. Half joking, but there should be an "Assist" statistic for WRs.

I think TS production has to be judged on ypc. If he continues to keep it in the 16-17 yards per catch range that justifies his salary iny mind, because both boldin's and VDs production should be positively impacted because his presence.