Zone blocking scheme

bring back the leg whips!

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Ok guys, I think I've cracked the code at least how action passes were regarded in the original WCO. There needs to be an addition to the waggle and Boot definitions. These action passes are based on a run play fake.

The following are not: Sprint, Dash and Roll. These passes move the pocket and are not passes on any run action and can or can not have extra blockers

Sprint (has extra blocker, not based on a run play--qb angles away 45 degrees from center)


Dash/Dart (qb drops back before getting outside the pocket)


Roll (qb rolls out of the pocket to break it)

I think the 49ers run Dart/Dash a lot. It's when Kap drops back, Boone/Iupati gives up inside pressure, and Kap has to roll out.

I think this is Sprint. 45 degree rollout with no playaction.


I will add Sprint to the Concepts thread as there is indeed a distinction to be made for a rollout without playaction. The Catch is not a Waggle as I have stated earlier. It's a Sprint (duh, "sprint option right"). We may be steering this thread far from ZBS so I'll stop here. Thanks again for the info!

The difference between this play and the other sprints outlined above is there aren't any other options on it. Either Boldin is open off of the pick or he isn't.

The plays shown there are actual what are called dash/dart action plays. Sprint action is a little different. The play in the gif is sprint rt option ran out of an empty gun set. There are actually two option on it but number 2 is way late and for that reason that's what made what joe did in the 1981 conference title game so special.

Here is sprint rt option from the 1982 playbook:

The only difference between this play and the one in the gif from the 2013 Carolina playoff game is the formation. What give away sprint action is the QB taking a 45 degree drop to move the pocket. Also unlike waggles and boots there sprint is not based on a run play fake, it's just an action to move the pocket. This play was about as bread and butter as we had in the dynasty days. The ball probably goes to the first progression 90% of the time, but there is a second option and it's way late in the development of play and since that second option is based on a route that is rubbing the out it can appear to only be a pick.

Again, this is what made the catch so iconic and special, the patience joe showed and the route Dwight ran was very special. In the gif, it appears that Crabtree really got bumped off his route and the DB was really taking away the out portion of the second option. Basically on sprint option, the choice are 1.) slot WR on an out 2.) pick WR on a return/out breaking route (this is tough because that route can be great affected by the DB and 3.) Qb run.

Here are some other sprint action passes(these are from the 1985 playbook):

Notice the 45 degree angle the QB is to make to move the pocket.

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
bring back the leg whips!

Nice one!!!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
bring back the leg whips!

Nice one!!!

Isn't that a 15 yard penalty these days?

Normally tho, this famous SPRINT RIGHT OPTION's initial target is a fast WR so that he can turn the corner..

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
bring back the leg whips!

Nice one!!!

Isn't that a 15 yard penalty these days?

No, only if you dive at the knees with intention of destroying a career...ala J.R. Sleazy!

Actually, I'm sure leg whipping is a penalty as well.

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, only if you dive at the knees with intention of destroying a career...ala J.R. Sleazy!

Actually, I'm sure leg whipping is a penalty as well.

Ah yes. Sleazy - they guy they're going to have to pay top guard money to keep..... bwahahahaha.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, only if you dive at the knees with intention of destroying a career...ala J.R. Sleazy!

Actually, I'm sure leg whipping is a penalty as well.

Ah yes. Sleazy - they guy they're going to have to pay top guard money to keep..... bwahahahaha.

He's worth the $. He's guaranteed to take out at least 2 key 49ers a year.

Originally posted by 9moon:

Normally tho, this famous SPRINT RIGHT OPTION's initial target is a fast WR so that he can turn the corner..

Well, how fast was Freddie Solomon...was he a burner? Because the niners first td in the 1981 title game came off of the same play, but the first progression was the target.

Originally posted by Niners816:
Well, how fast was Freddie Solomon...was he a burner? Because the niners first td in the 1981 title game came off of the same play, but the first progression was the target.

Fred Solomon, God rest his soul, was a serious speed burner coming out of college, but he lost a couple steps by the mid-80's.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Well, how fast was Freddie Solomon...was he a burner? Because the niners first td in the 1981 title game came off of the same play, but the first progression was the target.

Fred Solomon, God rest his soul, was a serious speed burner coming out of college, but he lost a couple steps by the mid-80's.

Sprint option does a pretty good job of scheming that intial read open. I agree that having a burner can really aid in RAC yardage, but Boldin has made some really big 3rd down conversions on this play in his time with us and he's the exact opposite of a burner. The previous staff seemed to favor sprint option as a third and short play. Maybe we will see Torry smith/Ellington running as the slot guy to get some more RAC yards.

I apologize for kinda derailing the ZBS thread.

Originally posted by Niners816:
Sprint option does a pretty good job of scheming that intial read open. I agree that having a burner can really aid in RAC yardage, but Boldin has made some really big 3rd down conversions on this play in his time with us and he's the exact opposite of a burner. The previous staff seemed to favor sprint option as a third and short play. Maybe we will see Torry smith/Ellington running as the slot guy to get some more RAC yards.

I apologize for kinda derailing the ZBS thread.

Ellington would be cool.

ZBS is more thoughtful than sheer power blocking and so I believe it keeps the OL mentally in the game. Also requires OL who can adjust and are vigilant. No more looking right while the D runs off your left shoulder! ZBS won't solve the pass blocking woes, but better coaching with more emphasis on keeping the QB clean will. It would be good to have the OL stop saying they are a running line or power line...they should be an everything line...all equal needs for passing and running.

Here's a pod cast from Niner Nation - a bit long IMO

http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/7/3/8888695/better-rivals-podcast-the-49ers-and-the-zone-blocking-scheme

Thoughts??

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Here's a pod cast from Niner Nation - a bit long IMO

http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/7/3/8888695/better-rivals-podcast-the-49ers-and-the-zone-blocking-scheme

Thoughts??

Yeah I just listened to this the other day. Thought it was interesting 32 of Carlos Hydes runs were gap scheme and he averaged 3.0 yards per carry. 51 of his runs were zone scheme and he averaged 4.8 ypc. Almost 2 more ypc, clearly in line with most people's thinking he's better in a zone scheme.