NY Giants coaches film analysis

I don't know if my opinion will mean anything to anyone but here are my thoughts on Kap and on coach Greg Roman...

With regards to Kap and leadership: I do agree somewhat with what Jonnydel said regarding Kap and his leadership. I have myself at times wished that he would become the guy who would get upset and demand perfection from his teammates when they make mistakes and rally them when they seem to be down but I also know that for all my wishes it just isn't Kap's personality to be that way. He isn't the guy who is going to yell as his O-line on the sidelines when they give up 8 sacks, he's the guy that is going to brush it off and say he needs to do his job better and that the team as a whole needs to execute better. He isn't the guy that is going to get mad at his receivers for dropping 8 passes in a game, he's the guy who's going to justify their dropped passes by saying they have tough jobs to make catches against good coverage and so drops are going to happen and that he needs to throw better passes. Kap isn't the guy that is going to criticize those who aren't perfect around him because in his mind he has never been perfect, he makes mistakes, so he has no business criticizing his teammates for making mistakes when he does so himself. Kap also isn't Patrick Willis, he isn't the giving good speeches, lead his team into the battlefield type leader, he is the guy who believes that his job is to lead by example. So, he shows up early everyday and stays late to set an example. He puts a tremendous amount of time into his preparation because that to him is important to performing well. Kap isn't the critical, talkative leader type and I've come to respect that about him. He has his own way of leading and so long as his teammates respect him and listen to him that is fine by me. I know that if Kap says something those around him on offense will listen, as Boone said before: "Kap says go out there and block correctly, 'We say yes boss' and we go out there and block correctly".

I don't think that the offense needs better leadership, Kap's been the same leader since he got the job and the offense had no problem scoring when he first got the job and they didn't really have the problems they are facing now in terms of scoring last year. I think what the offense needs as a whole is better execution from the players. For me, that is what it really all boils down to for the most part; lack of execution has led to what can currently be viewed as an inept offense. I don't know that I blame the coaching staff as much as others seem to, because really when I watch the film I generally see good play calls and terrible mistakes in execution. It's why so many games this season are often a tale of two halves. One that consists of an efficient offense and one that consists of an inept offense. Did the coaches all of a sudden toss out all that was working and completely change the game plan? No. The players just failed to execute to the levels they did in the first half. Take the Saints game as an example. The 49ers scored 21 points in the first half and failed to really score anything in the second half and in OT, Did the coaches go away from what was working? Not really, but the plays that were well executed in the first half were not well executed in the second. Receivers started dropping passes, people missed blocks in the running game, and things like that. A coach can dial up the best play to beat a defensive scheme but if the players fail to execute that play, it simply won't work. A prime example of that is a read option play that Roman called against the Giants. The Seahawks gave the Giants fits with the Read option the week before so Roman dialed one up in the red zone and it was a great play and it would have netted a TD had Stevie executed his block correctly. Stevie didn't block correctly and the play was blown up for a 7 yard loss. From the outside, your asking what kind of a play call was that? But when you watch the film, it wasn't a bad call at all, and had each player executed it like they did in practice it would have netted a TD.

I don't believe that Roman is totally without fault because I will admit that I hated his game plan against the Rams when the O-line gave up 8 sacks. But to his credit, he called a great game against the Saints the following week and he put his O-line and QB in a position to succeed. I believe overall this year he truly has had good game plans and that is why the team overall doesn't struggle to move the ball. They move the ball either with the passing game or with the running or both each week for the most part. The problem is the red zone and that is where execution to the highest level is necessary and right now our players aren't really doing that. Some play calls may be bad at times but I refuse to believe that every play call that the players are given in the red zone doesn't allow for them to succeed and thus they are the 31st ranked team in the red zone. I will blame the OC for most of the problems when I see that our players are no longer blowing up great play designs with terrible execution. When everyone is doing there job almost to perfection and the team is still unable to field a decent offense I will then blame the OC. Until then, in my opinion players just need to execute better.

Just my opinion !

I, for one, thank you johnny del and thl408 for your hard work. My recommendation is for you to present your thoughts and allow the zone to do its normal thing. There is no way possible of satisfying all of the points of view. It would be interesting to get Baalke's perspective on all of our concerns and get his opinion of whether it is a coaching philosophy, or if the players are suffering burnout or what, or if it is Harbaughs loyalty issues with his coaches that deters from total accountability. So until then we all get to speculate as to what the think is actually happening. All we know for sure is that our offense is out of sync and is not living up to its potential. And yet with all of that we are 6 and 4, should be 8 and 2, but it is what it is.

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
I'm not saying that Kap has been outstanding but the problems with this offense are not that easy to fix

This.

If it was easy it would have been done already.

I wish I could listen in when JH/Trent/Roman review the game tape.

How can Roman even show up and how can JH the Enabler continue to accept this???

COMMON MAN! Zero TD's in the 4th quarter. Zero TD's off of 5 interceptions.

Thl408 and johnydell I look forward to your weekly cut ups more than anything else on this site. Since WhoamI got busted, you guys are IT for a crazed fan like myself. Please keep it up!

Originally posted by thl408:
I'm not done watching the game, but I wanted to show this play. Sorry gentlemen, but it's a play that won't make anyone happy. It's a good read/throw by Kap as well as a good playcall/design.

For 49AlltheTime: The play before this was the SJ holding call on the VD run.

49ers: SJ + Crabs are running the 'Sucker concept'. SJ's curl is designed to draw up the orange defender while Crabs attacks the area behind. Should the orange defender sag and gain depth to cover Crabs, SJ is open. It's a vertical stretch on the orange defender and works against cover3 or cover2.
NYG: tampa2


Notice the MLB gaining depth (the defender on the 23 yard line). It's tampa2. Sj has curled his route and the orange defender sticks to SJ. Crabs is about to enter his cut.


Kap is mid windup. Crabs is not yet open, but Kap knows he will be once he breaks behind the orange defender. The window will be there.


Crabs just caught the ball.


+12 yards. This is one of the areas I'd like to see Kap improve on and show more consistency. Throwing into open areas of zone coverage because he understands what is about to become open based on the routes being run versus the coverage he is seeing.

Not a huge fan of this design. I love the anticipation throw like you noted thl but to me, it looks like 4 TE's all running the same distance-routes and dropping down in a soft hole...all 2-3 yards from each other. If one isn't open, will the others? It doesn't look too challenging to defend either (although the Giants look like keystone cops there)making that window even smaller to throw in to. It looks like Boldin is the best option inside at the top too.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Not a huge fan of this design. I love the anticipation throw like you noted thl but to me, it looks like 4 TE's all running the same distance-routes and dropping down in a soft hole...all 2-3 yards from each other. If one isn't open, will the others? It doesn't look too challenging to defend either (although the Giants look like keystone cops there)making that window even smaller to throw in to. It looks like Boldin is the best option inside at the top too.

thats what i hate about our plays, because they mostly like this...the either all long, all intermediate or they are crossing short routes,

can we get all routes in one play on a consistent basis !!!

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Not a huge fan of this design. I love the anticipation throw like you noted thl but to me, it looks like 4 TE's all running the same distance-routes and dropping down in a soft hole...all 2-3 yards from each other. If one isn't open, will the others? It doesn't look too challenging to defend either (although the Giants look like keystone cops there)making that window even smaller to throw in to. It looks like Boldin is the best option inside at the top too.

thats what i hate about our plays, because they mostly like this...the either all long, all intermediate or they are crossing short routes,

can we get all routes in one play on a consistent basis !!!

My mom can cover routes like this...don't get me wrong, she's a badass, but you get the idea!

Provide CK with layers of routes, opening up at different times, crossing, etc...more exotic routes that cause confusion and make DB's at least sweat a little.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Not a huge fan of this design. I love the anticipation throw like you noted thl but to me, it looks like 4 TE's all running the same distance-routes and dropping down in a soft hole...all 2-3 yards from each other. If one isn't open, will the others? It doesn't look too challenging to defend either (although the Giants look like keystone cops there)making that window even smaller to throw in to. It looks like Boldin is the best option inside at the top too.

This is a pretty standard concepts that a lot teams run. The place to concentrate is on the curl-post aspect. If the defender sags off curl then that's an easy cmpletion. In this case he stayed with SJ so the post/skinny behind it becomes available. Now we added in a flat by gore so this introduces a little horizontal stretch with what is essentially a vertical stretch concept.

As someone mentioned earlier, I also believe crabs TD was on a similar concepts.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Not a huge fan of this design. I love the anticipation throw like you noted thl but to me, it looks like 4 TE's all running the same distance-routes and dropping down in a soft hole...all 2-3 yards from each other. If one isn't open, will the others? It doesn't look too challenging to defend either (although the Giants look like keystone cops there)making that window even smaller to throw in to. It looks like Boldin is the best option inside at the top too.

thats what i hate about our plays, because they mostly like this...the either all long, all intermediate or they are crossing short routes,

can we get all routes in one play on a consistent basis !!!

My mom can cover routes like this...don't get me wrong, she's a badass, but you get the idea!

Provide CK with layers of routes, opening up at different times, crossing, etc...more exotic routes that cause confusion and make DB's at least sweat a little.

When secondaries can run the route for your WRs you know you have issues

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

I'm not done watching the game, but I wanted to show this play. Sorry gentlemen, but it's a play that won't make anyone happy. It's a good read/throw by Kap as well as a good playcall/design.

For 49AlltheTime: The play before this was the SJ holding call on the VD run.

49ers: SJ + Crabs are running the 'Sucker concept'. SJ's curl is designed to draw up the orange defender while Crabs attacks the area behind. Should the orange defender sag and gain depth to cover Crabs, SJ is open. It's a vertical stretch on the orange defender and works against cover3 or cover2.
NYG: tampa2


Notice the MLB gaining depth (the defender on the 23 yard line). It's tampa2. Sj has curled his route and the orange defender sticks to SJ. Crabs is about to enter his cut.


Kap is mid windup. Crabs is not yet open, but Kap knows he will be once he breaks behind the orange defender. The window will be there.


Crabs just caught the ball.


+12 yards. This is one of the areas I'd like to see Kap improve on and show more consistency. Throwing into open areas of zone coverage because he understands what is about to become open based on the routes being run versus the coverage he is seeing.

Not a huge fan of this design. I love the anticipation throw like you noted thl but to me, it looks like 4 TE's all running the same distance-routes and dropping down in a soft hole...all 2-3 yards from each other. If one isn't open, will the others? It doesn't look too challenging to defend either (although the Giants look like keystone cops there)making that window even smaller to throw in to. It looks like Boldin is the best option inside at the top too.

Did something happen over the past few weeks to change your mind regarding this concept? Or is it a better play because Andy Red called it?

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/179857-chiefs-coaches-film-analysis/#post11

Originally posted by GORO:
Jimmy Raye tried! As much as I hate the Offense we are still winning games.

Originally posted by GORO:

Originally posted by awp8912:
Lol, these coaches film threads never criticize Roman or Harbaugh. Always the players and their lack of execution within this feces of a system. Just because the players are struggling in this system doesn't make it any less made out of feces.

Give any other OC and HC this offense and the results will look 100% different.

4 years now going but yeah it's Kap or the O-line or VD or Crabtree.

Jimmy Raye tried! As much as I hate the Offense we are still winning games.

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the 49ers near the top of the league in red zone efficiency prior to Harbaughs hiring. Granted they didn't get there often but they had success

If Johnny says player execution happens more often than play design, then we gotta take his word for it. It's his thread.

Also, if we're constantly going backwards on first down, then, roman needs to be fired. But we all know that.

Kap, at times, does not elevate those around him. Not hitting people in stride, not throwing it away, etc, this has all happened. In this game his accuracy was terrible. I know what you mean by leadership and feel he's still maturing. Just hasn't clicked

I personally think Kap is not provided the right coaching leadership. He's a product of his OC. Altho skipping passes like he was, that was awful. Maybe he's not a fan of his own system?

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
I'm not done watching the game, but I wanted to show this play. Sorry gentlemen, but it's a play that won't make anyone happy. It's a good read/throw by Kap as well as a good playcall/design.

For 49AlltheTime: The play before this was the SJ holding call on the VD run.

49ers: SJ + Crabs are running the 'Sucker concept'. SJ's curl is designed to draw up the orange defender while Crabs attacks the area behind. Should the orange defender sag and gain depth to cover Crabs, SJ is open. It's a vertical stretch on the orange defender and works against cover3 or cover2.
NYG: tampa2


Notice the MLB gaining depth (the defender on the 23 yard line). It's tampa2. Sj has curled his route and the orange defender sticks to SJ. Crabs is about to enter his cut.


Kap is mid windup. Crabs is not yet open, but Kap knows he will be once he breaks behind the orange defender. The window will be there.


Crabs just caught the ball.


+12 yards. This is one of the areas I'd like to see Kap improve on and show more consistency. Throwing into open areas of zone coverage because he understands what is about to become open based on the routes being run versus the coverage he is seeing.

Not a huge fan of this design. I love the anticipation throw like you noted thl but to me, it looks like 4 TE's all running the same distance-routes and dropping down in a soft hole...all 2-3 yards from each other. If one isn't open, will the others? It doesn't look too challenging to defend either (although the Giants look like keystone cops there)making that window even smaller to throw in to. It looks like Boldin is the best option inside at the top too.

Did something happen over the past few weeks to change your mind regarding this concept? Or is it a better play because Andy Red called it?

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/179857-chiefs-coaches-film-analysis/#post11

thl...can you place that Chiefs route in here so everyone can see it side-by-side.

Notice the little cross to start the route and the sense of urgency off the LOS by the decoy and how he pulls the defender (who bites) away from the primary target...the pump fake by Alex to the decoy to hold the defender while he completes the pass to that space, the distance between the routes, the perfect timing of it, etc. It didn't even need to be an anticipation throw.

Now, watch ours. Slow, prodding, uninspired, super close together, etc. It took Crabtree 15 minutes just to get there. The design is very similar but doesn't inspire much overall.

My comment was general. It's a "meh" design but overall, more of a general feel for many of our passing routes as sin and 49AllTheTime noted above as well. It's the little things and you typically cover many of these.

Now if folks wants to watch a great drive with diversity, mix, forcing a defense off balance, using the width of the field, ending with a TD, sequence of play calling, etc. go watch the first series of the Chiefs/Hawks game.

This is just speculative observation, but one thing that really frustrates me with Kap is when he misses easy passes, and most of the time he's just "meh", onto the next one. He comes from the school of Favre, not Manning/Brady/Brees, i.e. he's not into precision. Like does he "demand perfection"? I feel like he doesn't. He cares about splash plays but not consistently hitting short/intermediate routes. It pains me to think of what Crabs and others are thinking when a pass sails by them (I know they've been dropping passes too) - that, I think, relates back to the leadership thing. If Kap keeps sailing passes every game, in critical situations, pretty sure that has an impact on everyone else. Like if you're starting to doubt if your QB can consistently hit his throws, either consciously or subconsciously, your effort and/or performance will suffer.

It's a credit to the defense that we've beaten Aaron Rodgers so many consecutive times. Talk about good quarterbacking, my god.