NY Giants coaches film analysis

Originally posted by jonnydel:
For something from the defense: This was a straight up bad a$$ play. 7:31 in the 1st Qtr



The Giants are gonna run a simple dive. The O-line is hat on hat, straight up blocking. The RB dives into the hole - very simple Run play. I've highlighted the blocking assignments.


As soon as the guard infront of him moves forward for a run block borland hits the hole. This is what I've talked about how he plays with no hesitation. You see Wilhoite is still trying to read the play and hasn't moved forward yet.


Borland hits the guard with absolute violence. It's more than just brute strength or being crazy, he does it with good form. He keeps his hips square and explodes through his hips(that's why power cleans are a great lift for LB's to get power) and hits the Guard just under his pads with his arms.


His hit is so violent that he knocks the guard back into the RB. The blue arrow is pointing at the RB's shoulder.


This blows up the play.


From this angle - it's hard to see, but the RB is stuffed against the guard as the guard was pushed back into the RB.


The Giants gain 3 yards. That was so awesome to watch. When I saw that play it got me really excited. That is amazing LB play.

Great analysis, and I agree with pretty much what you said and posted. I will add that Wilhoit plays the Mike, and Borland plays the Jack/plugger role. So Wilhoit will naturally hesitate more because he's reading the play, whereas the Plugger role is to immediately attack the play and come back out if it's a pass. At least that's what I think is the difference between the Mike and the Plugger role is - in the 3-4 defense.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Wow, 7 on 7 and Borland doesn't just shoot a gap, he BLOWS IT UP! Look at the difference between how Wilhoite and Borland play that assignment (and Wilhoite is a good players). But Borland? The leverage, fisrt-step burst to generate power, instincts, etc. Just awesome!

I saw it from the texans game when he got that interception. He absolutely trusts what he sees 100% of the time and because of his study habits he's right more than wrong. it's the equivalent of any of us seeing 1+1=
Some players say "Let's see, it looks like 1+1 so it's probably 2."
Players like him and a few others on this defense simply go "2."

Totally...look how Borland attacks the OG/gap and Wilhoite is flat-footed waiting to be engaged by his blcoker. Now, they may have different assignments but if not...

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well the *trend* is a sucky passing offense. Any DC worth his salt will 8 man in a box the run, and dare this offense to pass. Our run game is actually doing very well, thank you.

As for Jonnydel's question, I think the play in which crabs scored a TD is going to be exploited by this offense. The tendency of a defense is indeed to load up on the run and zone if it's not a run, so I think the offense needs to run those kinds of plays more. It's very much like the Martz offense with the square in's and square outs, because most teams zone the Martz offense - due to it's complexity. I think instead of vertical stretch plays, more sudden quick change routes like a square in, post, or square out will suit this WR corps better.

That, of course, means Colin has to be able to read the zone coverages much better and continue to develop the ability to throw blind. The nice thing about that play (the crabs TD) is I think there are options for Colin if it's man. I.e, if it's man, instead of a zone, Crabs (or anquan on the other side) runs a much sharper route to shake the man defender, maybe a hook, or a slant, or a hitch.

How about this between two fans. How about we watch the first down play calling for the next game. Let's break it down...what we liked, what we didn't, etc.? Were the coaches doing something different to address this issue but we clearly were failing on execution? Or was the play calling running into a brick wall and hamstringing the players? Drops, poor run blocking, blitz pick up, etc. I did the research, showed you a HUGE area of weakness for 10 games now, so let's try to get down to the source.

I already rewatched the game twice, and I already posted what I thought was wrong. Go back a few pages, I'm not going to look for it. Summary. TE play, O-line Play, and Colin's still learning the offense. What Jonnydel and thl408 analaysis did was pretty much confirm what I thought was happening. It's not my fault you don't understand how important the TE is to this offense. I've tried to explain it, but if you aren't open to that idea and have some bias against G-ro, not much I can do about that.

I've never made a single comment about about the TE position and in fact, certainly agree, to THIS offense, the TE role is very important, esp. in the run game and when VD is motivated (and catching), very important to opening both.

So you're happy with 1st down production? And chalk up the issues to the changes at C, Boone's holdout (line not being cohesive), TE's (in and out of the lineup) and CK. Not one single comment about play selection, predictability, patterns or perpetual issues not being addressed by coaching staff (i.e. problem fixed) despite this huge hole in our offense? So you lean on these two and chalk it up to "execution." Got it!

"Onward!"

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Wow, 7 on 7 and Borland doesn't just shoot a gap, he BLOWS IT UP! Look at the difference between how Wilhoite and Borland play that assignment (and Wilhoite is a good players). But Borland? The leverage, fisrt-step burst to generate power, instincts, etc. Just awesome!

I saw it from the texans game when he got that interception. He absolutely trusts what he sees 100% of the time and because of his study habits he's right more than wrong. it's the equivalent of any of us seeing 1+1=
Some players say "Let's see, it looks like 1+1 so it's probably 2."
Players like him and a few others on this defense simply go "2."

Totally...look how Borland attacks the OG/gap and Wilhoite is flat-footed waiting to be engaged by his blcoker. Now, they may have different assignments but if not...

They do have different assignments however the focus should not be on comparing those 2 in how they react, it should be just to focus on how Borland reacts that's what's most important.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
They do have different assignments however the focus should not be on comparing those 2 in how they react, it should be just to focus on how Borland reacts that's what's most important.

Truth!

And I like Wilhoite...

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well the *trend* is a sucky passing offense. Any DC worth his salt will 8 man in a box the run, and dare this offense to pass. Our run game is actually doing very well, thank you.

As for Jonnydel's question, I think the play in which crabs scored a TD is going to be exploited by this offense. The tendency of a defense is indeed to load up on the run and zone if it's not a run, so I think the offense needs to run those kinds of plays more. It's very much like the Martz offense with the square in's and square outs, because most teams zone the Martz offense - due to it's complexity. I think instead of vertical stretch plays, more sudden quick change routes like a square in, post, or square out will suit this WR corps better.

That, of course, means Colin has to be able to read the zone coverages much better and continue to develop the ability to throw blind. The nice thing about that play (the crabs TD) is I think there are options for Colin if it's man. I.e, if it's man, instead of a zone, Crabs (or anquan on the other side) runs a much sharper route to shake the man defender, maybe a hook, or a slant, or a hitch.

How about this between two fans. How about we watch the first down play calling for the next game. Let's break it down...what we liked, what we didn't, etc.? Were the coaches doing something different to address this issue but we clearly were failing on execution? Or was the play calling running into a brick wall and hamstringing the players? Drops, poor run blocking, blitz pick up, etc. I did the research, showed you a HUGE area of weakness for 10 games now, so let's try to get down to the source.

I already rewatched the game twice, and I already posted what I thought was wrong. Go back a few pages, I'm not going to look for it. Summary. TE play, O-line Play, and Colin's still learning the offense. What Jonnydel and thl408 analaysis did was pretty much confirm what I thought was happening. It's not my fault you don't understand how important the TE is to this offense. I've tried to explain it, but if you aren't open to that idea and have some bias against G-ro, not much I can do about that.

I've never made a single comment about about the TE position and in fact, certainly agree, to THIS offense, the TE role is very important, esp. in the run game and when VD is motivated (and catching), very important to opening both.

So you're happy with 1st down production? And chalk up the issues to the changes at C, Boone's holdout (line not being cohesive), TE's (in and out of the lineup) and CK. Not one single comment about play selection, predictability, patterns or perpetual issues not being addressed by coaching staff (i.e. problem fixed) despite this huge hole in our offense? So you lean on these two and chalk it up to "execution." Got it!

"Onward!"

NC - l like you as a poster, and don't want bad relations with you. I'm going to do a Marvin on this one and just agree to disagree with you.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
For something from the defense: This was a straight up bad a$$ play. 7:31 in the 1st Qtr



The Giants are gonna run a simple dive. The O-line is hat on hat, straight up blocking. The RB dives into the hole - very simple Run play. I've highlighted the blocking assignments.


As soon as the guard infront of him moves forward for a run block borland hits the hole. This is what I've talked about how he plays with no hesitation. You see Wilhoite is still trying to read the play and hasn't moved forward yet.


Borland hits the guard with absolute violence. It's more than just brute strength or being crazy, he does it with good form. He keeps his hips square and explodes through his hips(that's why power cleans are a great lift for LB's to get power) and hits the Guard just under his pads with his arms.


His hit is so violent that he knocks the guard back into the RB. The blue arrow is pointing at the RB's shoulder.


This blows up the play.


From this angle - it's hard to see, but the RB is stuffed against the guard as the guard was pushed back into the RB.


The Giants gain 3 yards. That was so awesome to watch. When I saw that play it got me really excited. That is amazing LB play.

Great analysis, and I agree with pretty much what you said and posted. I will add that Wilhoit plays the Mike, and Borland plays the Jack/plugger role. So Wilhoit will naturally hesitate more because he's reading the play, whereas the Plugger role is to immediately attack the play and come back out if it's a pass. At least that's what I think is the difference between the Mike and the Plugger role is - in the 3-4 defense.

As far as I understand, from what I've read, and what I've seen, Borland plays the "mike" and Wilhoite the "Jack". Fangio talked about how they were trying to determine in pre-season which position Willis was gonna play because if Wilhoite started, Willis would be the "mike" and if Borland started, he would be the "Jack". In the Dallas game, the mic they had on Willis he came to the sideline and said, "boy playing that Mike sure is a different animal".

Originally posted by Giedi:
NC - l like you as a poster, and don't want bad relations with you. I'm going to do a Marvin on this one and just agree to disagree with you.

LOL. You got it! And I feel the same...no worries. Was just hoping someone would be willing to review objectively together next week.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Wow, 7 on 7 and Borland doesn't just shoot a gap, he BLOWS IT UP! Look at the difference between how Wilhoite and Borland play that assignment (and Wilhoite is a good players). But Borland? The leverage, fisrt-step burst to generate power, instincts, etc. Just awesome!

I saw it from the texans game when he got that interception. He absolutely trusts what he sees 100% of the time and because of his study habits he's right more than wrong. it's the equivalent of any of us seeing 1+1=
Some players say "Let's see, it looks like 1+1 so it's probably 2."
Players like him and a few others on this defense simply go "2."

Totally...look how Borland attacks the OG/gap and Wilhoite is flat-footed waiting to be engaged by his blcoker. Now, they may have different assignments but if not...

They do have different assignments however the focus should not be on comparing those 2 in how they react, it should be just to focus on how Borland reacts that's what's most important.

While they do have different assignments. You never want your LB's waiting to engage the blockers. If you notice on the play, Wilhoite waits for the guard to engage him, he doesn't fill the hole. You want your LB's filling holes and blowing up lead blockers. The assignments are really only different in which gaps they're responsible for. Wilhoite - while a good player, does show hesitation on attacking the run lanes. When I watched P Willis play his spot, he attacked the blockers a lot more than Wilhoite.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
Defenses are being forced to pick their poison. To shut down Wilson in the passing game, they are leaving gaping running lanes for Lynch. Wilson is also getting it done on the ground, which shows that the defense is not able to play the run effectively. If the defense committed to shutting down the run, it seems likely that Wilson's production through the air would improve.

This is not connected to the discussion of Wilson being a good leader last season.

lol you seriously think defenses are looking to stop Wilson and the Seahawks passing game before concentrating on Lynch?

Check how successful Seattle is running out of the spread. You're telling me Frank Gore and Hyde can't get it done? I believe the numbers are actually better when we run out of the spread. We just don't do it enough...why? Great question.

Running out of the spread helps the whole offense. It makes it easier to attack the defense with multiple receivers out there via pass and it also prevents the defense from stacking the box to stop the run(if they do that vs a spread look then they're just begging to be gashed via the pass)

these are some cold blooded formations... so much you can do with these.

Great jobs and the analysis guys and thanks for taking your time and effort to provide these plays. Our defense is still doing fantastic and should only improve with what looks to be a hell of a pass rush with A.Smith,J.Smith,RayMac and Lynch. On offense I still consider Harbaugh's comments from preseason in wjhich he stated "we're just off" which still seems to be the case. Everybody has a hand in it from if its the right time for a certain play, to if the oline can block it, to our Qb making the right read and finally to our Wrs and Rbs finishing the play (Vernon either is not healthy or doesnt care, because he does seem to have a lack of effort) . One thing doesnt pull its weight on a giving play and our whole offense crumbles. So to me, everyone has a hand on our offensive output. The same guys in Harbaugh and Roman who took us and made us relevant, have not forgotten offense in the offseason. We're going to be Fine and our offense will improve this year, and when it does, not even the Packers (who most experts consider the Best in the NFC so far) will be able to compete.

My two cents is that this offense cannot continue to shoot themselves in the foot on first down and get very far. When you are constantly going into 2nd and 8, 2nd and 9, 2nd and 10 or more.....you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

When the run game works early on, it seems that as an offense, whether its the players or the coaches, they become way too content on doing the same thing over and over again even after the defense has adjusted. Loaded box on 1st?......keep running it for 2 yards, a 1 yard or no gain at all. That makes even less sense when you consider the many viable targets this team now has. It isn't Brett Swain and Kyle Williams trotting out on to the field at WR anymore.


If there was a simple goal for this offense, a good place to start would be to utilize both the run and the pass to consistently get into 2nd and 5, 2nd and 4...etc type situations that favor the offense and keep the defense on their toes. There is way too much offensive talent on this roster for them to continually fall into these bad situations, far too many 2nd and 3rd and long's to maintain any sort of offensive rhythm or flow.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Wow, 7 on 7 and Borland doesn't just shoot a gap, he BLOWS IT UP! Look at the difference between how Wilhoite and Borland play that assignment (and Wilhoite is a good players). But Borland? The leverage, fisrt-step burst to generate power, instincts, etc. Just awesome!

I saw it from the texans game when he got that interception. He absolutely trusts what he sees 100% of the time and because of his study habits he's right more than wrong. it's the equivalent of any of us seeing 1+1=
Some players say "Let's see, it looks like 1+1 so it's probably 2."
Players like him and a few others on this defense simply go "2."

Totally...look how Borland attacks the OG/gap and Wilhoite is flat-footed waiting to be engaged by his blcoker. Now, they may have different assignments but if not...

They do have different assignments however the focus should not be on comparing those 2 in how they react, it should be just to focus on how Borland reacts that's what's most important.

While they do have different assignments. You never want your LB's waiting to engage the blockers. If you notice on the play, Wilhoite waits for the guard to engage him, he doesn't fill the hole. You want your LB's filling holes and blowing up lead blockers. The assignments are really only different in which gaps they're responsible for. Wilhoite - while a good player, does show hesitation on attacking the run lanes. When I watched P Willis play his spot, he attacked the blockers a lot more than Wilhoite.

Agreed I saw the same thing when I watched other games on rewind breaking down the film.
I think Wilhoite is a fine defender but he's going to have to step up because teams are going to go after him and stay away from borland. Hopefully he does big time, I think he can.

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
Defenses are being forced to pick their poison. To shut down Wilson in the passing game, they are leaving gaping running lanes for Lynch. Wilson is also getting it done on the ground, which shows that the defense is not able to play the run effectively. If the defense committed to shutting down the run, it seems likely that Wilson's production through the air would improve.

This is not connected to the discussion of Wilson being a good leader last season.

lol you seriously think defenses are looking to stop Wilson and the Seahawks passing game before concentrating on Lynch?

Check how successful Seattle is running out of the spread. You're telling me Frank Gore and Hyde can't get it done? I believe the numbers are actually better when we run out of the spread. We just don't do it enough...why? Great question.

Running out of the spread helps the whole offense. It makes it easier to attack the defense with multiple receivers out there via pass and it also prevents the defense from stacking the box to stop the run(if they do that vs a spread look then they're just begging to be gashed via the pass)

these are some cold blooded formations... so much you can do with these.

that's basically the play Hyde scored with against Dallas. It's open every red zone trip for him to score. Spreading them thin and then having people that can't stop that load of steam coming at them 1 on 1 would work a high percentage of the time if they'd just do it.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
My two cents is that this offense cannot continue to shoot themselves in the foot on first down and get very far. When you are constantly going into 2nd and 8, 2nd and 9, 2nd and 10 or more.....you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

When the run game works early on, it seems that as an offense, whether its the players or the coaches, they become way too content on doing the same thing over and over again even after the defense has adjusted. Loaded box on 1st?......keep running it for 2 yards, a 1 yard or no gain at all.


If there was a simple goal for this offense, a good place to start would be to utilize both the run and the pass to consistently get into 2nd and 5, 2nd and 4...etc type situations that favor the offense and keep the defense on their toes. There is way too much offensive talent on this roster for them to continually fall into these bad situations, far too many 2nd and 3rd and long's to maintain any sort of offensive rhythm or flow.

This! And most of these gains can be done with simple, quick hitters to RB's, FB's, TE's as primary receivers...not just as check-downs. That's an element we badly miss here. A quick-hitter keeps your QB upright, the pass protection is a moot point, etc...gets your offense in rhythm, a flow, gets everyone involved in the passing game, etc. and suddenly, the running game and WR's open up. But again, that's not who we are or how we operate.