St. Louis Rams week 9 coaches film analysis

Originally posted by Antix:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Here is an interesting sack pattern:

#1 1st and 10 @ 2.0 seconds (Boone/Davis)
#2 3rd and 10 @ 2.5 (Staley/Gore)
#3 2nd and 6 @ 2.0 (Davis)
#4 3rd and 3 @ 3.0 but pressure at 2.0 (CK)
#5 2nd and 1 @ 3.0 (Staley)
#6 1st and 10 @ 4.0 but pressure at 2.0 (Boone/Martin)
#7 1st and 10 @ 3.0 but pressure at 2.0 (Martin)
#8 2nd and 11 @ 4.0 but no receiving options but avoids the sack (Design)

At what point would YOU switch up the game plan here and start running wham blocks, going max protect, delayed chip-releases by the backs, quick-strike passes, using the TE's to the vacated areas of the blitzing LB's, middle screens, designed delayed middle QB runs, etc.?

I was screaming for this on Sunday. I knew Roman wouldn't have the acumen to consistently throw short passes or screens because he's too much of an amateur to figure out how to do it, but I at least thought he'd go max protect and chip pass rushers. Nope..let's just keep on doing the same thing and hope something changes on its own.

It's not like we haven't been struggling with PP the entire year (much d/t the type of passing offense we run here) and then, if you watched the Rams the past two weeks, they were starting to heat up in the pass rush department so...maybe, just maybe, have a backup game plan just in case? Either way, whether it was with their base 4 or bringing more exotic blitzes, it didn't take long to see that the Rams were starting to get into a rhythm. And when that happens and you don't adjust? You end up with 8 sacks, 15 pressures, a near safety and everyone calling for your job (and your HC as well). We've had 9 weeks to combat the same issues we've seen defenses force on us. Throw in unmotivated players and the same play calling deep in our own EZ and all the continual RZ issues and everyone IS justified to call for heads after 3.5 years of the same exact issues/patterns.

There are some smart folks here in NT. Assuming everything stays the same (b/c it will), are there any other additional (realistic) suggestions on play calling, personnel, etc. that can be used to combat all of this? Off tackle screens aren't ideal b/c of the fatties but middle screens should work...stuff like that.

Originally posted by thl408:

Not sure if that was directed at me because I showed all the sacks and mentioned that on a couple of the sacks there was an opportunity to get rid of the ball. Anyway, I understand that the pocket was crumbling all around Kap. I was merely mentioning that is was possible for him to get rid of the ball and to which WR. I didn't expect him to look to the other side of the field. It was always to the same side he was already looking. I actually don't expect him to see these small windows in the face of pressure. That's something even 10 year vets don't do. I guess I was pointing out the best case scenario on some (not all) of those sacks where he actually got to complete his dropback without a defender already in his face.

The point of the 8 sack breakdown was to determine if it was playcalling, pass pro, Kap, or good defense. I think I saw all of those contribute to the 8 sacks with one being the main culprit imo. It was poor Oline play that was the main contributor. Whether it was Staley losing his 1v1 versus Quinn, Martin having his trial by fire, or Boone being Boone. No QB could have done well under those circumstances. Generally speaking, because each sack was different, the best Kap could have done for damage control was throw it away to prevent the loss of yardage. That's what kills drives and offensive morale.

No I like hearing your analysis and find I agree with you most of the time. It was more of a general statement. It seems to me that a lot of people expect a perfect game from Kap and judge that based off the coaches film without taking into account his line of sight. Just tired of unfair critcism. I can respect arguments based on fact or logic regardless of my own opinion.

Originally posted by thl408:
At the request of jonnydel, here is a missed opportunity to score a TD in the red zone.

jonnydel wrote (via PM):
I wish I had time to break it down, but I don't. On the FG drive of the game, 3rd and 10, Kap goes for the streak to Crabtree and it's a ball that was both uncatchable and a bad decision. The Rams were in a cover 2 zone and the safety was over the top the whole time. There wasn't any route on that side of the field to make the safety not drive on the route. On the other side though, Lloyd runs a streak with Davis running a deep crossing route. Right when Kap starts to throw the ball, the safety on the backside was jumping Davis crossing route, leaving Lloyd wide open in the endzone - might wanna highlight that.

I see it slightly different in that I thought someone else was open. You decide.

1Q First drive of the game.
3rd & 10
49ers: 4 Verticals concept
STL: Tampa2
This is a good playcall versus this coverage. With just 3 deep defenders, one of which is a MLB (blue), one of the 4 vertical routes has a chance to be open.


Kap completes his dropback and starts his windup - targeting Crabs along the right sideline. Notice the position of the orange deep safety and how he is in good position to defend Crabs. The MLB (blue) has his hips turned the wrong direction if he is to defend VD, which he should be. VD breaks to the post.


The ball just left Kap's hand. With the orange deep safety playing wide (close to the sideline), the throw to Crabs is not the correct throw and is rather risky.


If the throw to Crabs was accurate (not overthrown) it may have been picked off by the deep safety. At the very least, batted away.

I thought it was the incorrect read from the start as well. Also, it was immediately AFTER a TO which to me, implies poor coaching/scheme unless the Rams disguised a coverage last second here and threw off CK's primary read. Obviously Crabtree was the primary read here given our M.O. So I don't like it...I'd prefer 1 of the 3 in the middle of the field as the primary read here giving you a better probablity of completion (Boldin/Davis/Hyde) esp. with S help over the top on both outside receivers. In fact, with the type of pressure we were getting all day, I'd instruct him to look to Crabtree first (if you HAD to call this play) and if he wasn't there immediately, quickly check down to Hyde here...which, as you can see, would have been a nice big gain if not a TD.

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
Hey thl408,

At the end of the half, I think you said Kap had already been sacked 6 times??? Did you notice in the second half any adjustments made by the offense to help protect Kap? More TE's or shorter routes, etc...

Also, this is a soapbox of mine. What have you notice from Crabtree? Everyone loves to bash him, but I feel like from your breakdowns, he was open for some Td's or big plays. Seems like he is doing what is asked of him. Offensive line is playing poorly right now and i think that gives Kap no time to hit the wr's but what do you see in effort, routes, blocking, etc...

Thanks for the hard work!

The 49ers did come out of the half making adjustments and trying to slow down the STL pass rush. They ran a draw play to Gore near the end of the first half (minimal gain as Boone fails to sustain a block). They ran a screen play at the opening of the second half (nice +9 yards). They called quick throws to SJ, Crabs. Then when penalties occurred, it killed momentum. The shorter routes were given to the WRs more so than the TE it seemed. With the Rams playing cover3 so often, the 49ers tried to take advantage of how the CBs would bail to their deep zones by throwing the short underneath.

Here is a summary of the 49ers first drive of the 2nd half:
1st & 10: Gore trap play (Boone called for Holding)
1st & 20: Middle screen pass to Gore for +9


2nd & 11: Kap to SJ for +11 (quick throw)


1st & 10: Gore run up middle for +3.

2nd & 7: Quick out to Crabs (dropped pass)



3rd & 7: Offsides on Martin

3rd & 12: Crabs screen pass. This was a telling playcall to me. The 49ers needed 12 yards, but was not going to ask Kap (or the Oline) to try to complete a downfield pass at the risk of another sack.


Punt. So you can see the coaches were aware of the STL pass rush and made adjustments. Screen play, run plays to get the run game going, and quick hitting passes. Then a dropped pass and a penalty throws a monkey wrench into the drive.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I thought it was the incorrect read from the start as well. Also, it was immediately AFTER a TO which to me, implies poor coaching/scheme unless the Rams disguised a coverage last second here and threw off CK's primary read. Obviously Crabtree was the primary read here given our M.O. So I don't like it...I'd prefer 1 of the 3 in the middle of the field as the primary read here giving you a better probablity of completion (Boldin/Davis/Hyde) esp. with S help over the top on both outside receivers. In fact, with the type of pressure we were getting all day, I'd instruct him to look to Crabtree first (if you HAD to call this play) and if he wasn't there immediately, quickly check down to Hyde here...which, as you can see, would have been a nice big gain if not a TD.

Woah man. How do you look at that and think it's the coaches' fault? Are they supposed to call the play and throw the ball to the open WR? There are four options to throw to on this play (5 if you count the check release by Hyde). It is up to Kap to read the actions of the safety and make the proper decision. This is the assignment of the QB when using the 4 Verticals concept. Crabs was probably the least proper decision. Fortunately, it was overthrown.

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:

Originally posted by BuZzB28:

They had already championship it. If they had problem then who care? They had all already championship period. Respect them whatever they do win or loss. It's not matter. Other qb are many bust and suck when they are nope championship. Look at Wilson got a championship when he is 2 years.. I learned about that new to me and keep gain to experience for me.

If you wanted to enjoys for playoff and failed for championship like Jeff Garcia. Garcia was really suck and bad his leader. Garcia looked like f**kin gave up for championship. He was damn lazy ass..

Kap was better much and fun at playoff but he was real failed for championship. And he is not smart quarterback and bad decisions to throw at.

I don't get your point. So you're only allowed to not play like a god every game if you won a Super Bowl?

Lol. I don't playing it. I am watch the football when I understood about wins games and easy for me. Kap is talent to playing by himself to do. Sometime change my mind if I would give to kap for chance time. I alway have change my mind sometime. I wonder 49ers will chance time and ready time to get championship. Hopefully. .bro?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
Kap Sacked #8

Pass pro was poor all game, but this play takes the cake.

49ers: 2 man route combination. Post + In route which is usually used to beat cover2.
STL: cover3


4 man rush versus 8 (EIGHT!) man protection.


Iupati makes sure that Martin has it under control before turning his attention to Staley versus Quinn. ADavis gets beat on a swim move, but understands he has Gore behind him to back him up.


The dam is already breaking.


Gore is about to take on a DL. With a 2 man route versus 7 in coverage, no surprise that no one is open. But that should be okay because a 4 man rush versus 8 man protection allows the QB to stand around a bit and wait for someone to become open. Perhaps once SJ makes his way across the field.


Staley gets beat around the edge. Martin did not have it under control. Boone is holding out again. ADavis chillin cause he knows Gore got his back. Vance is on his back, tripped by the DL that swam by ADavis. VD has no one to block.






Loss of -4 sets up 3rd & 15. Punt is shanked for 23 yards.

This one just INFURIATES me! With max protection CK has no chance on this play...none...not b/c the OL had given up by this point but b/c we only had two WR's available on this play as a result and look at the two routes...SJ? No chance...2 defenders with him the entire time and he is the only reasonable "option" if you can call him that. The other is 35-40 yard go-route by Lloyd WHILE we're backed up in our own EZ and need to get the ball out quickly to avoid a safety. LMAO. So...pathetic...situational awareness! We should be THANKING CK for helping us avoid a give-me safety here big time!

It infuriated me as well - we're going to be resurrecting that passing game thread again that we had from 2012/2013 with the AR concept.
I cannot fathom why Roman is calling long developing, deep pass plays with WR's who cannot really get separation when the Oline cannot block a 4 man rush. It's so unforgivably stupid and displays no regard for situational football. To attempt a pass in the situation above when the OLine is so poor is inviting a safety - Kap should be thanked for not giving one up because it was close.

I'd love to get a passing game analysis thread going with thl408 and Jonnydel to see what our tendencies are and how basic our scheme is! Might be a request for after the Saints game!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Here is an interesting sack pattern:

#1 1st and 10 @ 2.0 seconds (Boone/Davis)
#2 3rd and 10 @ 2.5 (Staley/Gore)
#3 2nd and 6 @ 2.0 (Davis)
#4 3rd and 3 @ 3.0 but pressure at 2.0 (CK)
#5 2nd and 1 @ 3.0 (Staley)
#6 1st and 10 @ 4.0 but pressure at 2.0 (Boone/Martin)
#7 1st and 10 @ 3.0 but pressure at 2.0 (Martin)
#8 2nd and 11 @ 4.0 but no receiving options but avoids the sack (Design)

At what point would YOU switch up the game plan here and start running wham blocks, going max protect, delayed chip-releases by the backs, quick-strike passes, using the TE's to the vacated areas of the blitzing LB's, middle screens, designed delayed middle QB runs, etc.?

Offensive Lines are something wrong with kap. I think, they hate on kap.. Maybe.. I wonder why sack on kap for 8 times then blames on offensive Lines and Boone, too. Kap should yell at OL, WR and Te are must pay attend and f**king playing for us. Kap must a leader and show it. They will respect to kap because he is Captain and leader for us.


I saw Peyton Manning and Tom Brady did yell at OL, WR and TE, too. They does work and won games.

Originally posted by Buchy:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
Kap Sacked #8

Pass pro was poor all game, but this play takes the cake.

49ers: 2 man route combination. Post + In route which is usually used to beat cover2.
STL: cover3


4 man rush versus 8 (EIGHT!) man protection.


Iupati makes sure that Martin has it under control before turning his attention to Staley versus Quinn. ADavis gets beat on a swim move, but understands he has Gore behind him to back him up.


The dam is already breaking.


Gore is about to take on a DL. With a 2 man route versus 7 in coverage, no surprise that no one is open. But that should be okay because a 4 man rush versus 8 man protection allows the QB to stand around a bit and wait for someone to become open. Perhaps once SJ makes his way across the field.


Staley gets beat around the edge. Martin did not have it under control. Boone is holding out again. ADavis chillin cause he knows Gore got his back. Vance is on his back, tripped by the DL that swam by ADavis. VD has no one to block.






Loss of -4 sets up 3rd & 15. Punt is shanked for 23 yards.

This one just INFURIATES me! With max protection CK has no chance on this play...none...not b/c the OL had given up by this point but b/c we only had two WR's available on this play as a result and look at the two routes...SJ? No chance...2 defenders with him the entire time and he is the only reasonable "option" if you can call him that. The other is 35-40 yard go-route by Lloyd WHILE we're backed up in our own EZ and need to get the ball out quickly to avoid a safety. LMAO. So...pathetic...situational awareness! We should be THANKING CK for helping us avoid a give-me safety here big time!

It infuriated me as well - we're going to be resurrecting that passing game thread again that we had from 2012/2013 with the AR concept.
I cannot fathom why Roman is calling long developing, deep pass plays with WR's who cannot really get separation when the Oline cannot block a 4 man rush. It's so unforgivably stupid and displays no regard for situational football. To attempt a pass in the situation above when the OLine is so poor is inviting a safety - Kap should be thanked for not giving one up because it was close.

I'd love to get a passing game analysis thread going with thl408 and Jonnydel to see what our tendencies are and how basic our scheme is! Might be a request for after the Saints game!

I agree with your point about calling for deep passes when there are no deep threat WRs, but at what point do you have to depend on the players to execute? The coaches called for max protection by keeping in 8 blockers. It's not like they called the 7 step drop with 5, or 6, or 7 blockers. Max protection shows me that the coaches understood they had to do things out of the norm to have any success at a deep throw. The coaches are basically saying, "omg you guys suck at pass pro, but we need to pass. Here's 8 blockers." And they still couldn't hold down the fort. Honestly, how would the coaches know that even when calling for max protection, that the players still can't get it done?

A team can't just call 3 steppers because the defense catches on quick. Then we start seeing INTs and batted passes at the line of scrimmage.

This is sort of related to film analysis of the game but not really. I used to kind of like Jeff Fisher but now he's turned into a major douchebag. He still lamenting the call that was made of forward progress stopped when Gore fumbled the ball and his team supposedly returned it for a TD. Hmmm... I seem to remember the exact same call that was made in favor of the NY Giants that had it been ruled a fumble would've sent the 49ers to the Super Bowl in Harbaugh's first year as HC. Fisher was going to whine and cry like a little b***h even more so if the Rams had lost the game. Well guess what douche? We did lose a game because of that call with 100 times more at stake than what you potentially might have. You didn't hear Harbaugh complaining that he thought either Crab's catch near the goal line or Kap's QB sneak should've been called a TD. Fisher's a pornstache wearing f**k face.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I thought it was the incorrect read from the start as well. Also, it was immediately AFTER a TO which to me, implies poor coaching/scheme unless the Rams disguised a coverage last second here and threw off CK's primary read. Obviously Crabtree was the primary read here given our M.O. So I don't like it...I'd prefer 1 of the 3 in the middle of the field as the primary read here giving you a better probablity of completion (Boldin/Davis/Hyde) esp. with S help over the top on both outside receivers. In fact, with the type of pressure we were getting all day, I'd instruct him to look to Crabtree first (if you HAD to call this play) and if he wasn't there immediately, quickly check down to Hyde here...which, as you can see, would have been a nice big gain if not a TD.

Woah man. How do you look at that and think it's the coaches' fault? Are they supposed to call the play and throw the ball to the open WR? There are four options to throw to on this play (5 if you count the check release by Hyde). It is up to Kap to read the actions of the safety and make the proper decision. This is the assignment of the QB when using the 4 Verticals concept. Crabs was probably the least proper decision. Fortunately, it was overthrown.

How? B/c it was called immediately after a TO which means Roman had time to call the play and Harbaugh had time to coach it up, "If-then." No offense, but has Crabtree to the corner of the EZ ever worked? Poor call. No real issues with the design itself though but like I said, why make Crabtree the primary read 30 yards down the field in the right corner of the EZ? With the amount of pressure we've been giving up all day long, make 1 of the 3 in the middle of the field the primary read (easier/quicker read/throw). OR, if you are going to make Crabtree the primary read, coach him up that if he sees over-the-top S help or the CB is even with Crabtree (cough, Sherman, cough), pull it down and hit the check down instantly. And as expected, he barely had 3 seconds to throw anyhow...

Originally posted by BuZzB28:
Offensive Lines are something wrong with kap. I think, they hate on kap.. Maybe.. I wonder why sack on kap for 8 times then blames on offensive Lines and Boone, too. Kap should yell at OL, WR and Te are must pay attend and f**king playing for us. Kap must a leader and show it. They will respect to kap because he is Captain and leader for us.


I saw Peyton Manning and Tom Brady did yell at OL, WR and TE, too. They does work and won games.

Actually yeah, I do agree with you...I've been wanting to see him get up in Staley's grill all year long and say, "You DON'T suck? Prove it!"

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by BuZzB28:

Offensive Lines are something wrong with kap. I think, they hate on kap.. Maybe.. I wonder why sack on kap for 8 times then blames on offensive Lines and Boone, too. Kap should yell at OL, WR and Te are must pay attend and f**king playing for us. Kap must a leader and show it. They will respect to kap because he is Captain and leader for us.


I saw Peyton Manning and Tom Brady did yell at OL, WR and TE, too. They does work and won games.

Actually yeah, I do agree with you...I've been wanting to see him get up in Staley's grill all year long and say, "You DON'T suck? Prove it!"

I don't watch to rams vs 49ers game last sunday. So I read on thl408 is post here for picture and explain it. I am piss off and blame on kap but I just want to forgive on kap because they allow to sack on kap for 8 times. I am just wrong because i am angry. Forgive me bro.. I am like wtf and wonder at all. Blame on Offensive Lines and Boone.

I wanted kap need relationship with OL, WR and TE how became to get bestfriend that important is related. If they have problem then kap should yell at them. f**kin wake up and f**king play for us. Watch out yoo (our team's players offense

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Buchy:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
Kap Sacked #8

Pass pro was poor all game, but this play takes the cake.

49ers: 2 man route combination. Post + In route which is usually used to beat cover2.
STL: cover3


4 man rush versus 8 (EIGHT!) man protection.


Iupati makes sure that Martin has it under control before turning his attention to Staley versus Quinn. ADavis gets beat on a swim move, but understands he has Gore behind him to back him up.


The dam is already breaking.


Gore is about to take on a DL. With a 2 man route versus 7 in coverage, no surprise that no one is open. But that should be okay because a 4 man rush versus 8 man protection allows the QB to stand around a bit and wait for someone to become open. Perhaps once SJ makes his way across the field.


Staley gets beat around the edge. Martin did not have it under control. Boone is holding out again. ADavis chillin cause he knows Gore got his back. Vance is on his back, tripped by the DL that swam by ADavis. VD has no one to block.






Loss of -4 sets up 3rd & 15. Punt is shanked for 23 yards.

This one just INFURIATES me! With max protection CK has no chance on this play...none...not b/c the OL had given up by this point but b/c we only had two WR's available on this play as a result and look at the two routes...SJ? No chance...2 defenders with him the entire time and he is the only reasonable "option" if you can call him that. The other is 35-40 yard go-route by Lloyd WHILE we're backed up in our own EZ and need to get the ball out quickly to avoid a safety. LMAO. So...pathetic...situational awareness! We should be THANKING CK for helping us avoid a give-me safety here big time!

It infuriated me as well - we're going to be resurrecting that passing game thread again that we had from 2012/2013 with the AR concept.
I cannot fathom why Roman is calling long developing, deep pass plays with WR's who cannot really get separation when the Oline cannot block a 4 man rush. It's so unforgivably stupid and displays no regard for situational football. To attempt a pass in the situation above when the OLine is so poor is inviting a safety - Kap should be thanked for not giving one up because it was close.

I'd love to get a passing game analysis thread going with thl408 and Jonnydel to see what our tendencies are and how basic our scheme is! Might be a request for after the Saints game!

I agree with your point about calling for deep passes when there are no deep threat WRs, but at what point do you have to depend on the players to execute? The coaches called for max protection by keeping in 8 blockers. It's not like they called the 7 step drop with 5, or 6, or 7 blockers. Max protection shows me that the coaches understood they had to do things out of the norm to have any success at a deep throw. The coaches are basically saying, "omg you guys suck at pass pro, but we need to pass. Here's 8 blockers." And they still couldn't hold down the fort. Honestly, how would the coaches know that even when calling for max protection, that the players still can't get it done?

A team can't just call 3 steppers because the defense catches on quick. Then we start seeing INTs and batted passes at the line of scrimmage.

True...you might as well put all 10 back to max protect on this "pass" play since the end result is going to be the same either way. I agree that there needs to be a balance (you can't do all 3 step drops or quick hitters or just long developing 5 and 7-step drops or 3+ second shot gun passes or the defenses will be licking their chops) but in this case, were we running a bunch of quick-hitters and 3-step drops to the point the Rams had to adjust? Of course not...they just stayed in cover 3 all game waiting for our long-developing intermediate to deeper passing game which is why the quick screen to Gore and the quick-outs to Crabtree and Ellington worked so well.

That line is s**t!