Reason and Emotion

Originally posted by WildBill:
A good example of big signings that went nowhere but south are the eagles and the bucaneers-looked like they were doing something and everyone raved about them and how it made their teams one of the front runnners......yeah front to mediocrity.

Like our big booster on ESPN says they don't play the game on paper...that's why they play the game. Cause on any given sunday (monday, thursday and saturday too).....

This, and you don't win the super bowl in the offseason, just brownie points, lol.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
This, and you don't win the super bowl in the offseason, just brownie points, lol.

Yup. See 2011 Philadelphia Eagles "Dream Team"

Originally posted by TexasNiner:
You and I just see things very differently. As is the case with many fans, and the point of this thread. For example: Reid may eventually be an upgrade over Goldson. I sure hope he becomes the next Ronnie Lott. At this point though, it's basically a push. Hopefully, he continues to improve and it isn't a case of a solid player not being asked to do too much by a veteran team.

Reid is already an upgrade over Goldson, not eventually. I saw a player that has smarter, shows better awareness and didn't have the stupid brainfart's that Goldson was infamous for. It was evident early on with the better communications between him and Whitner. Did things go perfectly, no, but he's already a better performer overall.

This year will tell a lot as he is now the only starter returning in the secondary. Same kind of deal with Bethea vs. Whitner and our two new starters at CB. If Brock was so good, why wasn't he starting over T. Brown and Rogers when everyone was healthy

Sometimes it takes an injury for a guy to get a look and be given a chance, once he gets it, he runs away with the job, is it really that unusual? Why didn't Kaepernick start over Alex Smith from the beginning of 2012 instead of after he was injured? Injuries can be opportunities for guys to show what they can do and Brock made the most of his opportunity.

It's nice to assume Brock and Cully will be as good or better, but both have been on the team for several years, and neither have shown that they are significantly better than what we have had. At best, they are hopefully the same.

Several years? Culliver played in 2 seasons and looked like one of the best CB's in the NFL in his 2nd season, constantly rated as one of the best in the NFL throughout the 2012 regular season. Brock has been a ballhawking cornerback that this team has not had in a long time, Culliver was improving as a young player and he'll get the chance to continue that in 2014.

So, Eric Wright (hopefully), becomes the the Cully/Brock nickle guy and Cook is the Wright low risk/high reward project. Same kind of deal as last year, just less experience, less depth and we are just hoping for equal or better results and that players with poor performance and/or injury issues last year bounce back.

You act as if there isn't a draft coming up where the 49ers will likely add to their CB depth. Brock and Culliver look to be solid as starters, if he wins the nickel job, then Wright is an experienced NFL starter who should do a good job. Bethea is a veteran, smart, experienced safety who won't get penalized the way that Whitner was and is a better tackler. Reid will hopefully take another step forward to become one of the very best safeties in the NFL.

We will see how Patton develops, but Baldwin seems worthless and has on two different teams. That you would mention him as part of the reason we wouldn't persue a vet startles me. He is camp fodder at best.

Rather take a shot on Baldwin developing than a random average veteran. The 49ers have have Crabtree and Boldin, they have their starters, they have a promising young player in Patton, now all they need is depth. Baldwin hasn't been much so far but once again, rather see him getting the opportunity than a guy who won't be around for more than a year or two. Patton certainly should be allowed to develop, if you look at teams like Green Bay and the Giants, they don't go out and blow money signing receivers from other teams. They consistently draft receivers, develop them, let them contribute and if they want more money, they let them walk and....next man up.

Skuta was solid, but we need better than that if we are going to compete for the SB, especially with arguably our best player on D out for at least half the year. Again, to me, this seems like a guy who had a career year benefiting from the system and players around him, not someone you can depend on year in and year out to provide championship level play. And we are taking the same kind of risk with all the young guys, especially the ones coming off injuries.

The 49ers are already competing for the Superbowl, you talk as if this a 7-9 team not a team that has been to 3 straight Conference Championship's and a Superbowl.


For a backup OLB, a guy who was only expected to be a special team's performer, Skuta did tremendously well and was actually effective as a starter. He did a damn good job, not sure how you can argue otherwise. In the modern NFL, no your backup OLB isn't going to be the same as your Pro-Bowl, looking like a future HOF, beastly monster OLB. Skuta as a backup is about as good as it gets.

I hope as much as anyone that they become all pros. But to assume so is asinine. Banking on players with little to no experience and injury issues is a very tough sell to me.

Yes of course, don't develop your younger players, they are too risky, build the team through free agency, because that is how you become successful in the NFL, go out there and sign errrrybody. It has worked so well for Dallas, Washington, Philadelphia, Miami, Tampa Bay...etc.

The only moves, other than Boldin, which was an excellent move, we have made, were basically when we had no other choice. When we had NO kicker, we signed a kicker, when we had NO NT, we signed Dorsey, when we had NO safety and already a very young guy on one side, we signed Bethea.

So you mean when the 49ers have a legitimate need, the front office actually goes and gets it taken care of that? That's just crazy talk.

To me, retaining T. Brown or getting Thurman or getting a solid vet as a 3rd WR, or getting depth/upgrades on the dline should have been a priority, not a luxury. We are not that dominant of a team. And we don't seem to be trending in the right direction. We didn't necessarily need to do ALL of those things, or to get one of the biggest names out there, but to bank on the draft or our corps of young/injured reserve players to fill all those needs seems overly optimistic, especially when it seems the gap between what we want to pay and what contracts are being signed for are nominally different.

Why do you need a "solid vet" as a 3rd WR? I think Patton is fine in that spot and should get all the chances to perform, as with other young receivers they might add in the draft. The only thing you do by signing some average free agent off the street is to delay the development of your own young players. I'm sure for the right price the 49ers would have been interested to add someone but guys were either overpriced or not worth the time. Had Brown accepted the 3 year/10 million deal he was offered, he would be a 49er. His issue is that he didn't want to play nickelback and assumed that he could get more taking a "prove it" deal with a lousy team where he could be a starter so he hopefully could get a huge deal at age 30. He doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed.

We seem to be willing to pay around $3 mil a year. Contracts are being signed for around $3.5 to 4 mil a year on 1 to 3 years deals. If we had to go from 3 to 4 mil a year to get it done to shore up one of these key areas, to me, that seems well worth it. I have much more confidence in a vet that has proven they can do it at the NFL level, then on a rookie or young player with little to no experience to be the difference maker we need to get over the hump.

They have a TOTAL cap space of about $4 million. $4 million, that means money needed to sign rookies as well. Not sure where you're getting this fantasy of them signing like a dozen different players. They took care of their need at strong safety, acquired a swing tackle, took a chance on a talented but underperforming CB in Cook and have a buttload of draft picks to spend. They are sitting pretty damn well right now.

We lost two games last year by the slimmest of margins that would have been the difference between homefield advantage in the playoffs, and with that likely a SB appearance. Last years NFCCG and the SB the year before could have had very different outcomes if we had enough depth at WR that teams didn't know exactly who our QB was targeting on the final play of the game with all but complete certainty.

Coulda, shouda, woulda. In the end, often times it comes down to luck and a bounce of the ball. There's 32 teams in the NFL, only one can win the Superbowl, the 49ers did well enough to win two tough games on the road, they nearly won in Seattle, a place where it is damn near impossible to win games. Instead of panicking like you are, the organization has continued to pound away and be smart, make smart moves, get good value players, plus they are loaded with picks for the draft. This is a team that is smartly building for their future, not trying to blow their wad on a one season Hail Mary.

If now isn't the time to improve our depth/starters at the key positions that could get us over the hump to win a SB, I don't know when will be. We will likely lose more key players in the next year or two, as we can't resign everyone. Now is the time to make an immediate push with players on 1-3 year deals. Then, we may have to reaload in a couple years, but by then we will know something about all these young guys on the roster and can make better decisions about how they factor into the future instead of banking on them to be the answer when they are still unknown commodities and could cost us our SB window.

This "Superbowl window" rhetoric is absolute BS to the highest degree. What Baalke is doing is building this team into a perennial contender, losers worry about "Superbowl windows." Successful organizations continue to compete. Do you ever hear people talk about New England's "Superbowl window." They're basically in the hunt every single year.


In the NFL, if you don't develop your younger guys, if you don't play them, you won't win, that is what will close your "window." Based on how the salary cap is set up, you need young players and a lot of them to contribute to your team, its the only way you can hold a quality team together for any amount of time. As guys walk, you replace them with cheaper younger players and keep building your team into the future.


By the same token, any free agent you sign is "an unknown commodity", you don't know how they will play on your team, how they will fit into your system...etc. Every year we have huge free agent signings that turn out to be massive busts. When a rookie busts, you just wasted a draft pick, when a pricy veteran busts, now you are screwed when it comes to the salary cap.

"Not sure who took a leak into your breakfast cereal or what gloomy cloud has been following you around all over the place but you are being insanely negative. Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/177689-reason-and-emotion/page4/#A6o2P9fEEcv7Ml7k.99"

Easy big fella. You are my homie, but this stuff could encourage a rash reaction. I know you mean it in a sense to snap him out of a funk, but let's keep the balance.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
From a salary cap perspective, It makes little sense to lock up or tie up future cap dollars on potential FA busts. No way in gods green earth would I have paid the money Revis wanted/Got from New England. Same for Denver to Ware and Talib. They did get a steal in Ward's deal. I like our foundation. We have a core guys set, Kap is the future, it just is a matter of when the deal gets done, probably June, is which why we designated Rogers a june 1 cut.

We usually hit in the draft, Kap, Aldon, Reid all 1st rd picks, Tank, Lattimore with so much potential. Add in past picks like Bruce Miller who was a college DE/OLB, who has converted to FB, and had many draft guys saying "WTF?" and we proved them all wrong.

I don't want to be the same regime that signed Jonas Jennings for 35M+, or gave Nate Clements $46M over 4 yrs, in which he was an average CB. Our best FA signing in years was 2008 Justin Smith. Long time Bengal, found a home in the bay area, and yes thanks to Nolan.

We love to add low risk players, on low-end deals. Bethea's deal is essentially a 2yr deal, maybe 1yr if he doesn't work out. His 2015 base is guaranteed for only injury, if healthy, and he bombs, we cut him, and we are fine. Not saying that happens, as I have faith in Harbs and Baalke when it comes to bringing in talent.

People cry over Chris Cook. Well he isnt the worst CB, he isnt the best CB, but he didn't cost much, I believe minimum salary. He won't hurt the cap if he makes it. Maiocco is right, if he makes it awesome, if he doesn't no harm done. I don't buy into giving any player more money then they are either worth, or what the market dictates. Which leads me to believe we will choose between Mike Iupati and Michael Crabtree. the WR market is so low right now, only big deal was Decker's a litte over $7M a year deal. If we can get Crabs on a $8M a year deal, sign him to an extension asap. I wanted Sanders, but $5M a year is too much, thats almost Boldin money, and he isn't anywhere near as good as Boldin. Plus his agent is a giant D-bag.

People, you need to calm down, like George Lopez said, and Baalke should say it to, "I Got dis".

I agree with you, yours is the Reason of the title, while others who frown and get mad cause we didn't make "A Splash" are the emotion. Chris is just getting an experiencced guy in here, who if , lucky or thru skill of our DB coach can get him to look like Carlos in his first year. If not no big kill to the organization, Revis, and NA, and others can hurt an organization for years to come. Like I said in my own posts, these big signings are more miss than hit.

Just because they were a hit with one club, doesn't mean they will be with another club. If Carlos and Brown fall or fall flat, it'll be just another reason to say told you so, look at goldson, he is not doing as well as when he was a niner. This makes the niners an attravtive stop to revitalize ones career and gives another source for players whether it is a stop gap measure or long term measure as Justin Smith has turned out. It is however, just another piece or way the FO builds the team w/o being reliant on only one method.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
People in general love to find blame in someone, anyone in particular.

- If we don't win it all it's because Baalke, Harbaugh or both so FIRE THEM BOTH!
- If we don't sign "names" it's Baalke's fault or it's because of the GM/coach "split" so fire one or the other!!!!
- If something doesn't get done the way WE think it should have, so-and-so SUCKS!!!!!

Neither life or football works that way.

- Sometimes teams have a plan that isn't conducive to signing names who want big bucks
- Sometimes players visit teams to solely use them as leverage
- Sometimes a team is deep enough that they really don't have to over-pay for guys whose performance isn't commensurate to the money they want
- Sometimes you can have a great plan, great coaches, a great GM, great players and plenty of draft picks and STILL not win it all

Yes, sometimes individuals eff up, but things are almost never that simple/certain. However, people want and NEED simplicity/certainty so we make up these stories in our head about why things didn't go the way we believe they should have, why so-and-so is to blame for the failure and why if we just do this-thus-and-so, everything will be better. It's b******t, but we tell ourselves (and others) these stories all the time.

Yes.

There's people who truly don't seem to have any appreciation for how good this team has been, what a heck of a job both Harbaugh and Baalke have done. A fan of a team that hasn't had the same success lately would love to have seen some of the playoff runs that this team has had. No they haven't won the Superbowl, but as long as Baalke and Harbaugh are around, I have no doubt that this team will always be within striking distance. If you take a fan of the Dallas 8-8's, you don't think they'd trade what their team has been doing lately for success that the 49er have had, even without a Superbowl?

The two of you have stated what I have wanted to say brilliantly. I am continuously amazed how short peoples memories are, ie, how far we have come in such a short time. Another is how quickly some develop grossly inflated and unrealistic expectations for the team as though we have a divine right as the 49ers Dynasty to hoist the Lombardi every other year or so as we did in the 80's. Anything short of a superbowl win is tantamount to failure and just cause to start "self cannibalizing" the roster and management, an apt metaphor George Seifert used to describe this semi-neurosis.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
From a salary cap perspective, It makes little sense to lock up or tie up future cap dollars on potential FA busts. No way in gods green earth would I have paid the money Revis wanted/Got from New England. Same for Denver to Ware and Talib. They did get a steal in Ward's deal. I like our foundation. We have a core guys set, Kap is the future, it just is a matter of when the deal gets done, probably June, is which why we designated Rogers a june 1 cut.

We usually hit in the draft, Kap, Aldon, Reid all 1st rd picks, Tank, Lattimore with so much potential. Add in past picks like Bruce Miller who was a college DE/OLB, who has converted to FB, and had many draft guys saying "WTF?" and we proved them all wrong.

I don't want to be the same regime that signed Jonas Jennings for 35M+, or gave Nate Clements $46M over 4 yrs, in which he was an average CB. Our best FA signing in years was 2008 Justin Smith. Long time Bengal, found a home in the bay area, and yes thanks to Nolan.

We love to add low risk players, on low-end deals. Bethea's deal is essentially a 2yr deal, maybe 1yr if he doesn't work out. His 2015 base is guaranteed for only injury, if healthy, and he bombs, we cut him, and we are fine. Not saying that happens, as I have faith in Harbs and Baalke when it comes to bringing in talent.

People cry over Chris Cook. Well he isnt the worst CB, he isnt the best CB, but he didn't cost much, I believe minimum salary. He won't hurt the cap if he makes it. Maiocco is right, if he makes it awesome, if he doesn't no harm done. I don't buy into giving any player more money then they are either worth, or what the market dictates. Which leads me to believe we will choose between Mike Iupati and Michael Crabtree. the WR market is so low right now, only big deal was Decker's a litte over $7M a year deal. If we can get Crabs on a $8M a year deal, sign him to an extension asap. I wanted Sanders, but $5M a year is too much, thats almost Boldin money, and he isn't anywhere near as good as Boldin. Plus his agent is a giant D-bag.

People, you need to calm down, like George Lopez said, and Baalke should say it to, "I Got dis".

this is a great point you bring up AB. As an extension to that, this draft is extremely deep at the WR position, a lot of teams will wrap up their needs this off season in the draft at the position which could really benefit the 49ers in the Crabtree situation by shrinking the market with less teams vying for receivers next off season.

There is this axiom of two lions. It is about two generals, an older experience one and a younger general. As they watched two enemies fighting it out. The young young lion general wanted to rush in wipe them both out. To which the older one said no lets wait, but we the power to wipe them both out said the young one. Yes, said the old one, but we will can, but we will take masive loses and weaken our selves and leaving ourselves open to other vultures lying in wait. Then, when one of the two fighting parties had gained the upper hand, but was exhausted, did the old lion tell the young lion he could attack as he pleased. Both enemies were thus routed, the warlord had gained both territories w/o suffering heavy loses. Thus making his empire bigger and stronger in one swoop.

That is what Baalke is doing and why we are waiting. People forget, we can still get players that may benefir us after the draft as teams cut and release players as they continue to make moves. Some because they got someone in the draft others as they also to get younger. Nobody thought much of the Dorsey deal, but it turned out all right. Go after so called busts, hoping you can do a reclamation along the lines of Carlos, Dorsey, Alec, etc and hope it was because the other guy didn't know what they were doing. Hope that the player was not in the right scheme but will be with you.

Originally posted by WildBill:
There is this axiom of two lions. It is about two generals, an older experience one and a younger general. As they watched two enemies fighting it out. The young young lion general wanted to rush in wipe them both out. To which the older one said no lets wait, but we the power to wipe them both out said the young one. Yes, said the old one, but we will can, but we will take masive loses and weaken our selves and leaving ourselves open to other vultures lying in wait. Then, when one of the two fighting parties had gained the upper hand, but was exhausted, did the old lion tell the young lion he could attack as he pleased. Both enemies were thus routed, the warlord had gained both territories w/o suffering heavy loses. Thus making his empire bigger and stronger in one swoop.

That is what Baalke is doing and why we are waiting. People forget, we can still get players that may benefir us after the draft as teams cut and release players as they continue to make moves. Some because they got someone in the draft others as they also to get younger. Nobody thought much of the Dorsey deal, but it turned out all right. Go after so called busts, hoping you can do a reclamation along the lines of Carlos, Dorsey, Alec, etc and hope it was because the other guy didn't know what they were doing. Hope that the player was not in the right scheme but will be with you.

The story of youth and experience.

Fro, you are one of the more "fun" posters on this board. But this post in my humble opinion completely misses the point of the future of the niners. It's not free agents versus the draft or even a judicious blend of the two as to whether we can win a superbowl. It's whether we have the right strategy overall as an organization to win a superbowl.
The 9ers can have the best roster in all of football and still not win a superbowl. The 9ers are not yet where the bills under marv levy were. 4 superbowl appearances but no ring. A missed field goal away or in the niners case a missed pass play away. NO RING! I believe that the niners where a better team than the seahawks last year, but the seahawks won a ring. WHY? Because last year the seahawks had a better vision of how to win than the 9ers. How - by cheating! Seriously lets give them full credit as it won a ring! they believed that by rushing the passer while holding with the corner backs they could play a defense that would give them the ultimate advantage. IT WORKED. They built their team to do just that. it wasn't a one year thing or a fluke. the seahawk organization went "all in" on this way of play!
Now, why are the 9ers just short of a ring? I have used the seahawks as an example of an organization that followed their vision but I could have used bill walsh and the WCO as an example of an organization that went "all in" for a style also. I believe the niners are fighting a uphill fight with their style/vision. The run first offence with a great defence plan for a ring has been tried many times. The bears under Ditka and the ravens with dilfer at qb pulled it off. but that plan has failed more times than not. See marty schottnehiemr or chuck knox careers or ,yes, even the 49ers. To go back to the bills under marv levy they lost because they didn't bring a good enough defence. See the Broncos last year.
So to finish up with my observation, the 9ers organization are trying to win the hard way. until they try to put a offence on the field that has a different philosophy then they now have I believe we are more likely than not gonna be close but no cigar. I actually think the eagles under chip Kelly are more likely to win a super bowl before the 9ers do because they are trying a new plan. whether they can get a defense remains to be seen.
It's not free agents or the draft. It's the whole organization's plan/vision that's really in question.

Originally posted by Kezar1965:
Fro, you are one of the more "fun" posters on this board. But this post in my humble opinion completely misses the point of the future of the niners. It's not free agents versus the draft or even a judicious blend of the two as to whether we can win a superbowl. It's whether we have the right strategy overall as an organization to win a superbowl.
The 9ers can have the best roster in all of football and still not win a superbowl. The 9ers are not yet where the bills under marv levy were. 4 superbowl appearances but no ring. A missed field goal away or in the niners case a missed pass play away. NO RING! I believe that the niners where a better team than the seahawks last year, but the seahawks won a ring. WHY? Because last year the seahawks had a better vision of how to win than the 9ers. How - by cheating! Seriously lets give them full credit as it won a ring! they believed that by rushing the passer while holding with the corner backs they could play a defense that would give them the ultimate advantage. IT WORKED. They built their team to do just that. it wasn't a one year thing or a fluke. the seahawk organization went "all in" on this way of play!
Now, why are the 9ers just short of a ring? I have used the seahawks as an example of an organization that followed their vision but I could have used bill walsh and the WCO as an example of an organization that went "all in" for a style also. I believe the niners are fighting a uphill fight with their style/vision. The run first offence with a great defence plan for a ring has been tried many times. The bears under Ditka and the ravens with dilfer at qb pulled it off. but that plan has failed more times than not. See marty schottnehiemr or chuck knox careers or ,yes, even the 49ers. To go back to the bills under marv levy they lost because they didn't bring a good enough defence. See the Broncos last year.
So to finish up with my observation, the 9ers organization are trying to win the hard way. until they try to put a offence on the field that has a different philosophy then they now have I believe we are more likely than not gonna be close but no cigar. I actually think the eagles under chip Kelly are more likely to win a super bowl before the 9ers do because they are trying a new plan. whether they can get a defense remains to be seen.
It's not free agents or the draft. It's the whole organization's plan/vision that's really in question.

A very good post if I must say so. However, I don't think it is necessary to make an extreme change of offensive system, just tweek it. Like I said, screens, checkoffs to the running back, 3 wr set by making guys like LMJ and Hunter line up in the slot, shift back to rb and vice versa. Or actually put out 3 wr where they all go out and sometime not and instead send the rb out and keep the wr in to chip block, thus taking out a DB out o the pic. Letting him be the ck down. Like I said, just a few tweeks here and there to get over the hump, no drastic change needed, but a tweek is needed some degree.

Originally posted by Kezar1965:
Fro, you are one of the more "fun" posters on this board. But this post in my humble opinion completely misses the point of the future of the niners. It's not free agents versus the draft or even a judicious blend of the two as to whether we can win a superbowl. It's whether we have the right strategy overall as an organization to win a superbowl.
The 9ers can have the best roster in all of football and still not win a superbowl. The 9ers are not yet where the bills under marv levy were. 4 superbowl appearances but no ring. A missed field goal away or in the niners case a missed pass play away. NO RING! I believe that the niners where a better team than the seahawks last year, but the seahawks won a ring. WHY? Because last year the seahawks had a better vision of how to win than the 9ers. How - by cheating! Seriously lets give them full credit as it won a ring! they believed that by rushing the passer while holding with the corner backs they could play a defense that would give them the ultimate advantage. IT WORKED. They built their team to do just that. it wasn't a one year thing or a fluke. the seahawk organization went "all in" on this way of play!
Now, why are the 9ers just short of a ring? I have used the seahawks as an example of an organization that followed their vision but I could have used bill walsh and the WCO as an example of an organization that went "all in" for a style also. I believe the niners are fighting a uphill fight with their style/vision. The run first offence with a great defence plan for a ring has been tried many times. The bears under Ditka and the ravens with dilfer at qb pulled it off. but that plan has failed more times than not. See marty schottnehiemr or chuck knox careers or ,yes, even the 49ers. To go back to the bills under marv levy they lost because they didn't bring a good enough defence. See the Broncos last year.
So to finish up with my observation, the 9ers organization are trying to win the hard way. until they try to put a offence on the field that has a different philosophy then they now have I believe we are more likely than not gonna be close but no cigar. I actually think the eagles under chip Kelly are more likely to win a super bowl before the 9ers do because they are trying a new plan. whether they can get a defense remains to be seen.
It's not free agents or the draft. It's the whole organization's plan/vision that's really in question.

You have pissed all over my attempt to deal with this issue by introducing the second great calamity of our fan base: the philosophy of our offense.





I.

LOVE.

IT!







Damn good post, sir. I do not agree, but sir, I respect the way you went about your business.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by TexasNiner:
You and I just see things very differently. As is the case with many fans, and the point of this thread. For example: Reid may eventually be an upgrade over Goldson. I sure hope he becomes the next Ronnie Lott. At this point though, it's basically a push. Hopefully, he continues to improve and it isn't a case of a solid player not being asked to do too much by a veteran team.

Reid is already an upgrade over Goldson, not eventually. I saw a player that has smarter, shows better awareness and didn't have the stupid brainfart's that Goldson was infamous for. It was evident early on with the better communications between him and Whitner. Did things go perfectly, no, but he's already a better performer overall.

This year will tell a lot as he is now the only starter returning in the secondary. Same kind of deal with Bethea vs. Whitner and our two new starters at CB. If Brock was so good, why wasn't he starting over T. Brown and Rogers when everyone was healthy

Sometimes it takes an injury for a guy to get a look and be given a chance, once he gets it, he runs away with the job, is it really that unusual? Why didn't Kaepernick start over Alex Smith from the beginning of 2012 instead of after he was injured? Injuries can be opportunities for guys to show what they can do and Brock made the most of his opportunity.

It's nice to assume Brock and Cully will be as good or better, but both have been on the team for several years, and neither have shown that they are significantly better than what we have had. At best, they are hopefully the same.

Several years? Culliver played in 2 seasons and looked like one of the best CB's in the NFL in his 2nd season, constantly rated as one of the best in the NFL throughout the 2012 regular season. Brock has been a ballhawking cornerback that this team has not had in a long time, Culliver was improving as a young player and he'll get the chance to continue that in 2014.

So, Eric Wright (hopefully), becomes the the Cully/Brock nickle guy and Cook is the Wright low risk/high reward project. Same kind of deal as last year, just less experience, less depth and we are just hoping for equal or better results and that players with poor performance and/or injury issues last year bounce back.

You act as if there isn't a draft coming up where the 49ers will likely add to their CB depth. Brock and Culliver look to be solid as starters, if he wins the nickel job, then Wright is an experienced NFL starter who should do a good job. Bethea is a veteran, smart, experienced safety who won't get penalized the way that Whitner was and is a better tackler. Reid will hopefully take another step forward to become one of the very best safeties in the NFL.

We will see how Patton develops, but Baldwin seems worthless and has on two different teams. That you would mention him as part of the reason we wouldn't persue a vet startles me. He is camp fodder at best.

Rather take a shot on Baldwin developing than a random average veteran. The 49ers have have Crabtree and Boldin, they have their starters, they have a promising young player in Patton, now all they need is depth. Baldwin hasn't been much so far but once again, rather see him getting the opportunity than a guy who won't be around for more than a year or two. Patton certainly should be allowed to develop, if you look at teams like Green Bay and the Giants, they don't go out and blow money signing receivers from other teams. They consistently draft receivers, develop them, let them contribute and if they want more money, they let them walk and....next man up.

Skuta was solid, but we need better than that if we are going to compete for the SB, especially with arguably our best player on D out for at least half the year. Again, to me, this seems like a guy who had a career year benefiting from the system and players around him, not someone you can depend on year in and year out to provide championship level play. And we are taking the same kind of risk with all the young guys, especially the ones coming off injuries.

The 49ers are already competing for the Superbowl, you talk as if this a 7-9 team not a team that has been to 3 straight Conference Championship's and a Superbowl.


For a backup OLB, a guy who was only expected to be a special team's performer, Skuta did tremendously well and was actually effective as a starter. He did a damn good job, not sure how you can argue otherwise. In the modern NFL, no your backup OLB isn't going to be the same as your Pro-Bowl, looking like a future HOF, beastly monster OLB. Skuta as a backup is about as good as it gets.

I hope as much as anyone that they become all pros. But to assume so is asinine. Banking on players with little to no experience and injury issues is a very tough sell to me.

Yes of course, don't develop your younger players, they are too risky, build the team through free agency, because that is how you become successful in the NFL, go out there and sign errrrybody. It has worked so well for Dallas, Washington, Philadelphia, Miami, Tampa Bay...etc.

The only moves, other than Boldin, which was an excellent move, we have made, were basically when we had no other choice. When we had NO kicker, we signed a kicker, when we had NO NT, we signed Dorsey, when we had NO safety and already a very young guy on one side, we signed Bethea.

So you mean when the 49ers have a legitimate need, the front office actually goes and gets it taken care of that? That's just crazy talk.

To me, retaining T. Brown or getting Thurman or getting a solid vet as a 3rd WR, or getting depth/upgrades on the dline should have been a priority, not a luxury. We are not that dominant of a team. And we don't seem to be trending in the right direction. We didn't necessarily need to do ALL of those things, or to get one of the biggest names out there, but to bank on the draft or our corps of young/injured reserve players to fill all those needs seems overly optimistic, especially when it seems the gap between what we want to pay and what contracts are being signed for are nominally different.

Why do you need a "solid vet" as a 3rd WR? I think Patton is fine in that spot and should get all the chances to perform, as with other young receivers they might add in the draft. The only thing you do by signing some average free agent off the street is to delay the development of your own young players. I'm sure for the right price the 49ers would have been interested to add someone but guys were either overpriced or not worth the time. Had Brown accepted the 3 year/10 million deal he was offered, he would be a 49er. His issue is that he didn't want to play nickelback and assumed that he could get more taking a "prove it" deal with a lousy team where he could be a starter so he hopefully could get a huge deal at age 30. He doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed.

We seem to be willing to pay around $3 mil a year. Contracts are being signed for around $3.5 to 4 mil a year on 1 to 3 years deals. If we had to go from 3 to 4 mil a year to get it done to shore up one of these key areas, to me, that seems well worth it. I have much more confidence in a vet that has proven they can do it at the NFL level, then on a rookie or young player with little to no experience to be the difference maker we need to get over the hump.

They have a TOTAL cap space of about $4 million. $4 million, that means money needed to sign rookies as well. Not sure where you're getting this fantasy of them signing like a dozen different players. They took care of their need at strong safety, acquired a swing tackle, took a chance on a talented but underperforming CB in Cook and have a buttload of draft picks to spend. They are sitting pretty damn well right now.

We lost two games last year by the slimmest of margins that would have been the difference between homefield advantage in the playoffs, and with that likely a SB appearance. Last years NFCCG and the SB the year before could have had very different outcomes if we had enough depth at WR that teams didn't know exactly who our QB was targeting on the final play of the game with all but complete certainty.

Coulda, shouda, woulda. In the end, often times it comes down to luck and a bounce of the ball. There's 32 teams in the NFL, only one can win the Superbowl, the 49ers did well enough to win two tough games on the road, they nearly won in Seattle, a place where it is damn near impossible to win games. Instead of panicking like you are, the organization has continued to pound away and be smart, make smart moves, get good value players, plus they are loaded with picks for the draft. This is a team that is smartly building for their future, not trying to blow their wad on a one season Hail Mary.

If now isn't the time to improve our depth/starters at the key positions that could get us over the hump to win a SB, I don't know when will be. We will likely lose more key players in the next year or two, as we can't resign everyone. Now is the time to make an immediate push with players on 1-3 year deals. Then, we may have to reaload in a couple years, but by then we will know something about all these young guys on the roster and can make better decisions about how they factor into the future instead of banking on them to be the answer when they are still unknown commodities and could cost us our SB window.

This "Superbowl window" rhetoric is absolute BS to the highest degree. What Baalke is doing is building this team into a perennial contender, losers worry about "Superbowl windows." Successful organizations continue to compete. Do you ever hear people talk about New England's "Superbowl window." They're basically in the hunt every single year.


In the NFL, if you don't develop your younger guys, if you don't play them, you won't win, that is what will close your "window." Based on how the salary cap is set up, you need young players and a lot of them to contribute to your team, its the only way you can hold a quality team together for any amount of time. As guys walk, you replace them with cheaper younger players and keep building your team into the future.


By the same token, any free agent you sign is "an unknown commodity", you don't know how they will play on your team, how they will fit into your system...etc. Every year we have huge free agent signings that turn out to be massive busts. When a rookie busts, you just wasted a draft pick, when a pricy veteran busts, now you are screwed when it comes to the salary cap.

Suffice to say, you and I just see things very differently. There are a few things worth responding to that aren't just pure difference of opinion. First is that we have more than double that amount of salary cap room because we have Roger's salary coming off the books and second is that you want to compare spending any money on FAs and making deliberate efforts to shore up weakness on this team to what hapless franchises have done going nuts in free agency.

Time will tell if rooks and also rans coming off injuries will be enough to get us over the hump, but I have significant concerns that they won't be. I don't want us to be the Donovan McNabb/Andy Reid Eagles, and that seems to be the direction we are heading to me. Always a step behind the best teams in the league because we are too stubborn to believe that what we are doing isn't quite good enough, while others go out and take the extra steps needed.

We significantly disagree that proven vet, even a so called "average" one isn't a major upgrade over someone like Baldwin or relying on rookies or a young, virtual rookie coming off injuries to fill a key role on a SB caliber team. Sure we have a draft coming up. And it could be stellar, like 2011, or it could be a complete bust like 2012. Or somewhere in-between. I'd rather not bank on every critical need being filled in that draft when any player drafted is 50/50 at best to be able to compete in the NFL and there are proven NFL vets that might fill at least one or two of those needs.

And we also couldn't disagree more on the SB window. That is absolutely a real thing. Sure the Pats have been in contention for a while, but they haven't won one in 9 years. The Steve Young Niners were in constant contention, but until they went all in, they couldn't get over the hump. We don't know for sure if Kap will improve or regress over the next few years, or even if he, Crabtree, Iupati or even Harbaugh for that matter will be on the team a few years from now. It's certainly not impossible, especially if we give Kap a big contract, that in a few years, most of our key players that got us here could be gone. Crabs could sign elsewhere, Boldin may retire, VD will be 32-33, and could either be gone or less effective. Willis, Staley, Brooks, are all going to be in their 30s. At what point do we need to press to fill the gaps between SB champs and contenders?

I am not saying we needed to sign anyone in particular, or that the off season as been a "bust". It's what, 5-6 days old? There's plenty of time and still some decent players unsigned. Plus there will be cuts from other teams, possible trades, and we will see what the draft yields. But, so far, I don't see us getting better, just maintaining. And in the NFL, if you stay the same, you are falling behind, because someone around you is getting better. We are so damn close to being an absolutely dominant team that has a chance to win multiple SBs, I'd just like us to make the little extra push to go from legit contender to truly elite, so that the SB goes through us. And I don't think we have done that.

Originally posted by WildBill:
I agree with you, yours is the Reason of the title, while others who frown and get mad cause we didn't make "A Splash" are the emotion. Chris is just getting an experiencced guy in here, who if , lucky or thru skill of our DB coach can get him to look like Carlos in his first year. If not no big kill to the organization, Revis, and NA, and others can hurt an organization for years to come. Like I said in my own posts, these big signings are more miss than hit.

Just because they were a hit with one club, doesn't mean they will be with another club. If Carlos and Brown fall or fall flat, it'll be just another reason to say told you so, look at goldson, he is not doing as well as when he was a niner. This makes the niners an attravtive stop to revitalize ones career and gives another source for players whether it is a stop gap measure or long term measure as Justin Smith has turned out. It is however, just another piece or way the FO builds the team w/o being reliant on only one method.

Definitely. Nnamdi turned out to be a terrible signing. Carlos was good his 1st year, and somewhat he second year, but he wasn't the same this year. Brown is similar to Carlos. Age is a concern, which is why I believe we valued Brock over him. Just as good as Brown, and younger. Cully I believe will be a good/great CB for us. I hope he has a great 2014, so we can get him extended. Would be nice to get him back on a similar deal as Brock.