2014 Team Needs - Updates

Seriously, dreamer, you jest. When he first stopped here, he had the shortest arms you ever saw going across the middle, caused huge discontent, never came close to being a starting WR on a decent team and then, thankfully, moved on. cc reminded it was 2003, but it seems like it was yesterday...he was that bad. Maybe it was before your time but if he lands here, even for 4 weeks I will be pizzed. His nickname in the day was "Miss Lloyd" as he apparently didn't like being in a contact sport. And, believe me, the name fit.

Oh, besides everything else, he was awful.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Seriously, dreamer, you jest. When he first stopped here, he had the shortest arms you ever saw going across the middle, caused huge discontent, never came close to being a starting WR on a decent team and then, thankfully, moved on. cc reminded it was 2003, but it seems like it was yesterday...he was that bad. Maybe it was before your time but if he lands here, even for 4 weeks I will be pizzed. His nickname in the day was "Miss Lloyd" as he apparently didn't like being in a contact sport. And, believe me, the name fit.

Oh, besides everything else, he was awful.

Well said! Those who saw some glimmer of NFL talent from this guy in Den or NE were soon disappointed. The niners do not need to recycle guys who didn't work out. Roto world says they are interested...I certainly hope not...though if they can turn this guy into an NFL receiver I will have to totally revise my opinion of the receiver coaching.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Seriously, dreamer, you jest. When he first stopped here, he had the shortest arms you ever saw going across the middle, caused huge discontent, never came close to being a starting WR on a decent team and then, thankfully, moved on. cc reminded it was 2003, but it seems like it was yesterday...he was that bad. Maybe it was before your time but if he lands here, even for 4 weeks I will be pizzed. His nickname in the day was "Miss Lloyd" as he apparently didn't like being in a contact sport. And, believe me, the name fit.

Oh, besides everything else, he was awful.

Well said! Those who saw some glimmer of NFL talent from this guy in Den or NE were soon disappointed. The niners do not need to recycle guys who didn't work out. Roto world says they are interested...I certainly hope not...though if they can turn this guy into an NFL receiver I will have to totally revise my opinion of the receiver coaching.

Yup. Even in his prime, he was jumping around from team to team. He's more trouble than he's worth. He's not even that great of a player. Out of the league last year for a reason.

Drivers, baby sitters, therapists, and expensive escorts.

Originally posted by jreff22:
Drivers, baby sitters, therapists, and expensive escorts.

And a dorm where nobody is allowed to leave the facility until their contract is up...with plenty of hall monitors.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

RBs? they have been so underused and misused, that we need Coach H to decide what the heck he is going to do with LMJ and Hunter( who I think splits time this yr with frank to keep him fresh). Our RBs are just an afterthought and are given short shrift in the O...a huge, massive mistake IMO. So no Rbs either until JH, or maybe this roman, get their act together and use the talent we have...which as noted has been ridiculously underused. Don't add another RB who won't be used either. So no on RBs.

I think one of the reasons LMJ is underutilized is both Frank Gore and Hunter are doing a great job as our two headed RB monster. Tough for a talented LMJ to break into that rotation. Also, I think Hunter is a stronger inside runner than LMJ. Now LMJ has to deal with Lattimore. I think we're set at RB and we just need Kaep to utilize them better.

I happen to think that the drop in RB Yards per Carry from 2012 to 2013 is due in part to a sub par center play. In 2012, Goodwin was able to free Gore to run up the middle on short yardage plays, in 2013 those middle runs against strong defenses disappeared for the most part. RB dive plays key on the center position to control that middle, and being successful there really helps open up the off tackle play. I'd *love* for the 49ers to draft a center that is powerful, mobile, and quick! Our RB's will be set for the rest of their careers (with the other O Line positions so deep and strong) if that happens.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

RBs? they have been so underused and misused, that we need Coach H to decide what the heck he is going to do with LMJ and Hunter( who I think splits time this yr with frank to keep him fresh). Our RBs are just an afterthought and are given short shrift in the O...a huge, massive mistake IMO. So no Rbs either until JH, or maybe this roman, get their act together and use the talent we have...which as noted has been ridiculously underused. Don't add another RB who won't be used either. So no on RBs.

I think one of the reasons LMJ is underutilized is both Frank Gore and Hunter are doing a great job as our two headed RB monster. Tough for a talented LMJ to break into that rotation. Also, I think Hunter is a stronger inside runner than LMJ. Now LMJ has to deal with Lattimore. I think we're set at RB and we just need Kaep to utilize them better.

I happen to think that the drop in RB Yards per Carry from 2012 to 2013 is due in part to a sub par center play. In 2012, Goodwin was able to free Gore to run up the middle on short yardage plays, in 2013 those middle runs against strong defenses disappeared for the most part. RB dive plays key on the center position to control that middle, and being successful there really helps open up the off tackle play. I'd *love* for the 49ers to draft a center that is powerful, mobile, and quick! Our RB's will be set for the rest of their careers (with the other O Line positions so deep and strong) if that happens.

It's a very good point esp. re: Frank b/c his whole game is between the tackles so if Goodwin is getting tossed around in there, we're done. I'm looking forwatrd to Kilgore and Looney fighting it out in there this pre season (although Kilgore seems to have the edge given his contract extension).

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
And I like NC's thinking on SS , again for reason already stated...

Uh oh, check it out. It's a done deal now. Donatell signs his LT contract AND gets his man with the top overall pick:

--Calvin Pryor (Louisville): Formal interview with Harbaugh and secondary coach Ed Donatell at NFL Scouting Combine.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Drivers, baby sitters, therapists, and expensive escorts.

And a dorm where nobody is allowed to leave the facility until their contract is up...with plenty of hall monitors.

Cully needs to live there.

As for misuse/underuse, I guess I can sort of understand Coach H's situation. QB still not used to playing pro style. OC doesn't trust QB unless he picks out one receiver for him (AR) or a PS play where the receiver is already picked out by kap before he goes to LOS. Then, you have RBs, and LMJ and Hunter both (frank too) who were all meant for receiving passes, but maybe that would be felt to be too much for kap to handle.

Problem with that reasoning is that the RBs could have, really should have, made life easier for kap, not the reverse...as bailouts for when things go south.

Hence we are back to square one with OC not really seeing everything that has to be integrated, WRs, TEs, RBs...and a HC who gives roman a pass as to what he wants to call. Again, I end up with roman as the problem child, not really having a good feel for what he is supposed to be doing, altho he understands QBs throw the ball and RBs run it. With roman we be uck-fayed. IMO. Honestly I wish that weren't the case, but as I have posted before, let the guy who has actually played QB for 15 yrs in the NFL and coached successfully elsewhere...let him call his own plays. They aren't going to be worse than roman's and I would bet, considerably better.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

RBs? they have been so underused and misused, that we need Coach H to decide what the heck he is going to do with LMJ and Hunter( who I think splits time this yr with frank to keep him fresh). Our RBs are just an afterthought and are given short shrift in the O...a huge, massive mistake IMO. So no Rbs either until JH, or maybe this roman, get their act together and use the talent we have...which as noted has been ridiculously underused. Don't add another RB who won't be used either. So no on RBs.

I think one of the reasons LMJ is underutilized is both Frank Gore and Hunter are doing a great job as our two headed RB monster. Tough for a talented LMJ to break into that rotation. Also, I think Hunter is a stronger inside runner than LMJ. Now LMJ has to deal with Lattimore. I think we're set at RB and we just need Kaep to utilize them better.

I happen to think that the drop in RB Yards per Carry from 2012 to 2013 is due in part to a sub par center play. In 2012, Goodwin was able to free Gore to run up the middle on short yardage plays, in 2013 those middle runs against strong defenses disappeared for the most part. RB dive plays key on the center position to control that middle, and being successful there really helps open up the off tackle play. I'd *love* for the 49ers to draft a center that is powerful, mobile, and quick! Our RB's will be set for the rest of their careers (with the other O Line positions so deep and strong) if that happens.

It's a very good point esp. re: Frank b/c his whole game is between the tackles so if Goodwin is getting tossed around in there, we're done. I'm looking forwatrd to Kilgore and Looney fighting it out in there this pre season (although Kilgore seems to have the edge given his contract extension).

I hope they draft a center early. I wouldn't be mad if we used a 2nd or 3rd on one. The whole offensive line has the potential to be tops in the league if they play to their potential. A top center paired with Iupaiti, Davis, Boone and Staley looks very appealing.

I think the one thing that stood out to me this offseason was that we're getting younger at key positions that didn't have the most talented players to begin with. Now I'm not saying rogers brown goodwin and whitner were bad but I don't think they will be getting any better going forward. I know your not one who's been high on whitner NC but he did have a great year last year. Still he is suspect in coverage.

Goodwin is near the end of his career and has never been considered a top center in the nfl anyway. We should be much improved on the offensive line next season if Iupati comes back healthy. Iupati struggled last season when he was healthy.

Although Rogers is good in run support he still gets burned way too much for my liking. Brown may have struggled a little last year but he was still a good player. Culliver pre-injury had more talent than Brown or Rogers. Now he faces a tough recovery from rehabbing that acl as well as hit and run charges. Still don't write him off. We're sure to take at least 1 CB in the 1st 3 rounds who will probably have more potential than both rogers and brown.

Bethea can cover more ground and is more of a ballhawk than Whitner IMO. So even though we lose some run-support in Rogers and Whitner we should get better in coverage. Sure we lose quite a bit of experience but if Donatel spl? got that much out of less talented players like Brock Whitner Rogers and Brown then I'll be excited to see what he could do with a secondary that will look like this... Bethea/Rookie/Reid Culliver/Brock/Rookie/Wright/Cook/Rookie.

We get considerably younger but still have quite of bit of experience as long as Culliver isn't suspended for too long.

This might be one of the offseasons where it's addition by subtraction. We lost the for lack of a better term "weak link" on offense in goodwin and rogers on defense.

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
RBs? they have been so underused and misused, that we need Coach H to decide what the heck he is going to do with LMJ and Hunter( who I think splits time this yr with frank to keep him fresh). Our RBs are just an afterthought and are given short shrift in the O...a huge, massive mistake IMO. So no Rbs either until JH, or maybe this roman, get their act together and use the talent we have...which as noted has been ridiculously underused. Don't add another RB who won't be used either. So no on RBs.

I think one of the reasons LMJ is underutilized is both Frank Gore and Hunter are doing a great job as our two headed RB monster. Tough for a talented LMJ to break into that rotation. Also, I think Hunter is a stronger inside runner than LMJ. Now LMJ has to deal with Lattimore. I think we're set at RB and we just need Kaep to utilize them better.

I happen to think that the drop in RB Yards per Carry from 2012 to 2013 is due in part to a sub par center play. In 2012, Goodwin was able to free Gore to run up the middle on short yardage plays, in 2013 those middle runs against strong defenses disappeared for the most part. RB dive plays key on the center position to control that middle, and being successful there really helps open up the off tackle play. I'd *love* for the 49ers to draft a center that is powerful, mobile, and quick! Our RB's will be set for the rest of their careers (with the other O Line positions so deep and strong) if that happens.

It's a very good point esp. re: Frank b/c his whole game is between the tackles so if Goodwin is getting tossed around in there, we're done. I'm looking forwatrd to Kilgore and Looney fighting it out in there this pre season (although Kilgore seems to have the edge given his contract extension).

I hope they draft a center early. I wouldn't be mad if we used a 2nd or 3rd on one. The whole offensive line has the potential to be tops in the league if they play to their potential. A top center paired with Iupaiti, Davis, Boone and Staley looks very appealing.

I think the one thing that stood out to me this offseason was that we're getting younger at key positions that didn't have the most talented players to begin with. Now I'm not saying rogers brown goodwin and whitner were bad but I don't think they will be getting any better going forward. I know your not one who's been high on whitner NC but he did have a great year last year. Still he is suspect in coverage.

Goodwin is near the end of his career and has never been considered a top center in the nfl anyway. We should be much improved on the offensive line next season if Iupati comes back healthy. Iupati struggled last season when he was healthy.

Although Rogers is good in run support he still gets burned way too much for my liking. Brown may have struggled a little last year but he was still a good player. Culliver pre-injury had more talent than Brown or Rogers. Now he faces a tough recovery from rehabbing that acl as well as hit and run charges. Still don't write him off. We're sure to take at least 1 CB in the 1st 3 rounds who will probably have more potential than both rogers and brown.

Bethea can cover more ground and is more of a ballhawk than Whitner IMO. So even though we lose some run-support in Rogers and Whitner we should get better in coverage. Sure we lose quite a bit of experience but if Donatel spl? got that much out of less talented players like Brock Whitner Rogers and Brown then I'll be excited to see what he could do with a secondary that will look like this... Bethea/Rookie/Reid Culliver/Brock/Rookie/Wright/Cook/Rookie.

We get considerably younger but still have quite of bit of experience as long as Culliver isn't suspended for too long.

This might be one of the offseasons where it's addition by subtraction. We lost the for lack of a better term "weak link" on offense in goodwin and rogers on defense.

This is exactly how I see it as well. With Goodwin, Whitner, Rogers and Brown, they had all maxed out on potential and all are up there is age so NOW is the time to move on (ala Walsh). Equally, we save a ton of $ on them that will allow us to keep players like CK, Aldon, Iupati and Crabtree (if we want) AND letting them walk has allowed us room to sign our own in Boldin, Brock, Miller, etc.

We forget that we've been grooming players behind the aforementioned for years. Now we'll have an epic battle in training camp between Kilgore and Looney at C (I'm sort of pulling for Looney as he has a nasty-streak to him and is bigger and stronger than Kilgore and he and Boone next to each other would make for a fiesty combination, no doubt). With the speed, physicality, athleticism, quickness and familiarity in our system with Brock, Culliver, Wright, Cox and Morris and an off season to train mentally/physically for an "actual" starting spot, CB should be really fun to watch. Brock's got the #1 locked down so all we need is to solidify the #2 as the #3-5 spots are already very good and will get better with two more blue-chip rookie CB's added from the draft. With the addition of Bethea and Cook (Swanson), it sure sounds like we'll play much more press and off-coverage and more single-high FS (Reid). This means, the scheme will be the most versatile it's ever been under Fangio b/c he now has the players to play BOTH ways. SS is already intact with Bethea and these younger, more veratile CB's (and Reid) will allow him to play to his strengths (closer to the LOS in run support and timely blitzes) plus we've got the draft picks to find a young S-in-training this year as well.

In short, we are younger, faster, stronger, much more physical and versatile and with experience in OUR system (this is huge). I'm happy the way FA shaped out, personally as we offered the older veterans very fair contracts to stay with us LT and they chose $ and to play for crappy teams. We'll add a few more weapons to the back end come draft day and probably immediately after it like we did with Brock (UDFA). Don't underestimate coaching and development. This alone allows Baalke to keep rotating in younger and cheaper players WITH more upside and playmaking ability (they just needed an open spot and a chance to develop slowly ON the field like how Brock/Cox/Culliver developed slowly as nickle/dime/slot CB's).

We have an internal farm system that's been developing players for three years now and to me, looking at that LONG list of players coming into their first/second years in our system (on the field), it's going to be very fun to see who's ready to take over certain positions, improve play by all through added/real competition and who will add key depth to an already-stacked roster. Who are we going to cut?

We may see a small drop-off in production at first d/t experience "on the field" as FT starters for 16+ games but I would imagine by year's end, we'll see a totally different secondary come the playoffs (our glaring weakness the past 3 years).

Baalke and this FO and with help from the coaching staff (input and developmemnt) have done a very fine job of managing this team for immediate and LT success IMHO. As to specific lack of areas of development, misses, improper or non-use of personnel, in-game calls, poor situational awareness, coaching, game-planning, injuries, refs, etc. this stuff can be talked about as well but re: addition-by-subtraction (at the right time) and solidfying our team needs, we're in great shape for years!

What a great summary NC, on the entire team. No question the F.O. has performed spectacularly. You did omit Qb, which I suppose means we are betting on kap, but somehow, I don't see that extension this yr. I think they want to see how he improves (reads, progressions)and progresses thru the yr. The athleticism and strength are all there. My guess is they wait to see how he picks up the stuff he needs to improve on. Having gabbert as backup doesn't fit with the quality of the rest of the team so I suspect we will see a qb in late draft or UDFA that JH or Trent knows a lot about. I still think gabbert was a draft pick incentive to use for trade. That means we will really need a good backup, but late, may be whistling past the graveyard. If we keep him then I think we get a career backup like a Flynn...but who knows.

Like you I see a spectacular FA season, getting rid of overpaid under producing guys, who we replace with younger more talented guys and at less money. And we have the picks to do it. Our weakest link, CB, now has the opportunity to become one of our stronger ones, depending on which CBs we take. We take one high for sure, and a second either high or mid rounds if TB and JH really like him. Addition by subtraction...that's us. Bethea for Whitner...that was a huge winner, esp in coverage.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
That is a classic, NC. "Baalke time, to get FA's on the cheap...". Couldn't be truer, however.

Right on que. NT is imploding over Brandon Lloyd, another "camp fodder" or "meh" or "mistake," etc. signing. This is nothing more than an insurance/competition signing. This is Baalke learning from last year's injury to Crabtree.

Yeah, NC, but Brandon Lloyd? holy smokes, that video of him ducking the pass says it all. Classic, truly classic