2013 - Week 6: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
I didn't think Brown had a very good game on D.

Thanks...for a "contract year" he's getting pwned quite a bit...I know, I know, our secondary was #2 in yards coming in BUT I find myself screaming at the huge cushions our smaller CB's are giving on 3rd and shorts (one lead to the 75-yard TD).

And how pathetic our CB's are at not getting their heads turned around in time (minus Brock, naturally)? Both Rogers and Brown can't time jump to save their lives...it's not that they are short/small but they can't seem to time jumps that makes it a real issue for us IMO. Brown, I don't think he even jumps anymore to be honest...think he just tries to stay within a couple yards in trail-mode and swipes at the ball blindly once the WR's body language demonstrates the ball is arriving.

RoGers made a nice play on a 3rd down stop though! Both Brown and Rogers play MUCH better down hill...rely very much on that front 7 providing consistent pressure. But if it's a 3rd and short, a jump ball or sideline or EZ corner route, f*ggetaboutit! I cringe...

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Fine post Marvin.

My 2 cents.

You're partially right on ST. KW just can't get any real yards on returns.

I didn't think Brown had a very good game on D.

Our 1st half offensive play calling sucked! Among other things, 3rd &16 and Robag calls a run - why?

Titans will be a tough game - they have a solid D.

IMO, the next 2 games is where Fangio should get our2 rookies some game experience. Dial at NT in obvious run situations and Tank to spell Ray Mac who wasn't his old self yesterday.

Lemonier is playing like a talented rookie. Some excellent plays some average plays. The more time he gets playing the better he'll be. Overrunning is a rookie mistake. And I'm sure we'll all agree - the talent is definitely there.

Classless move by the "fans" w/the wave.

Another classless move was Boone getting kicked in the face. Will the league hand down a fine for that???

Brown broke up a couple critical passes in the 4th quarter but he hasnt really been in the spotlight much this season. The wave was about as stupid a move this time as it was a couple years ago when fans were doing it when we were on offense. I believe Taamu from the cards will get a fine for the kck in boones face. I believe what drew the flag for boone on that play was after the kick boone retaliated off camera and thats why jim was so heated with boone about it. Alot of our penalties this season have been stupid retalitation penalties, although boones was retaliating on a player that retaliated. Boone slapped at Taamu for pinning him down after the play, Taamu kicked boone in the face in retalliation then boone retalliated off camera.

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
wasn't it to Miller?

I was pissed at kap until i saw that it was batted.

Originally posted by ChazBoner: wasn't it to Miller? I was pissed at kap until i saw that it was batted.


No not that one,that pass was intercepted(the pass to Miller),no look at the second possession in the red-zone after carlos rogers interception that put the niners in the red-zone, when Keap pass on 3rd down was battered down it was headed right for Baldwin and it he was waiting for the pass for a touchdown right on the goal line on the right side of the end-zone.

Originally posted by Marvin49:
1) Kap: CAREER regular season statline as a starter - 13 starts, 210 comp, 353 att, 59.49 comp%, 2821 yards, 7.99 YPA, 18 TDs, 8 INTs, 92.51 QB Rating. This game really to me symbolized the problem with the 49ers WR corps. Its not ALL on them because Kap has his part to play as well, but it really illustrated the problem. Kap opened the game 2 of 7. You read that and think, "wow, he sucked". If you watch the game tho you will see that the ball is delivered on target but that the defender is able to knock it away because there is no separation. Now you can make the argument that perhaps he should have progressed to a different read and not tried to stick it in there, but all we've heard all offseason is how Boldin is the type of receiver where you throw him the ball even when he isn't wide open and he'll make the play. Kap is tryin man. LOL. The INT was tipped and would likely have been a TD if it hadn't been...but you still have to put that on Kap for throwing the ball low enough to get tipped. You also have to give the Cards credit for being pretty damn good on D.

2) Reid: DAMN! He missed ANOTHER tackle!!. Sorry...couldn't help myself. Reid is everything we had hoped and more. He's in his 6th NFL start and he is already playing mindgames with vet QBs. He's playing MUCH more confidently and aggressively than he did in preseason when that was my concern. He's beginning to really play downhill and take guys down short of the 1st down marker. While I was never a big fan of Goldson, THAT was what he did exceedingly well...play downhill. Reid wasn't doing that early but he's certainly been doing that of late. He did it a couple of times vs the Packers, but with every passing game he seems to be trusting his eyes more and more. Moreover...he has yet to be badly burned in coverage. Not bad for a rook.

3) Gore: Hes all washed up!!! Wow. So glad to be wrong on this one. Looks like we get at least one more year of Frank being Frank. Kendall looked pretty good there too. I just wonder whats gonna happen next year with Gore, Hunter, James, Dixon, and Lattimore.

4) WR: Just not getting it done. Not getting away from defenders. I know there was a report over the weekend that the Niners might be looking at Hakeem Nicks. The report was possibly as a rental for a 3. Ordinarily I'd be against it...but if they get him for a 3 and then lose him after the year to another team on a big contract, guess what sort of compensatory pick the Niners get for losing him. Yup...likely a 3. Hrmmm. I'm not advocating it so much as just sayin' its got me thinking.

5) Vernon: Wow. The dude isn't even healthy and you can see it in his stride. Even then he is just so hard to cover. If they could just get someone else who could get open imagine how scary this offense could be.

6) Pass Rush: Still a bit of a concern for me. Lemonier made a great play on that sack, but they were too often giving Carson way too much time back there. Lemonier is developing and may be a really good one in the future...but they need Aldon back. If they get him they will be that much better with Lemonier getting that extra experience.

7) Still surviving: Another game, another week closer to getting our horses back, and still only 1 game back from the Seahawks. Another bonus is that the Saints lost. That means the 49ers are 1 back of the lead in the entire NFC and still have games against both of the teams ahead of them. IE, their fate is effectively in their hands. After starting 1-2, things are lookin' pretty good right now. It hasn't always been pretty, but they are winning ugly games while they get themselves right.

8) Special Teams: Lookin like the ST of 2011. The Niners made a real effort this year to get a number of players on the roster specifically for Special Teams. Its paying off.

9) Dorsey: Ouch. Hope it isn't serious. He's played well after WIlliams went down...gonna suck if we have to spend alot of time playing our THIRD NT. TJE played OK considering....but Dorsey has been playing really well...even getting pressure at times.

10) Reinforcements: OK...as I said above, the Niners survived another week. This is a big one tho because we just got past week 6. Carradine. Dial. Manningham. Wright. All these guys are now ELIGIBLE to return. Whether they do now is a different question. If they can just get through Tennessee and Jacksonville in London...wow...they'd be 6-2 and going into a bye and possibly get ALL of these guys back....possibly even Aldon. Hell...even 5-3 looks pretty good when you look back at where we were at 1-2. If we CAN do that and get through the bye....then we get all THOSE guys back and are only a few weeks away from a possible Crabtree return. Crab, Boldin, Manningham, Vernon, and McDonald. I can only dream. Crab may not be the exact same guy early on, but the earlier he comes back the more time he'll have to get himself ready for the postseason.

Is this true about Nicks. Is there no rule to how long a player must be on a team during the season to receive a compensatory pick for them? Because if we would indeed receive a likely third then that makes this deal almost a can't lose for the niners.

Originally posted by LoneWolf:
The problem with getting Nicks or Gordon isnt whether they would work here or keep themselves out of trouble though its the $$$.

Money is going to get wierd soon regardless we are going be dumping a lot of guys to bring folks off IR...some of which are lower pay.

Still While I do agree with Marvin that Gordon is the better deal, I think he is a huge risk...I doubt he keeps his nose clean and if he does, I bet he is the type to hold out.

Quick thoughts of mine after scanning this thread:

1. I think OP is too easy on Kap. Kap just doesn't anticipate right now at all. If he gets a clean pocket and VD is running open, Kap is great. But you know what? Alex Smith could hit those passes with regularity too. All those pass breakups to me are just as much a product of Kap unable to anticipate. He just seems hesitant to me right now in the pocket, and needs someone to be open. He also has a major staring down problem. Combine that with his slow release and you get a lot of batted balls. Which shouldn't happen for a tall QB. The batted balls are becoming more and more regular and I'm sure it's on the Kap scouting report. I'm a little worried about his hand size too. He seems easy to strip (as opposed to Russell Wilson and his unusually large hands) and I never see him pump fake it on the run, which I would think would be an awesome weapon given his running ability. Is it because his hands aren't big enough to do those good pump fakes? Ok, maybe that's a stretch, but maybe not?

2. Tarrell Brown is a solid CB. I used to complain about Brown but then I realized that there are very few shutdown CBs in this league. He's often matched up against the opposing team's top WR and does reasonably well most of the time, if not exceptionally well. His ratings on Pro football focus supports this.

3. I hate stretch running plays with this team. How many times do we have to see our running plays blown up in the backfield?

4. Need some more vance mcdonald.

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
1) Kap: CAREER regular season statline as a starter - 13 starts, 210 comp, 353 att, 59.49 comp%, 2821 yards, 7.99 YPA, 18 TDs, 8 INTs, 92.51 QB Rating. This game really to me symbolized the problem with the 49ers WR corps. Its not ALL on them because Kap has his part to play as well, but it really illustrated the problem. Kap opened the game 2 of 7. You read that and think, "wow, he sucked". If you watch the game tho you will see that the ball is delivered on target but that the defender is able to knock it away because there is no separation. Now you can make the argument that perhaps he should have progressed to a different read and not tried to stick it in there, but all we've heard all offseason is how Boldin is the type of receiver where you throw him the ball even when he isn't wide open and he'll make the play. Kap is tryin man. LOL. The INT was tipped and would likely have been a TD if it hadn't been...but you still have to put that on Kap for throwing the ball low enough to get tipped. You also have to give the Cards credit for being pretty damn good on D.

2) Reid: DAMN! He missed ANOTHER tackle!!. Sorry...couldn't help myself. Reid is everything we had hoped and more. He's in his 6th NFL start and he is already playing mindgames with vet QBs. He's playing MUCH more confidently and aggressively than he did in preseason when that was my concern. He's beginning to really play downhill and take guys down short of the 1st down marker. While I was never a big fan of Goldson, THAT was what he did exceedingly well...play downhill. Reid wasn't doing that early but he's certainly been doing that of late. He did it a couple of times vs the Packers, but with every passing game he seems to be trusting his eyes more and more. Moreover...he has yet to be badly burned in coverage. Not bad for a rook.

3) Gore: Hes all washed up!!! Wow. So glad to be wrong on this one. Looks like we get at least one more year of Frank being Frank. Kendall looked pretty good there too. I just wonder whats gonna happen next year with Gore, Hunter, James, Dixon, and Lattimore.

4) WR: Just not getting it done. Not getting away from defenders. I know there was a report over the weekend that the Niners might be looking at Hakeem Nicks. The report was possibly as a rental for a 3. Ordinarily I'd be against it...but if they get him for a 3 and then lose him after the year to another team on a big contract, guess what sort of compensatory pick the Niners get for losing him. Yup...likely a 3. Hrmmm. I'm not advocating it so much as just sayin' its got me thinking.

5) Vernon: Wow. The dude isn't even healthy and you can see it in his stride. Even then he is just so hard to cover. If they could just get someone else who could get open imagine how scary this offense could be.

6) Pass Rush: Still a bit of a concern for me. Lemonier made a great play on that sack, but they were too often giving Carson way too much time back there. Lemonier is developing and may be a really good one in the future...but they need Aldon back. If they get him they will be that much better with Lemonier getting that extra experience.

7) Still surviving: Another game, another week closer to getting our horses back, and still only 1 game back from the Seahawks. Another bonus is that the Saints lost. That means the 49ers are 1 back of the lead in the entire NFC and still have games against both of the teams ahead of them. IE, their fate is effectively in their hands. After starting 1-2, things are lookin' pretty good right now. It hasn't always been pretty, but they are winning ugly games while they get themselves right.

8) Special Teams: Lookin like the ST of 2011. The Niners made a real effort this year to get a number of players on the roster specifically for Special Teams. Its paying off.

9) Dorsey: Ouch. Hope it isn't serious. He's played well after WIlliams went down...gonna suck if we have to spend alot of time playing our THIRD NT. TJE played OK considering....but Dorsey has been playing really well...even getting pressure at times.

10) Reinforcements: OK...as I said above, the Niners survived another week. This is a big one tho because we just got past week 6. Carradine. Dial. Manningham. Wright. All these guys are now ELIGIBLE to return. Whether they do now is a different question. If they can just get through Tennessee and Jacksonville in London...wow...they'd be 6-2 and going into a bye and possibly get ALL of these guys back....possibly even Aldon. Hell...even 5-3 looks pretty good when you look back at where we were at 1-2. If we CAN do that and get through the bye....then we get all THOSE guys back and are only a few weeks away from a possible Crabtree return. Crab, Boldin, Manningham, Vernon, and McDonald. I can only dream. Crab may not be the exact same guy early on, but the earlier he comes back the more time he'll have to get himself ready for the postseason.

Is this true about Nicks. Is there no rule to how long a player must be on a team during the season to receive a compensatory pick for them? Because if we would indeed receive a likely third then that makes this deal almost a can't lose for the niners.

Yes.

And no, there is no rule about how long. The 49ers would take over Nicks rookie contract. When they lost him as a Free Agent it would be as though they had drafted him.

The only things that could prevent them from getting a high pick...

1) Nobody signing him to a large contract.
2) The 49ers themselves signing high priced free agents from other teams whose contracts had expired (terminated contracts don't count in the formula).

Originally posted by bsyde82:
Quick thoughts of mine after scanning this thread:

1. I think OP is too easy on Kap. Kap just doesn't anticipate right now at all. If he gets a clean pocket and VD is running open, Kap is great. But you know what? Alex Smith could hit those passes with regularity too. All those pass breakups to me are just as much a product of Kap unable to anticipate. He just seems hesitant to me right now in the pocket, and needs someone to be open. He also has a major staring down problem. Combine that with his slow release and you get a lot of batted balls. Which shouldn't happen for a tall QB. The batted balls are becoming more and more regular and I'm sure it's on the Kap scouting report. I'm a little worried about his hand size too. He seems easy to strip (as opposed to Russell Wilson and his unusually large hands) and I never see him pump fake it on the run, which I would think would be an awesome weapon given his running ability. Is it because his hands aren't big enough to do those good pump fakes? Ok, maybe that's a stretch, but maybe not?

2. Tarrell Brown is a solid CB. I used to complain about Brown but then I realized that there are very few shutdown CBs in this league. He's often matched up against the opposing team's top WR and does reasonably well most of the time, if not exceptionally well. His ratings on Pro football focus supports this.

3. I hate stretch running plays with this team. How many times do we have to see our running plays blown up in the backfield?

4. Need some more vance mcdonald.

Great post...agreed on all points, even Brown; my issue with him is his technique than his overall skill set; also, poor at timing his jumps. A good example is how when Brock was matched up on Andre Johnson, Brock owned him...they move Johnson over to Brown and Johnson skied over Brown the rest of the game and Brown got VERY lucky Johnson dropped that TD in the EZ. That may go down as a PD for Brown (maybe not in PFF) but to me, that's a clear TD drop by Johnson.

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by LoneWolf:
The problem with getting Nicks or Gordon isnt whether they would work here or keep themselves out of trouble though its the $$$.

Money is going to get wierd soon regardless we are going be dumping a lot of guys to bring folks off IR...some of which are lower pay.

Still While I do agree with Marvin that Gordon is the better deal, I think he is a huge risk...I doubt he keeps his nose clean and if he does, I bet he is the type to hold out.

Well you wouldn't have to worry about the holdout until the end of NEXT year. The CBA dictatates that contracts can't be renegotiated till a player has completed his 3rd league year. The 49ers couldn't redo his contract even if they wanted to.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bsyde82:
Quick thoughts of mine after scanning this thread:

1. I think OP is too easy on Kap. Kap just doesn't anticipate right now at all. If he gets a clean pocket and VD is running open, Kap is great. But you know what? Alex Smith could hit those passes with regularity too. All those pass breakups to me are just as much a product of Kap unable to anticipate. He just seems hesitant to me right now in the pocket, and needs someone to be open. He also has a major staring down problem. Combine that with his slow release and you get a lot of batted balls. Which shouldn't happen for a tall QB. The batted balls are becoming more and more regular and I'm sure it's on the Kap scouting report. I'm a little worried about his hand size too. He seems easy to strip (as opposed to Russell Wilson and his unusually large hands) and I never see him pump fake it on the run, which I would think would be an awesome weapon given his running ability. Is it because his hands aren't big enough to do those good pump fakes? Ok, maybe that's a stretch, but maybe not?

2. Tarrell Brown is a solid CB. I used to complain about Brown but then I realized that there are very few shutdown CBs in this league. He's often matched up against the opposing team's top WR and does reasonably well most of the time, if not exceptionally well. His ratings on Pro football focus supports this.

3. I hate stretch running plays with this team. How many times do we have to see our running plays blown up in the backfield?

4. Need some more vance mcdonald.

Great post...agreed on all points, even Brown; my issue with him is his technique than his overall skill set; also, poor at timing his jumps. A good example is how when Brock was matched up on Andre Johnson, Brock owned him...they move Johnson over to Brown and Johnson skied over Brown the rest of the game and Brown got VERY lucky Johnson dropped that TD in the EZ. That may go down as a PD for Brown (maybe not in PFF) but to me, that's a clear TD drop by Johnson.

I'm not sure about that one. I've watched that play several times and I've been wondering if Brown actually knocked that ball out. All of the camera angles are from behind Johnson so you can't tell but Brown reaches in there. I don't know for sure but I've been wondering.

Originally posted by Marvin49:
I'm not sure about that one. I've watched that play several times and I've been wondering if Brown actually knocked that ball out. All of the camera angles are from behind Johnson so you can't tell but Brown reaches in there. I don't know for sure but I've been wondering.

Uh oh, time to rewatch the tape...will gladly be wrong on this one. You're talking about the one-hander right? Kind of a bad throw but that's typically a catch Johnson makes even with one hand so you may be right...despite Johnson elevating, Brown may have swiped it away with his feet firmly planted on the ground (but hard to see). IIRC Brownwasn't trailing this one...actually facing Johnson in the EZ, right?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
I'm not sure about that one. I've watched that play several times and I've been wondering if Brown actually knocked that ball out. All of the camera angles are from behind Johnson so you can't tell but Brown reaches in there. I don't know for sure but I've been wondering.

Uh oh, time to rewatch the tape...will gladly be wrong on this one. You're talking about the one-hander right? Kind of a bad throw but that's typically a catch Johnson makes even with one hand so you may be right...despite Johnson elevating, Brown may have swiped it away with his feet firmly planted on the ground (but hard to see). IIRC Brownwasn't trailing this one...actually facing Johnson in the EZ, right?

Correct. I don't know because I didn't see a good shot of the frontside of Johnson to see how the ball came out.

It's possible he flat dropped it but I'm not sure.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
I'm not sure about that one. I've watched that play several times and I've been wondering if Brown actually knocked that ball out. All of the camera angles are from behind Johnson so you can't tell but Brown reaches in there. I don't know for sure but I've been wondering.

Uh oh, time to rewatch the tape...will gladly be wrong on this one. You're talking about the one-hander right? Kind of a bad throw but that's typically a catch Johnson makes even with one hand so you may be right...despite Johnson elevating, Brown may have swiped it away with his feet firmly planted on the ground (but hard to see). IIRC Brownwasn't trailing this one...actually facing Johnson in the EZ, right?

Correct. I don't know because I didn't see a good shot of the frontside of Johnson to see how the ball came out.

It's possible he flat dropped it but I'm not sure.

Cool...no worries. The end result is an incomplete pass and no TD in a blowout win...keeping perspective here. But if I get a sec, I'll go back and watch again and see if I can pick up on it for us.

Boldin had a huge game in week 1. Davis had a huge game in week 6. It looks like for our passing game to succeed, one of these two should be having a huge game. I'm not sure if that is sustainable.
I also noticed that Seatte is primarily relying on Lynch, more and more each game. The Cardinals should stop this one guy, and let's see if Seattle can still win this.

Anybody know where I can re-watch this game?