49ers Offense -- The Pistol portion -- Explained by Chris Ault on NFLN

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by jreff22:
and he is 100% correct, if each defender hits their man you stop the play from developing

If you have the OLB, DE, and CB coverage down on the run and take out the RB the QB has nobody to pitch to. Remember in the pistol we only have 2 WR's on the field, if you bring one of the safetys down to cover you can use the CB to push the play inside and use the OLB to gun for the RB.

Originally posted by jreff22:
If you have the OLB, DE, and CB coverage down on the run and take out the RB the QB has nobody to pitch to. Remember in the pistol we only have 2 WR's on the field, if you bring one of the safetys down to cover you can use the CB to push the play inside and use the OLB to gun for the RB.

Then that leaves the pass open.

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Mangini and and Mike from Mike and Mike provided an interesting way to stop it. You know how a few times the DE was standing there staring at Kaep after the handoff? Well, Mangini said you don't have the DE make a read. You have him go full speed at the QB and hit him as hard as you can and completely ignore the hand-off to the RB.

You do that a few times and that QB's head coach will call it less in order to not put his QB in a position to get injured.

Mangini is right, that is a free hit on the QB and it would be legal considering the threat of the QB running.

and he is 100% correct, if each defender hits their man you stop the play from developing

damn if Mangini was this smart he'd probably have in the NFL still

on paper it makes sense but actually having the players to do it is the hard part. I would say we have the LB's to do it because both Willis and Bowman are fast enough to break down on the play....even Goldson has enough speed to contain the play at the line of scrimmage.

But like I said you need to players to be able to do it. Or you play a team like Sea that will just play dirty and look to take guys out.

I think the only way to stop it is to rush an extra man from the edge like a Safety or LB that goes straight for the QB, but Kaep is smart enough to chek out of the play call if he sees an extra man rushing.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by jreff22:
If you have the OLB, DE, and CB coverage down on the run and take out the RB the QB has nobody to pitch to. Remember in the pistol we only have 2 WR's on the field, if you bring one of the safetys down to cover you can use the CB to push the play inside and use the OLB to gun for the RB.

Then that leaves the pass open.

If the player is open......

All of this is predicated on the strentgh and speed of the D. If you can jam the WR long enough you can take him out of the equation. Its all a chess game and not many teams have the personnel to beat us at it. But if they can contain it or stop it, it takes a serious piece of our formula away.

Originally posted by jreff22:
If the player is open......

All of this is predicated on the strentgh and speed of the D. If you can jam the WR long enough you can take him out of the equation. Its all a chess game and not many teams have the personnel to beat us at it. But if they can contain it or stop it, it takes a serious piece of our formula away.

Your acting like all this is specific to the pistol offense... When all the things you are saying can pertain to any offensive.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by jreff22:
If you have the OLB, DE, and CB coverage down on the run and take out the RB the QB has nobody to pitch to. Remember in the pistol we only have 2 WR's on the field, if you bring one of the safetys down to cover you can use the CB to push the play inside and use the OLB to gun for the RB.

Then that leaves the pass open.

If the player is open......

All of this is predicated on the strentgh and speed of the D. If you can jam the WR long enough you can take him out of the equation. Its all a chess game and not many teams have the personnel to beat us at it. But if they can contain it or stop it, it takes a serious piece of our formula away.

That is the great thing about us though. We have a heavy playbook, we can line up and play the power running game and play action pass. Kaep can even drop back and be a passer and take off if things break down. We have way too much on film for the defense to prepare for it all.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by jreff22:
If you have the OLB, DE, and CB coverage down on the run and take out the RB the QB has nobody to pitch to. Remember in the pistol we only have 2 WR's on the field, if you bring one of the safetys down to cover you can use the CB to push the play inside and use the OLB to gun for the RB.

Then that leaves the pass open.

If the player is open......

All of this is predicated on the strentgh and speed of the D. If you can jam the WR long enough you can take him out of the equation. Its all a chess game and not many teams have the personnel to beat us at it. But if they can contain it or stop it, it takes a serious piece of our formula away.

Yes but Kaep can also place the ball at the right spots when a player is not "open".

Not knowing much about football, I would think that the pistol read option would be easy to defend. Here is how I would do it:

1. Always have the DE bite on the running back, i.e. give the QB the read to keep the ball. This basically let's the defense call the play in the huddle.
2. Now that you know that the QB is going to run with the ball, you now need a defender to cover the space that the DE vacated, whether that be a LB, Safety, or CB.
3. If neither side changes, you now get to hit the QB 20 times in a game.
4. Presumably, the QB will stop reading the DE, and now look to see if someone is filling in the space for the DE. But they don't have much time to read the defense, and it won't be the same player filling in the spot each time.
5. Presumably, the QB will stop trusting their read, and even some times when there is a vacant spot behind the DE, the QB will hand off to the RB anyway.

One other way I would defend the pistol read/49er version. Blitz to the left side of the line. They seem to usually run to the defense's left when they run the option.

Originally posted by Furlow:
Formation? It's our base offense. What happened to a return to the WCO? I want to see another 49ers HOF quarterback. That's not going to happen with this offense.

what are you f**kin stupid or something? if kaepernick has three years like his 9 starts have been he will be a legend

Originally posted by fryet:
Not knowing much about football, I would think that the pistol read option would be easy to defend. Here is how I would do it:

1. Always have the DE bite on the running back, i.e. give the QB the read to keep the ball. This basically let's the defense call the play in the huddle.
2. Now that you know that the QB is going to run with the ball, you now need a defender to cover the space that the DE vacated, whether that be a LB, Safety, or CB.
3. If neither side changes, you now get to hit the QB 20 times in a game.
4. Presumably, the QB will stop reading the DE, and now look to see if someone is filling in the space for the DE. But they don't have much time to read the defense, and it won't be the same player filling in the spot each time.
5. Presumably, the QB will stop trusting their read, and even some times when there is a vacant spot behind the DE, the QB will hand off to the RB anyway.

One other way I would defend the pistol read/49er version. Blitz to the left side of the line. They seem to usually run to the defense's left when they run the option.

The Rams did this pretty successfully. We adapted and started looping the fullback to take care of the safety and just letting the DE crash and take himself out of the play. Another counter is to pass as somebody has said before. It's definitely a better defense than what the Packers and Falcons were doing.

Originally posted by xtm059:

Originally posted by Furlow:
Formation? It's our base offense. What happened to a return to the WCO? I want to see another 49ers HOF quarterback. That's not going to happen with this offense.

what are you f**kin stupid or something? if kaepernick has three years like his 9 starts have been he will be a legend

Originally posted by MortimerC:
The Rams did this pretty successfully. We adapted and started looping the fullback to take care of the safety and just letting the DE crash and take himself out of the play. Another counter is to pass as somebody has said before. It's definitely a better defense than what the Packers and Falcons were doing.

Yes, I can see offensive counters like what you suggest. But the more offensive players you have running in that direction, the easier it is to have defenders run in the same direction. It just seems that encouraging the QB keeper is better than having a DE take himself out of the play.

Just curious:

I've been reading the Ravens board and one thing that stand out is the fact that they think the offensive schemes we run is a "gimmick" offense and that it won't succeed in the long run.

Two questions:

1. Would you call our offensive schemes a gimmick offense? If you say yes, (see #2)
2. If we win the SB, would you consider that a success?

- 98

Originally posted by DelCed2486:
I can buy that if we were talking the pitch option, where the QB is running mostly laterally with the ball, waiting until that very last split-second to make the decision to keep or pitch, which often means a DE or LB is bearing down on him. So yeah, if that DE or LB has been designated as the QB killer regardless if there's a pitch, he's right there to make the hit.

But look at the Read Option as the 49ers have been running it from the Pistol...Kaepernick is making that decision to let the RB keep it or run it himself based on the first 1 or 2 or steps of the DE...very rarely is there someone "right there" ready to lay a lick on Kaepernick when he does give it to the RB. So that would mean a DE will have to, 1) be disciplined enough to not chase the RB that now has the ball and is trying to go around him, and, 2) take a couple extra steps to reach Kaepernick in order to hit him. In this day and age of football, do you think that just might draw a yellow hanky? And remember, it's the PISTOL, so the QB is getting the snap ~4 yds behind the LOS, which, again, is adding space between him and DE/LB.

I'm not saying the Ravens or some future team won't take this approach, but I do think it's easier said than done considering the formation itself and the rules of today's NFL.

I meant in a general sense, most of the time the DE's haven't been getting very close and that would be an easy roughing the passer call for the ref if someone were to just deck the quarterback after he handed the ball off. For a read option, for the Run and Shoot and several other "gimmick" types of plays and offenses, it has come down to basically headhunting the quarterback to put a stop to it, however with the way the NFL is currently, QB's are more protected than ever before and that is one reason why I think the Pistol and the read option are more than just passing fad's. Additionally the QB's are better, the quarterbacks coming out of college seem to be more well-prepared than at anytime in the past and you're getting guys who are phenomenal athletes, but are quarterbacks first and foremost, able to do damage with their arms and their legs.