our offense has a chance to be borderline elite | Page 3

49ersalldaway126 · 2011-12-20T18:13:12-08:00

dont laugh and bash me read before you make a comment in a shortened offseason (you remember how limited our playbook was earlier this year) we are top 10 in reaching the RZ only averaging 1 less RZ trips than the league leader the saints and the packers and in the last 5 to 6 games we average one of the most RZ truips in the nfl http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat...empts-per-game and we are 3rd to last in the nfl in RZ conversion into TDs i did some calculation and as of now we are averaging 11 points less than the league leaders packers in points assuming we score the league average (yes just the average) on Tds in the RZ that puts us is the top 5 in scoring ( just a mere 3 points behind GB) so basically what we have to do is score Tds int he red zone i know i know wht youre going to say it might sound simpler than it is i have reviewed every red zone snaps the last couple of games (thanks to our very own Whomeam) - what ive notice is that a lot of time like walker said we dont have enough ime to audible and make hot routes some stupid personnel package is on he field( a lot of time there is no crabtee or we just aren't targeting him -fade to ginn really?) and we are running far too much- over 60% which is far more than any other team (we have got to pass it more and just keep it simple basically- like no stupid wildcat formations) and the steelers game yesterday gave me more hope for improvement they are the best red zone defensive team besides us and we scored 2/3 times against them the difference was that we didnt even run that much in the RZ (from what i can remember) quite honestly i dont think we ran it more than 2-3 times in the RZ yesterday so in conclusion what im saying is that in a short off-season in a very complicated offense we are moving the ball very well getting into the RZ very often and if we just score the league average % on RZ trips we instantly become a top 5 scoring team on offense i fully believe that this issue will be solved with a full offseason i just hope it can be done by he payoffs

Dec 21, 2011 at 3:10 PM

#31

lssanjose
Veteran
Posts: 648

Originally posted by Shaj:
^^ that's because Walsh would pass first to get the lead and then run to drain the clock. Not to be confused with our current strategy of having a run oriented attack, with short, high completion, low risk passes.

The only difference between this 9ers team, and the 81 team is this one is run first. Other than that, Montana was asked to throw high percentage passes. Even Montana, in Art of Quarterbacking, preferred longer sustained drives. It was Ronnie Lott who didn't like Walsh sitting on leads (in his first biography), who thought Seifert was a relief by allowing offense to blow teams out.

Dec 21, 2011 at 3:19 PM

#32

Marvin49
Hall of Fame
Posts: 16,506

Well....

.....I'll say this.

I saw a stat on CSN Bay Area that I wish I could find and post here.

The 49ers were the worst redzone team by TD % in the NFL. The other teams on the list were ALL under .500 and some of the worst in the NFL.

The big difference? Those other teams had only been in the Redzone 20-25 times. The Niners had been there 45 times.

Even with the 49ers having so much trouble in the redzone, they are STILL 3rd in the NFL in net points (differential between points scored and points allowed) behind the Pack and the Saints.

Dec 22, 2011 at 10:56 AM

#33

49ersalldaway126
Veteran
Posts: 14,549

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Well....

.....I'll say this.

I saw a stat on CSN Bay Area that I wish I could find and post here.

The 49ers were the worst redzone team by TD % in the NFL. The other teams on the list were ALL under .500 and some of the worst in the NFL.

The big difference? Those other teams had only been in the Redzone 20-25 times. The Niners had been there 45 times.

Even with the 49ers having so much trouble in the redzone, they are STILL 3rd in the NFL in net points (differential between points scored and points allowed) behind the Pack and the Saints.

anf thats the exact point im making here

we are one of the highest red zone visiting teams and if we convert a bit more (and it reallys eems like we are) we will be one of the highrdt scoring nfl teams -hence a borderline elite offense

Dec 22, 2011 at 12:27 PM

#34

Chico
Veteran
Posts: 2,546

One more year in the same system and this offense could explode next year

Dec 22, 2011 at 4:45 PM

#35

KowboyKiller
Veteran
Posts: 6,991

Next year, with a full offseason of Harball, this offense will be crazy efficient. So I agree.

Dec 22, 2011 at 4:52 PM

#36

Marvin49
Hall of Fame
Posts: 16,506

I also think the 49ers have been "holding back" in the past few weeks. They don't seem to have been as creative.

Several weeks ago they started to open up the offense with Alex throwing the ball more than they are running.

That does two things....

1) It gets them ready if they NEED to pass.
2) It rests the runners (Gore in particular) for the postseason.

My bet is that when that first playoff game starts, we as fans and the other team are going to be pretty surprised by what we see. I mean seriously, when was the last time we saw something that truly surprised us? In the opening weeks of the year it was like every single game there was a new wrinkle. Then that all stopped when they got close to the division crown.

We keep asking stuff like "why are the only attacking the edges of the endzone?", or "why so few screens?", or "why not throw to Vernon in the Endzone?".

We saw ALL of those change against Pitt. Why? Because something was at stake. My bet is that in that firs playoff game we will see Gore get a ton of touches, Vernon getting the ball down the seam, and Delanie Walker will be featured again. We'll also see the slant come back in a big way.

[ Edited by Marvin49 on Dec 22, 2011 at 4:54 PM ]

Dec 22, 2011 at 5:21 PM

#37

49ersGiantspride
Veteran
Posts: 1,963

I think it could be,right now we're more defensive oriented but Harbaugh will likely change that within the next 2 years. Crabtree,Davis,Gore, and Walker could really excel in this offense I'm excited to see what they can do with a full offseason of preparation in this system.

Dec 22, 2011 at 10:35 PM

#38

ninersrule4
Veteran
Posts: 22,326

Um elite???

You need a great QB, a legit o line and as much as I love Crabs you need a beasting WR. We have none of that. We can be good but not elite

Now if we add these pieces in the draft, with Harbs and the talent we have. Look out NFL

[ Edited by ninersrule4 on Dec 22, 2011 at 10:37 PM ]

Dec 22, 2011 at 10:48 PM

#39

80sbaby24
Member
Posts: 2,990

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Well....

.....I'll say this.

I saw a stat on CSN Bay Area that I wish I could find and post here.

The 49ers were the worst redzone team by TD % in the NFL. The other teams on the list were ALL under .500 and some of the worst in the NFL.

The big difference? Those other teams had only been in the Redzone 20-25 times. The Niners had been there 45 times.

Even with the 49ers having so much trouble in the redzone, they are STILL 3rd in the NFL in net points (differential between points scored and points allowed) behind the Pack and the Saints.

anf thats the exact point im making here

we are one of the highest red zone visiting teams and if we convert a bit more (and it reallys eems like we are) we will be one of the highrdt scoring nfl teams -hence a borderline elite offense

The reason we are in the redzone so frequently is because our defense causes turnovers and our special teams is elite. Your point is completely invalid. Just because we get to the RZ a lot has very little to do with our offense. So even if we scored touchdowns at the league average mark (as you pointed out), it would NOT make our offense elite. Period.

This is a really dumb thread.

Dec 23, 2011 at 9:46 AM

#40

Shorteous
Veteran
Posts: 3,299

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Well....

.....I'll say this.

I saw a stat on CSN Bay Area that I wish I could find and post here.

The 49ers were the worst redzone team by TD % in the NFL. The other teams on the list were ALL under .500 and some of the worst in the NFL.

The big difference? Those other teams had only been in the Redzone 20-25 times. The Niners had been there 45 times.

Even with the 49ers having so much trouble in the redzone, they are STILL 3rd in the NFL in net points (differential between points scored and points allowed) behind the Pack and the Saints.

anf thats the exact point im making here

we are one of the highest red zone visiting teams and if we convert a bit more (and it reallys eems like we are) we will be one of the highrdt scoring nfl teams -hence a borderline elite offense

The reason we are in the redzone so frequently is because our defense causes turnovers and our special teams is elite. Your point is completely invalid. Just because we get to the RZ a lot has very little to do with our offense. So even if we scored touchdowns at the league average mark (as you pointed out), it would NOT make our offense elite. Period.

This is a really dumb thread.

If I was you, I would wish I could have this post back because... well... hahaha... ya. This is really your response to this thread? You basically listed your feelings about how we get to the endzone so often, considering your a person to take half stats and truths to make a point its really kind of an embarrassing response. haha.

Dec 23, 2011 at 11:27 AM

#41

49ersalldaway126
Veteran
Posts: 14,549

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
The reason we are in the redzone so frequently is because our defense causes turnovers and our special teams is elite. Your point is completely invalid. Just because we get to the RZ a lot has very little to do with our offense. So even if we scored touchdowns at the league average mark (as you pointed out), it would NOT make our offense elite. Period.

This is a really dumb thread.

wait let me see if im understanding you correctly

you are saying our offense is not elite because we are talking advantage of the good field position?

Dec 23, 2011 at 12:17 PM

#42

80sbaby24
Member
Posts: 2,990

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
The reason we are in the redzone so frequently is because our defense causes turnovers and our special teams is elite. Your point is completely invalid. Just because we get to the RZ a lot has very little to do with our offense. So even if we scored touchdowns at the league average mark (as you pointed out), it would NOT make our offense elite. Period.

This is a really dumb thread.

wait let me see if im understanding you correctly

you are saying our offense is not elite because we are talking advantage of the good field position?

Um, no thats not what I am saying at all. I am saying our offense is NOT elite because we are NOT taking advantage of field position. How you interpreted what you did is mind boggling.

Originally posted by Shorteous:
If I was you, I would wish I could have this post back because... well... hahaha... ya. This is really your response to this thread? You basically listed your feelings about how we get to the endzone so often, considering your a person to take half stats and truths to make a point its really kind of an embarrassing response. haha.

The hell are you talking about? Where are my half stats and truths?

OP made a comment that if we scored more in the redzone, our offense would be elite. I dont have the slightest clue how one could come to that conclusion. I was stating that the reason we are in the redzone so often is NOT because of our offense (dont know how anyone could disagree with that). I dont know how that this was an embarrasing response.

Want an analogy to OP's point? Lets say Anthony Dixon has 200 yards on the season, but 20 goalline carries. Lets say he scored 10 touchdowns on those carries from the 1. Would that make him an elite running back?

Dec 23, 2011 at 12:39 PM

#43

LifelongNiner
Veteran
Posts: 24,631

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Um, no thats not what I am saying at all. I am saying our offense is NOT elite because we are NOT taking advantage of field position. How you interpreted what you did is mind boggling.

The hell are you talking about? Where are my half stats and truths?

OP made a comment that if we scored more in the redzone, our offense would be elite. I dont have the slightest clue how one could come to that conclusion. I was stating that the reason we are in the redzone so often is NOT because of our offense (dont know how anyone could disagree with that). I dont know how that this was an embarrasing response.

Want an analogy to OP's point? Lets say Anthony Dixon has 200 yards on the season, but 20 goalline carries. Lets say he scored 10 touchdowns on those carries from the 1. Would that make him an elite running back?

That would make him the Willis McGahee to Frank Gore's Ray Rice of Baltimore from last season.

I definitely agree with your point about field position. It makes me smh to see the defense produce a 3 and out or a turnover, giving the offense a short field, only for them to produce 3 points. Some 49ers fans want to compare us to the 2000 Ravens, but we may be more like the 1984 Chicago Bears.

However, this thread has some merit. With the pieces we have on offense right now, this has been a season of near misses. Games that should've been blowouts by 1990s 49ers standards ((Cleveland comes to mind) were nice wins. Much of this falls on execution. So many 3rd and 4th down conversions, deep passes, and touchdowns have been missed this season because of drops or Alex Smith simply missing the mark. If this gets cleaned up, this offense will be borderline elite. As it stands right now, they could average between 28-31 points per game, which would put them behind the truly elite offenses. It would also make this team that much more dangerous because our defense is much better than the Saints and Packers. We don't have to be as good as they are on offense. We just need to take advantage of the opportunites we already have.

Dec 23, 2011 at 1:31 PM

#44

Shorteous
Veteran
Posts: 3,299

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Um, no thats not what I am saying at all. I am saying our offense is NOT elite because we are NOT taking advantage of field position. How you interpreted what you did is mind boggling.

The hell are you talking about? Where are my half stats and truths?

OP made a comment that if we scored more in the redzone, our offense would be elite. I dont have the slightest clue how one could come to that conclusion. I was stating that the reason we are in the redzone so often is NOT because of our offense (dont know how anyone could disagree with that). I dont know how that this was an embarrasing response.

Normally when having a discussion with young teenagers you'll find the type of reason below that resorts in some extreme case to make a point. This again is an embarrassment to yourself. In order to prove your point that our offense was not elite and that we end up in the redzone because of our defense you make up some statistical example based in fiction as your case. See I'm not sure your picking up the why it is part. I don't need some amateurish example to explain to me what you were trying to say, I understood what you were saying. All this quote below does is explain to me what everybody already understood yet you still use this fiction story to reinforce your point.

Want an analogy to OP's point? Lets say Anthony Dixon has 200 yards on the season, but 20 goalline carries. Lets say he scored 10 touchdowns on those carries from the 1. Would that make him an elite running back?

Now the problem I have with you is that you have no actual data to back what you said in your post except for your feeling of what is happening. Yet it is posted as fact and then used as a point to discredit the op and the offense. It would not be too difficult to spend 30 minutes researching how many of our drives actually start in the redzone because of turnovers. Then you could actually have a real stat to use to explain away the point that our offensive trips into the redzone is from our 40+ turnovers we've gotten in the redzone...

Unfortunately you'll see that your stance is widely misrepresented and the position that you took on that premise is quite embarrassing.

So I decided to take the 30 minutes to do the work for you. This is the entire seasons stats according to me browsing through the play by play.

We have had 50 drives that have taken us into the redzone this year.

7 of those drives started in the redzone because of our defense.
1 of those drives started in the redzone because of our special teams.

There's no doubt that having 16% of our drives beginning in the redzone due to our defense/st is great. But on the same token that still leaves 42 drives by the offense which I'm pretty sure probably still ranks this team really high in the league. (That last point would negate the other teams also having defensive and special teams starting them in the redzone).

Basically your whole post was garbage and anybody with basic logic and no agenda could see it.

THAT IS WHY IT WAS EMBARRASSING. SMH
To cool for school I guess.

[ Edited by Shorteous on Dec 23, 2011 at 5:03 PM ]

Dec 23, 2011 at 1:50 PM

#45

fastforward
Veteran
Posts: 1,756

The 49ers have 31:51 - 28:20 time of possession average vs the opponents, and had almost the same offensive yards. Considering that they had well below average offensive yards in the first few games of the seasons, the 49ers offense has done quite a decent job controlling the ball. Had the offense been more prolific in scoring TDs, this team would likely rank near the top in points.