Alex Smith Thread

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Fair enough but I still don't understand how that some how negates the fact that he's very efficient and...well...pretty good.

I didn't realize there was a NFL bible that said in order to be "elite" or "good" you have to attempt 30 passes/game, throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs, and your team has to rely on you...?

My point is: this is a circular argument based on everyone's view of what a QB "should be like."

I don't think anyone is saying this.

I think people are saying the more a team relies on you to win (as a QB), the more chances you are going to have to make mistakes. Not only are you being asked to throw more, you're often being asked to make more risky throws, especially if you're playing from behind every game and can't settle for 3 and outs, field goals etc.

Alex Smith's QB ratings from games with over 30 attempts-

Bengals: 85.6(30 att)
Eagles: 112.1(33 att)
Lions: 60(32 att)
Giants: 85.7 (30 att)
Cardinals: 81.8 (38 att)

Under 30 attempts-
Seahawks: 90.4 (20 att)
Cowboys: 99.1 (24 att)
Bucs: 127.2 (19 att)
Browns: 98.8 (24 att)
Redskins: 109.7 (24 att)
Ravens: 61.1 (23 att)

It's becoming dangerous to even ask questions about Smith now that he's doing well.

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Fair enough but I still don't understand how that some how negates the fact that he's very efficient and...well...pretty good.

I didn't realize there was a NFL bible that said in order to be "elite" or "good" you have to attempt 30 passes/game, throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs, and your team has to rely on you...?

My point is: this is a circular argument based on everyone's view of what a QB "should be like."

I don't think anyone is saying this.

I think people are saying the more a team relies on you to win (as a QB), the more chances you are going to have to make mistakes. Not only are you being asked to throw more, you're often being asked to make more risky throws, especially if you're playing from behind every game and can't settle for 3 and outs, field goals etc.

Alex Smith's QB ratings from games with over 30 attempts-

Bengals: 85.6(30 att)
Eagles: 112.1(33 att)
Lions: 60(32 att)
Giants: 85.7 (30 att)
Cardinals: 81.8 (38 att)

Under 30 attempts-
Seahawks: 90.4 (20 att)
Cowboys: 99.1 (24 att)
Bucs: 127.2 (19 att)
Browns: 98.8 (24 att)
Redskins: 109.7 (24 att)
Ravens: 61.1 (23 att)

Okay, Baugh - you're right, he's not very good. What should we do? Same question to all the other Smith detractors. What do you guys think the answer is?

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Again, I ask... where did these stats from earlier come from?

1. 49ers, drop rate = 19/286 = 6.64%
2. Jaguars, drop rate = 19/299 = 6.35%
3. Browns, drop rate = 23/375 = 6.13%
4. Rams, drop rate = 23/380 = 6.05%
5. Eagles, drop rate = 23/386 = 5.96%
6. Bears, drop rate = 20/336 = 5.95%
7. Giants, drop rate = 23/387 = 5.94%
8. Chiefs, drop rate = 18/321 = 5.61%
9. Falcons, drop rate = 20/376 = 5.32%
10. Packers, drop rate = 19/377 = 5.11%

Dunno where he got that...but it is fairly consistant with this considering it was missing a game:

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

Although this source requires that you manually input passes thrown on your own spreadsheet... I did do another stat just for giggles. Big play per attempt %

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Fair enough but I still don't understand how that some how negates the fact that he's very efficient and...well...pretty good.

I didn't realize there was a NFL bible that said in order to be "elite" or "good" you have to attempt 30 passes/game, throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs, and your team has to rely on you...?

My point is: this is a circular argument based on everyone's view of what a QB "should be like."

I don't think anyone is saying this.

I think people are saying the more a team relies on you to win (as a QB), the more chances you are going to have to make mistakes. Not only are you being asked to throw more, you're often being asked to make more risky throws, especially if you're playing from behind every game and can't settle for 3 and outs, field goals etc.

Alex Smith's QB ratings from games with over 30 attempts-

Bengals: 85.6(30 att)
Eagles: 112.1(33 att)
Lions: 60(32 att)
Giants: 85.7 (30 att)
Cardinals: 81.8 (38 att)

Under 30 attempts-
Seahawks: 90.4 (20 att)
Cowboys: 99.1 (24 att)
Bucs: 127.2 (19 att)
Browns: 98.8 (24 att)
Redskins: 109.7 (24 att)
Ravens: 61.1 (23 att)

Okay, Baugh - you're right, he's not very good. What should we do? Same question to all the other Smith detractors. What do you guys think the answer is?

1.) Nobody with any common sense is saying Smith isn't good this year/hasn't played well
2.) There's nothing to do or no other answer at this point...Alex is the QB and we're going to live and die with him in 2011
3.) If we wins it all, he deserves all the praise due him including an extension to stay here (IMO)
4.) Should he falter in the playoffs, he should be re-evaluated (is he the long-term answer or can another QB take us to the next level)

Fair enough?

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Fair enough but I still don't understand how that some how negates the fact that he's very efficient and...well...pretty good.

I didn't realize there was a NFL bible that said in order to be "elite" or "good" you have to attempt 30 passes/game, throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs, and your team has to rely on you...?

My point is: this is a circular argument based on everyone's view of what a QB "should be like."

I don't think anyone is saying this.

I think people are saying the more a team relies on you to win (as a QB), the more chances you are going to have to make mistakes. Not only are you being asked to throw more, you're often being asked to make more risky throws, especially if you're playing from behind every game and can't settle for 3 and outs, field goals etc.

Alex Smith's QB ratings from games with over 30 attempts-

Bengals: 85.6(30 att)
Eagles: 112.1(33 att)
Lions: 60(32 att)
Giants: 85.7 (30 att)
Cardinals: 81.8 (38 att)

Under 30 attempts-
Seahawks: 90.4 (20 att)
Cowboys: 99.1 (24 att)
Bucs: 127.2 (19 att)
Browns: 98.8 (24 att)
Redskins: 109.7 (24 att)
Ravens: 61.1 (23 att)

Okay, Baugh - you're right, he's not very good. What should we do? Same question to all the other Smith detractors. What do you guys think the answer is?

1.) Nobody with any common sense is saying Smith isn't good this year/hasn't played well
2.) There's nothing to do or no other answer at this point...Alex is the QB and we're going to live and die with him in 2011
3.) If we wins it all, he deserves all the praise due him including an extension to stay here (IMO)
4.) Should he falter in the playoffs, he should be re-evaluated (is he the long-term answer or can another QB take us to the next level)

Fair enough?

Sounds like a whole lot of backpedalling...

Question for you and the rest of the detractors. Let's say we have a shot at Peyton Manning next season, would you sign him? Understand it will cost us $25 million per year, when we could get Alex for $8-$10 million. So that eats up $15 million that we could have used to sign Carlos Rogers, Dashon Goldson, etc. Do you think Manning is worth losing $15 million worth of other players?

(Mods I have a point here about Alex, bear with me)

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Fair enough but I still don't understand how that some how negates the fact that he's very efficient and...well...pretty good.

I didn't realize there was a NFL bible that said in order to be "elite" or "good" you have to attempt 30 passes/game, throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs, and your team has to rely on you...?

My point is: this is a circular argument based on everyone's view of what a QB "should be like."

I don't think anyone is saying this.

I think people are saying the more a team relies on you to win (as a QB), the more chances you are going to have to make mistakes. Not only are you being asked to throw more, you're often being asked to make more risky throws, especially if you're playing from behind every game and can't settle for 3 and outs, field goals etc.

Alex Smith's QB ratings from games with over 30 attempts-

Bengals: 85.6(30 att)
Eagles: 112.1(33 att)
Lions: 60(32 att)
Giants: 85.7 (30 att)
Cardinals: 81.8 (38 att)

Under 30 attempts-
Seahawks: 90.4 (20 att)
Cowboys: 99.1 (24 att)
Bucs: 127.2 (19 att)
Browns: 98.8 (24 att)
Redskins: 109.7 (24 att)
Ravens: 61.1 (23 att)

It's becoming dangerous to even ask questions about Smith now that he's doing well.

I thought Alex was pretty clutch in the lions game...those stats don't reflect that. Do you remember how many drops we had that game? It was enough to make me sick. Two of them were TDs...small change to the stat line, right?

Also, since when is # of throws = carrying a team? If I can throw 3 passes and score 21 points and hold you to 20 points on defense, I just carried the team on 3 passes. Granted, that's not what happens...but you should get my point.

Sorry Ghost...I'm not saying Alex is elite..because that implies doing it day in and day out season after season...but THIS SEASON, Alex is almost playing at that level. I hope it continues and even gets better.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
1.) Nobody with any common sense is saying Smith isn't good this year/hasn't played well
2.) There's nothing to do or no other answer at this point...Alex is the QB and we're going to live and die with him in 2011
3.) If we wins it all, he deserves all the praise due him including an extension to stay here (IMO)
4.) Should he falter in the playoffs, he should be re-evaluated (is he the long-term answer or can another QB take us to the next level)

Fair enough?

Could say the same thing about every one of our players that are FAs this off season....

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:
...

Three, Jim Harbaugh has been a lightning rod for our team getting nearly all the players to play better. He has overcome early offensive woes by using unconventional formations to take advantage of the talent we have. He has slowly brought Alex along, giving him more and more responsibility each game and as a result Alex's confidence has been on a steady rise.

There are other factors affecting Alex's play for better and for worse(the drops come to mind, the lockout), but these three certainly give Alex a leg-up on most other QBs.

That's not an advantage, that's baseline strategy for bringing along a young quarterback. What's shocking is that Alex hasn't had a coach that can do that for him up to this point.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Fair enough but I still don't understand how that some how negates the fact that he's very efficient and...well...pretty good.

I didn't realize there was a NFL bible that said in order to be "elite" or "good" you have to attempt 30 passes/game, throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs, and your team has to rely on you...?

My point is: this is a circular argument based on everyone's view of what a QB "should be like."

I don't think anyone is saying this.

I think people are saying the more a team relies on you to win (as a QB), the more chances you are going to have to make mistakes. Not only are you being asked to throw more, you're often being asked to make more risky throws, especially if you're playing from behind every game and can't settle for 3 and outs, field goals etc.

Alex Smith's QB ratings from games with over 30 attempts-

Bengals: 85.6(30 att)
Eagles: 112.1(33 att)
Lions: 60(32 att)
Giants: 85.7 (30 att)
Cardinals: 81.8 (38 att)

Under 30 attempts-
Seahawks: 90.4 (20 att)
Cowboys: 99.1 (24 att)
Bucs: 127.2 (19 att)
Browns: 98.8 (24 att)
Redskins: 109.7 (24 att)
Ravens: 61.1 (23 att)

Okay, Baugh - you're right, he's not very good. What should we do? Same question to all the other Smith detractors. What do you guys think the answer is?

1.) Nobody with any common sense is saying Smith isn't good this year/hasn't played well
2.) There's nothing to do or no other answer at this point...Alex is the QB and we're going to live and die with him in 2011
3.) If we wins it all, he deserves all the praise due him including an extension to stay here (IMO)
4.) Should he falter in the playoffs, he should be re-evaluated (is he the long-term answer or can another QB take us to the next level)

Fair enough?

Sounds like a whole lot of backpedalling...

Question for you and the rest of the detractors. Let's say we have a shot at Peyton Manning next season, would you sign him? Understand it will cost us $25 million per year, when we could get Alex for $8-$10 million. So that eats up $15 million that we could have used to sign Carlos Rogers, Dashon Goldson, etc. Do you think Manning is worth losing $15 million worth of other players?

(Mods I have a point here about Alex, bear with me)

Backpedaling?

Neither Ghost nor I mentioned anything close to the statement "Alex is not very good". If someone posted that, I would respond and say they're crazy.

As for the Manning thing, it's way too early to tell. We've got at least 5 more games to play and how Alex plays will be important in determining our future direction with the team. Will he keep improving on the Rams game, or will he take a step back? Will we start turning our lead leading amount of field goals into touchdowns?

I have no doubt Alex has the potential to be a top QB, it's just he hasn't had the consistency of play to deserve that kind of praise yet. I understand people saying he could get there, but anyone saying Alex has arrived or is better than Pillip Rivers, Tony Romo, Eli manning, Matt Schaub or other QBs who have years of good play to fall back on is being a total homer.

Just like anyone saying Alex is not very good is a total hater.

Originally posted by ninermedic:

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:
...

Three, Jim Harbaugh has been a lightning rod for our team getting nearly all the players to play better. He has overcome early offensive woes by using unconventional formations to take advantage of the talent we have. He has slowly brought Alex along, giving him more and more responsibility each game and as a result Alex's confidence has been on a steady rise.

There are other factors affecting Alex's play for better and for worse(the drops come to mind, the lockout), but these three certainly give Alex a leg-up on most other QBs.

That's not an advantage, that's baseline strategy for bringing along a young quarterback. What's shocking is that Alex hasn't had a coach that can do that for him up to this point.

He did...they guy left to go HC the Chargers after making Alex look better for one season.

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by ninermedic:

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:
...

Three, Jim Harbaugh has been a lightning rod for our team getting nearly all the players to play better. He has overcome early offensive woes by using unconventional formations to take advantage of the talent we have. He has slowly brought Alex along, giving him more and more responsibility each game and as a result Alex's confidence has been on a steady rise.

There are other factors affecting Alex's play for better and for worse(the drops come to mind, the lockout), but these three certainly give Alex a leg-up on most other QBs.

That's not an advantage, that's baseline strategy for bringing along a young quarterback. What's shocking is that Alex hasn't had a coach that can do that for him up to this point.

He did...they guy left to go HC the Chargers after making Alex look better for one season.

Fair enough. But I think the case could be made that Nolan's mismanagement (publicly questioning toughness, forcing to play through shoulder injury) was enough to cancel out any of the positive aspects of Turner's tutelage.

point is, that's not a rare advantage, that's a part of almost every good QB's career progression.

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:
Backpedaling?

Neither Ghost nor I mentioned anything close to the statement "Alex is not very good". If someone posted that, I would respond and say they're crazy.

As for the Manning thing, it's way too early to tell. We've got at least 5 more games to play and how Alex plays will be important in determining our future direction with the team. Will he keep improving on the Rams game, or will he take a step back? Will we start turning our lead leading amount of field goals into touchdowns?

I have no doubt Alex has the potential to be a top QB, it's just he hasn't had the consistency of play to deserve that kind of praise yet. I understand people saying he could get there, but anyone saying Alex has arrived or is better than Pillip Rivers, Tony Romo, Eli manning, Matt Schaub or other QBs who have years of good play to fall back on is being a total homer.

Just like anyone saying Alex is not very good is a total hater.

Yes backpedalling. You've been going on and on all day about all sorts of "excuses" for Smith's good play this season. Now all of a sudden when I ask you what the solution to your "problem" is, you're stuck and backtracking. I haven't heard anyone on here say he is better than the elite QB's (although 3 of the 4 you just meantioned are no where near elite, and it's debatable as to them being better than Smith).

The bottom line is he playing excellent football, in a new offense, with a new coach, with no off season. He's still very young. He's been improving steadily throughout the year. The offensive line and WR's have a lot of room for improvement. What makes you think this trend won't continue? And if you do think this trend will continue, why do you still cling to this notion that Smith doesn't/can't/won't/etc?

I think most here can agree that Alex Smith had his best game as a 49er 2 days ago. He was accurate, he hit the long ball, maintained T.O.P and used his feet. Alex has done nothing but get better and better. Every thing a nay sayer has said about him has been proven wrong. If you disagree look at the first page in this thread. Alex has small hands, can't read defenses, can't throw the long ball, check's down too much, can only work out of the shot gun, roll's right to much, no leadership, cracks under pressure, can't lead this team to the playoffs and I could go on and on if I wanted too.

I can barely stand this thread, but say what you will! He has proven these nay-sayers wrong time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time. Again he's done nothing but progress since his first year here. He has his best game 2 days ago, and people still want to find some other excuse for him to prove some unproven theory. Somehow he has plateaued, but there is absolutely no evidence to support that. I can't do anything about it, but I wish you would take accountability for the many times he has showed you things that you said he couldn't do.

Find the most minute thing you can and dwell on it. 10-2 and NFC West Champs doesn't matter. Screw it, Alex missed Tedd Ginn on a pass that never existed. That's a good reason to disregard anything good the guy is doing. Focus on the smaller things, cause I know you are running pretty thin on reasons to dislike the guy. He's proven you wrong multiple times, and there is no reason to not think he's going to do it again.

Go Niners.

Originally posted by Jakemall:
I thought Alex was pretty clutch in the lions game...those stats don't reflect that. Do you remember how many drops we had that game? It was enough to make me sick. Two of them were TDs...small change to the stat line, right?

Also, since when is # of throws = carrying a team? If I can throw 3 passes and score 21 points and hold you to 20 points on defense, I just carried the team on 3 passes. Granted, that's not what happens...but you should get my point.

Sorry Ghost...I'm not saying Alex is elite..because that implies doing it day in and day out season after season...but THIS SEASON, Alex is almost playing at that level. I hope it continues and even gets better.

Alex was very clutch vs. the lions, eagles and giants, I won't deny that. The thing is Tim Tebow has been clutch as well, but that doesn;t make him elite. Being clutch is definitely part of it, but it's not everything.

Don't focus as much on the dropped TDs unless you want to talk about dropped INTs (of which there are 2 or 3 I can recall) or almost fumbles as there have been a few. Almost is a word losing teams use to keep the hope. We ARE NOT an almost team, we're 10-2.

I will say this season Alex has mostly played well and has had elite moments. He's definitely trending in the direction of elite and with more consistency could get there, it's just the NFL doesn't always go like we expect it to.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Fair enough but I still don't understand how that some how negates the fact that he's very efficient and...well...pretty good.

I didn't realize there was a NFL bible that said in order to be "elite" or "good" you have to attempt 30 passes/game, throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs, and your team has to rely on you...?

My point is: this is a circular argument based on everyone's view of what a QB "should be like."

I don't think anyone is saying this.

I think people are saying the more a team relies on you to win (as a QB), the more chances you are going to have to make mistakes. Not only are you being asked to throw more, you're often being asked to make more risky throws, especially if you're playing from behind every game and can't settle for 3 and outs, field goals etc.

Alex Smith's QB ratings from games with over 30 attempts-

Bengals: 85.6(30 att)
Eagles: 112.1(33 att)
Lions: 60(32 att)
Giants: 85.7 (30 att)
Cardinals: 81.8 (38 att)

Under 30 attempts-
Seahawks: 90.4 (20 att)
Cowboys: 99.1 (24 att)
Bucs: 127.2 (19 att)
Browns: 98.8 (24 att)
Redskins: 109.7 (24 att)
Ravens: 61.1 (23 att)

Okay, Baugh - you're right, he's not very good. What should we do? Same question to all the other Smith detractors. What do you guys think the answer is?

1.) Nobody with any common sense is saying Smith isn't good this year/hasn't played well
2.) There's nothing to do or no other answer at this point...Alex is the QB and we're going to live and die with him in 2011
3.) If we wins it all, he deserves all the praise due him including an extension to stay here (IMO)
4.) Should he falter in the playoffs, he should be re-evaluated (is he the long-term answer or can another QB take us to the next level)

Fair enough?

Sounds like a whole lot of backpedalling...

Question for you and the rest of the detractors. Let's say we have a shot at Peyton Manning next season, would you sign him? Understand it will cost us $25 million per year, when we could get Alex for $8-$10 million. So that eats up $15 million that we could have used to sign Carlos Rogers, Dashon Goldson, etc. Do you think Manning is worth losing $15 million worth of other players?

(Mods I have a point here about Alex, bear with me)

Your responses are childish, and you don't seem to get nuance, but I'll answer you anyway. I would sign Peyton Manning in a hot second if we could, because with him as our QB and the defense we have, we would be the odds-on favorite to win it all. What you don't seem to understand is that you can manipulate the cap to spread Manning's cost in such a way that would allow you to sign him and other critical players. Not to even mention that we wouldn't even need a dominating defense if Manning was our QB (see the Colts for the last decade).

So to your question, yes (a healthy) Peyton is worth losing whatever cap space he would eat up. That's hardly debatable.