Alex Smith Thread

Originally posted by cNiner:
Alex Smith never played well or good in any type shape and form , he is playing good this year because of Coaching and improved line after the benching of Chilo ! Alex will always be a Manager !

LOL, I see what you did there

You took my idea, distorted it and then placed it between to asinine statements I would never support nor have ever supported.

You silly guy, you!

Originally posted by Furlow:
Alex Smith stats so far this year:

Yards per game: 199.2 (27th)
Yard per attempt: 7.4 (12th)
Completion percentage: 63.2 (7th)
Touchdowns: 15 (13th)
Interceptions: 5 (1st)
Pass plays of 20+ yards: 32 (15th)
QB rating: 94.9 (7th)

All but the yards per game are average or well above average. I don't need to get into the reasons why his yards per game are low... But one thing I did find is that Smith is last in the league in attempts per game with 26.8. Talk about doing a lot with not much volume...

These are awesome numbers, good job Alex.

Wish there was a way to compare the number of passes alex throws in the 4th quarter comepared to other QB's. I ahve a hunch that he attemps for less passes in teh 4th quarter than other QB's.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

What is the deal with Alex overthrowing wide open recievers along the sideline?

MattB_49:
And you guys accuse the media of being negative? Alex Smith completed 73 percent of his passes, including big drops by Crabtree and Vernon Davis. Both could have been touchdowns. Crabtree's defender was stumbling when the ball went off his hands on a slant at the 10-yard line ...

http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2011/12/chat-with-matt-playoff-bound-49ers.html

But other QBs NEVER overthrow. Why is BeeRows offering Alexcuses??????

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by Furlow:
Alex Smith stats so far this year:

Yards per game: 199.2 (27th)
Yard per attempt: 7.4 (12th)
Completion percentage: 63.2 (7th)
Touchdowns: 15 (13th)
Interceptions: 5 (1st)
Pass plays of 20+ yards: 32 (15th)
QB rating: 94.9 (7th)

All but the yards per game are average or well above average. I don't need to get into the reasons why his yards per game are low... But one thing I did find is that Smith is last in the league in attempts per game with 26.8. Talk about doing a lot with not much volume...

These are awesome numbers, good job Alex.

Wish there was a way to compare the number of passes alex throws in the 4th quarter comepared to other QB's. I ahve a hunch that he attemps for less passes in teh 4th quarter than other QB's.

Good hunch. Most of the time we're winning in the 4th quarter so why throw? He is ranked 7th in the NFL in 4th quarter QB rating however...

Originally posted by Jakemall:
You say you don't want the Alex homers to keep slamming you..then you post this? Really? It's called baiting.

I'd love to hear how you think he has had it easy....really I would.

You're right, I didn't phrase my idea in a very agreeable way, but that doesn't mean I don't think it's right.

I think there is a lot of evidence supporting the idea that our offense has had it easy.

One, our defense is the best in the league. They've forced many turnovers and we have the one of the best average starting field positions on offense. Less ground to cover means less opportunity for mistakes. Any offense would benefit from this kind of defensive play.

Two, we have a good, balanced running game. We have two backs that can run, catch and block and that helps a QB out big time. There's a reason every team we play makes a big deal about trying to stop our running game.

Three, Jim Harbaugh has been a lightning rod for our team getting nearly all the players to play better. He has overcome early offensive woes by using unconventional formations to take advantage of the talent we have. He has slowly brought Alex along, giving him more and more responsibility each game and as a result Alex's confidence has been on a steady rise.

There are other factors affecting Alex's play for better and for worse(the drops come to mind, the lockout), but these three certainly give Alex a leg-up on most other QBs.

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
You're really saying that you wouldn't take Vick, Romo, Rivers, Stafford, Ryan, Eli or even Bradford (on upside) over Alex Smith? Don't get me wrong, Alex is playing much better than he ever has, and the hatred of him no longer makes sense. But let's get real, these other guys would absolutely thrive in this system, knowing it wasn't all on their shoulders to make plays and win games. They wouldn't need to press as much, take as many chances as they currently do and likely be as much if not more effective than Smith.

I wouldn't take one of those guys over Smith, he is playing better than any of those guys and is a better player this year than any of those guys. Bradford is a joke, I don't know why people think he is so great, he sucks, and he sucked last year.

Smith has better overall stats THIS YEAR, but in his career, he doesn't come close to the production/stats/wins of any of the QBs listed above. The funniest part of your post is how quickly you're writing off Bradford, even though it's taken Smith seven seasons to become an effective/winning NFL QB. Nope, no homerism on your part.

This!

Please, someone name another team that Alex could win 10 games with. Maybe the Ravens? I can't think of another.

Don;t get me wrong people, Alex is having a GREAT year, but he's had it easier than any QB in the league IMO.

You say you don't want the Alex homers to keep slamming you..then you post this? Really? It's called baiting.

I'd love to hear how you think he has had it easy....really I would.

Smith has only attempted 321 passes all year. That's fewer than Sam Bradford (328) and he's only played in 9 games due to injury. Bottom line, Smith averages less than 7 attempts per quarter, whereas the majority of NFL QBs average anywhere from 10-8 per quarter.

Doesn't mean Alex is a bad QB, just means he's not asked to throw nearly as much as other NFL QBs. That's making life a little easier on him than say a Drew Brees, Matt Stafford, Tom Brady or even a Cam Newton (who throws it nearly 9 times a quarter).

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
You're really saying that you wouldn't take Vick, Romo, Rivers, Stafford, Ryan, Eli or even Bradford (on upside) over Alex Smith? Don't get me wrong, Alex is playing much better than he ever has, and the hatred of him no longer makes sense. But let's get real, these other guys would absolutely thrive in this system, knowing it wasn't all on their shoulders to make plays and win games. They wouldn't need to press as much, take as many chances as they currently do and likely be as much if not more effective than Smith.

I wouldn't take one of those guys over Smith, he is playing better than any of those guys and is a better player this year than any of those guys. Bradford is a joke, I don't know why people think he is so great, he sucks, and he sucked last year.

Smith has better overall stats THIS YEAR, but in his career, he doesn't come close to the production/stats/wins of any of the QBs listed above. The funniest part of your post is how quickly you're writing off Bradford, even though it's taken Smith seven seasons to become an effective/winning NFL QB. Nope, no homerism on your part.

This!

Please, someone name another team that Alex could win 10 games with. Maybe the Ravens? I can't think of another.

Don;t get me wrong people, Alex is having a GREAT year, but he's had it easier than any QB in the league IMO.

You say you don't want the Alex homers to keep slamming you..then you post this? Really? It's called baiting.

I'd love to hear how you think he has had it easy....really I would.

Smith has only attempted 321 passes all year. That's fewer than Sam Bradford (328) and he's only played in 9 games due to injury. Bottom line, Smith averages less than 7 attempts per quarter, whereas the majority of NFL QBs average anywhere from 10-8 per quarter.

Doesn't mean Alex is a bad QB, just means he's not asked to throw nearly as much as other NFL QBs. That's making life a little easier on him than say a Drew Brees, Matt Stafford, Tom Brady or even a Cam Newton (who throws it nearly 9 times a quarter).

I think it could be hard as well. harder to get into a rythm if your not passing that often. Gues it depends on each individual situation. As noted above, I bet you his pass attempts is much closer to the norm for just first half stats.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
You're really saying that you wouldn't take Vick, Romo, Rivers, Stafford, Ryan, Eli or even Bradford (on upside) over Alex Smith? Don't get me wrong, Alex is playing much better than he ever has, and the hatred of him no longer makes sense. But let's get real, these other guys would absolutely thrive in this system, knowing it wasn't all on their shoulders to make plays and win games. They wouldn't need to press as much, take as many chances as they currently do and likely be as much if not more effective than Smith.

I wouldn't take one of those guys over Smith, he is playing better than any of those guys and is a better player this year than any of those guys. Bradford is a joke, I don't know why people think he is so great, he sucks, and he sucked last year.

Smith has better overall stats THIS YEAR, but in his career, he doesn't come close to the production/stats/wins of any of the QBs listed above. The funniest part of your post is how quickly you're writing off Bradford, even though it's taken Smith seven seasons to become an effective/winning NFL QB. Nope, no homerism on your part.

This!

Please, someone name another team that Alex could win 10 games with. Maybe the Ravens? I can't think of another.

Don;t get me wrong people, Alex is having a GREAT year, but he's had it easier than any QB in the league IMO.

You say you don't want the Alex homers to keep slamming you..then you post this? Really? It's called baiting.

I'd love to hear how you think he has had it easy....really I would.

Smith has only attempted 321 passes all year. That's fewer than Sam Bradford (328) and he's only played in 9 games due to injury. Bottom line, Smith averages less than 7 attempts per quarter, whereas the majority of NFL QBs average anywhere from 10-8 per quarter.

Doesn't mean Alex is a bad QB, just means he's not asked to throw nearly as much as other NFL QBs. That's making life a little easier on him than say a Drew Brees, Matt Stafford, Tom Brady or even a Cam Newton (who throws it nearly 9 times a quarter).

Fair enough but I still don't understand how that some how negates the fact that he's very efficient and...well...pretty good.

I didn't realize there was a NFL bible that said in order to be "elite" or "good" you have to attempt 30 passes/game, throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs, and your team has to rely on you...?

My point is: this is a circular argument based on everyone's view of what a QB "should be like."

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Name some coaches who are doing a better job of putting their players in a position to succeed than Jim Harbaugh and company.

Name some defenses/STs that are as helpful to their offense as ours.

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Why couldn't he win with other teams? I cant see Brady winning with the Dolphins or Rodgers winning with the Rams.

I'm just saying, Alex has been shielded by great coaching and a great defense. Not all teams afford their QBs as much leeway as ours does.

What successful team hasn't shield their QB with great coaching?

And didn't Green Bay and Pittsburgh have the #5 and #2 defenses in the NFL last year, respectively? (Yeah, they did. http://www.nfl.com/stats/team?seasonId=2010&seasonType=&Submit=Go ) They were also #4 and #2 in the NFL in turnover ratio, respectively. C'mon man.

Holy double standards, batman.

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Name some coaches who are doing a better job of putting their players in a position to succeed than Jim Harbaugh and company.

Name some defenses/STs that are as helpful to their offense as ours.

Steelers (1st), Texans (2nd), Ravens (3rd), Bengals (6th), Jets (7th)...

OTC pwns again.


..and is ignored again....of course.

Great post btw.

LOL. I'm used to it, brother.


All this stuff about Alex is in the "perfect situation" is BS. He's in a better situation, but not a perfect one. As I laid out already, he has overcome a number of obstacles. WR injuries, League-Worst Drop rate, Bad line play still (26th in sacks), No OTA, No TC, New staff, New system, etc. etc. ...

Perfect situation? Bull crap.

Originally posted by Furlow:
Good hunch. Most of the time we're winning in the 4th quarter so why throw? He is ranked 7th in the NFL in 4th quarter QB rating however...

in the second half sunday vs rams, alex smith completed 4 of the 5 passes he threw, for 146 yards and 2 tds

for thise hung up on the 300 yard mark, he might have notched one had he had more than 5 attempts in 2nd half--a good exampl in my view of why the 300 yard mark is rather meaningless (in addition to fact many 300 yd passers are on the losing team)

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Again, I ask... where did these stats from earlier come from?

Quote:

1. 49ers, drop rate = 19/286 = 6.64%
2. Jaguars, drop rate = 19/299 = 6.35%
3. Browns, drop rate = 23/375 = 6.13%
4. Rams, drop rate = 23/380 = 6.05%
5. Eagles, drop rate = 23/386 = 5.96%
6. Bears, drop rate = 20/336 = 5.95%
7. Giants, drop rate = 23/387 = 5.94%
8. Chiefs, drop rate = 18/321 = 5.61%
9. Falcons, drop rate = 20/376 = 5.32%
10. Packers, drop rate = 19/377 = 5.11%

Pulled from the Dec. 1 Blog here, http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/53013/dropping-the-ball-eagles-tied-for-nfl-lead .. and calculated by yours truly. After Sunday, 49ers drop rate increased again to 6.8%, despite Alex completing 74% of his passes.

Originally posted by cNiner:

Alex Smith never played well or good in any type shape and form , he is playing good this year because of Coaching and improved line after the benching of Chilo ! Alex will always be a Manager !

Last I checked the 49ers are ranked 26th in the league in sacks. The real difference is the number of hits he's taking. We have marginally improved overall. We can only notice the difference because it was SO bad last year with us being 27th in sacks last year and 4th worst in the league with hits allowed.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by dj43:
...and a big part of this discussion is about the fact that Brees has a team of receivers that are all better than the 49er group.

We brag about how great Vernon Davis is but he would play BEHIND Jimmy Graham in NO. None of the other 49ers would start ahead of Colston, Meachem and Moore...and Darren Sproles is a HUGE threat out of the backfield every time he touches the ball.

Not making any excuse, just stating the facts.

I am not arguing with your premise, or discussing any sort of comparison with Smith and Brees.....but I will argue with you about your assessment of the Saints players.

First of all, I completely agree with you that Jimmy Graham is better than Vernon Davis. What I dont agree with is the idea that he is more than marginally better than Davis. If Vernon Davis and Jimmy Graham switched places, your opinion of who is better probably would too. They are very similar players, and I wish Vernon would be used the way Jimmy is.

I also disagree with your assessment of the wide receivers. Although Colston is unquestionably better than any of our receivers, I would argue that Michael Crabtree is more talented of a receiver than every single one of Lance Moore, Robert Meachem and Devery Henderson. So yes, you are 100% correct that the Saints receiving corps is unquestionably better than ours.....but I completely disagree that Michael Crabtree wouldnt play over the rest of those guys.

As far as Sproles goes, yes he is very good. I think that Kendall Hunter is just as talented as Sproles is....he is just young and figuring things out. There is no reason to believe that Hunter couldnt be every bit as good as Sproles is, if not a lot better.

Since we are in overall agreement, let me elaborate a bit on why I placed the emphasis the way I did:

Since this thread is about Alex Smith and related matters, my emphasis was on the manner in which the NO and SF receivers compare in the passing game.

Graham vs Davis - VD has a clear advantage in straight line speed but that is the only area. Graham has a much more supple body and adjusts very well to balls that are slightly off target. He runs routes like a wide out, not a muscle bound weight lifter. His hands are perhaps the best in the league. The ball just seems to settle in as if drawn by a magnet. He is putting up WR numbers in both number of catches and average yards. Slightly on a tangent but noteworthy; though not the blocker Davis is, he has become very efficient. Wide advantage to NO in the passing game. Davis may be the best receiver among the "blocking" TEs but he isn't in the same class with Graham as a pass catcher.

Since we agree Colston is #1, I'll compare Meachem to Crabtree for the #2 spot - This one is a bit more subtle because we are comparing a 5 year pro (Meachem) who is off to his best start ever to Crabtree who is still operating on potential not actual performance. Meachem wins in just about every area of comparison: speed, defensive reads, route running... Crabtree is reputed to have great hands but hasn't shown it yet. He has shown only a flash here and there and hopefully he is now healthy enough to be able to practice and realize his potential but for now, he is still very much a work in progress.

Moore vs Crabtree - Similar playing styles. Moore is very under-rated nationally but not by those who watch the Saints on a regular basis. Moore makes circus catches on balls that other receivers do not even touch. He has become a favorite of Brees because he hauls in the slightly off target balls that others will not. Moore is unsung by 49er fans but when you watch him play, you appreciate his talent. He is very good. Until Crabtree begins to catch the ball as well and as consistently as Moore, Lance gets the start.

On balance I might consider Crabtree vs Henderson to be a wash. Again, performance vs potential. Henderson has been a solid #2/3 over the past 5 years. His outstanding speed really opens up a lot of other options to Brees. So Crabtree winds up competing to be the #3 receiver if he were on the Saints roster.

I won't go into any of the other 49er receivers because none of them would make the 45 man roster in NO. Too bad.

Sproles vs Hunter - No contest. Sproles is still perhaps the most dangerous "change of pace" back in the league while Hunter is an interesting looking rookie who is performing at a higher level than expected. I think it is that surprise factor that makes us excited about him but he is not close to Sproles in any category.

What stands out in looking at the comparison of NO to SF receivers is that NO has TWO guys with speed to stretch the defense who also catch the ball well. Ginn has similar speed but is not close to either Meachem or Henderson as an overall pass receiver. This speed opens up a lot of things that Brees can do in other areas. (This points out the importance of drafting a speedy wideout next spring.)

So while we might disagree as to the margin of superiority on the Saints, it really doesn't matter. Even a cursory analysis shows that the 49ers need to improve their receiving corp if they want to compete with GB or NO in a shootout type of game.

dj, I have no idea where you are getting your evaluations from. In terms of stats, our guys are as good or better. Now consider the QB and the high flying offense and their WR's are actually under performing if they should be much better.

Colston and Braylon are similar in terms of talent, especially considering Braylon has had some terrible QB's in his career. They are both big, can go deep and run the short route effectively. Braylon's best year was when the Browns had a QB who was semi lighting it up and Braylon's best year was much better than Colston's best year. That shows you his potential.

Robert Meachem and Crabtree: Meachem appears to have speed but we still don't know how fast Crabtree is. Crabtree is actually having a better year than Meachem. Crabtree also has displayed some great quickness and run after catch ability along with breaking tackles.

Henderson vs Morgan: Henderson is on a fast decline and Morgan looked to be on the way up. Morgan also outperformed Henderson the last 2 years.

Sproles is slightly greater than Williams but Williams has more potential in the yards per catch category whereas Sproles mainly gets screens and checkdowns.

Lance Moore is the only receiver that we don't compare to but Williams has the talent for this considering Sproles is a RB.


Now factor in that they have one of the greatest QB's ever and we DO have talent at the receiver spot.

I only considered receivers that have had an impact on the season and/or may have an impact during the rest of the season.

I agree Edwards has potential to equal Colston but in a consideration of has happened to this point, he has not had an impact.

My overall evaluation is based on my own research and evaluation combined with what I have heard/read about NO. Until SF receivers all get healthy and actually begin to perform on the field, the NO group is clearly superior.

In that case,

Crabtree = Colston are a wash but if you take into consideration the past 4 weeks, Crabtree is playing better right now.
Graham > Davis: personally, I think Davis' talent is over rated altogether in terms of what's required for the position.
Lance Moore > Ginn but I have a feeling Kyle Williams will give him a run for his money
Henderson is only slightly better than either Delanie in terms of catches but exceeds him in yards. We use Delanie in a different way.

Now, would you like to take into consideration their QB because their WR's are not lighting the world on fire and they pass a WHOLE lot more.

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Baugh_Area:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
You're really saying that you wouldn't take Vick, Romo, Rivers, Stafford, Ryan, Eli or even Bradford (on upside) over Alex Smith? Don't get me wrong, Alex is playing much better than he ever has, and the hatred of him no longer makes sense. But let's get real, these other guys would absolutely thrive in this system, knowing it wasn't all on their shoulders to make plays and win games. They wouldn't need to press as much, take as many chances as they currently do and likely be as much if not more effective than Smith.

I wouldn't take one of those guys over Smith, he is playing better than any of those guys and is a better player this year than any of those guys. Bradford is a joke, I don't know why people think he is so great, he sucks, and he sucked last year.

Smith has better overall stats THIS YEAR, but in his career, he doesn't come close to the production/stats/wins of any of the QBs listed above. The funniest part of your post is how quickly you're writing off Bradford, even though it's taken Smith seven seasons to become an effective/winning NFL QB. Nope, no homerism on your part.

This!

Please, someone name another team that Alex could win 10 games with. Maybe the Ravens? I can't think of another.

Don;t get me wrong people, Alex is having a GREAT year, but he's had it easier than any QB in the league IMO.

You say you don't want the Alex homers to keep slamming you..then you post this? Really? It's called baiting.

I'd love to hear how you think he has had it easy....really I would.

Smith has only attempted 321 passes all year. That's fewer than Sam Bradford (328) and he's only played in 9 games due to injury. Bottom line, Smith averages less than 7 attempts per quarter, whereas the majority of NFL QBs average anywhere from 10-8 per quarter.

Doesn't mean Alex is a bad QB, just means he's not asked to throw nearly as much as other NFL QBs. That's making life a little easier on him than say a Drew Brees, Matt Stafford, Tom Brady or even a Cam Newton (who throws it nearly 9 times a quarter).

Fair enough but I still don't understand how that some how negates the fact that he's very efficient and...well...pretty good.

I didn't realize there was a NFL bible that said in order to be "elite" or "good" you have to attempt 30 passes/game, throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs, and your team has to rely on you...?

My point is: this is a circular argument based on everyone's view of what a QB "should be like."

I think you're misunderstanding my point. The question I answered wasn't about good or bad quarterbacking, it was about how Alex has had it easier (he has).

So I wasn't trying to negate the fact that Alex has played very well this year (he has, and anyone who says otherwise is ignoring the facts). I was just saying that compared to others, he's not had to throw nearly as much...whether that's by design or circumstance (we've seldom been behind this year by more than a few scores), he's had it easier than most.

Now, that's been a winning formula so far. However, the question needs to be asked/answered, "if/when he has to throw a lot, say in a come-from-behind scenario in a playoff game, how will he do?"

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by Joecool:
In a way, I don't mind at all that Alex has limitations in his ability to pass the ball. I think teams that have those QB's who can make any throw from any position to any location on the field end up relying too much on that and so does the QB. They end up getting away from play design and other variables that make a play work.

With a QB that can play well but does rely on the coach being creative and smart at times keeps the offense cohesive in all areas. I think that's what hurt guys like Marino and Elway. I think that's what hurt coaches who coached Brett Favre and Manning. Yes, there a coaches who refuse to get this tunnel vision like Holmgren with Favre and Shanny with Elway but most coaches and QB's lose their base.

Montana and Young were limited compared to the greater arms in the league but that forced them to rely more upon The Plan the coach provides which produces a more balanced offense.

Great point.

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Fair enough but I still don't understand how that some how negates the fact that he's very efficient and...well...pretty good.

I didn't realize there was a NFL bible that said in order to be "elite" or "good" you have to attempt 30 passes/game, throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs, and your team has to rely on you...?

My point is: this is a circular argument based on everyone's view of what a QB "should be like."

I don't think anyone is saying this.

I think people are saying the more a team relies on you to win (as a QB), the more chances you are going to have to make mistakes. Not only are you being asked to throw more, you're often being asked to make more risky throws, especially if you're playing from behind every game and can't settle for 3 and outs, field goals etc.

Alex Smith's QB ratings from games with over 30 attempts-

Bengals: 85.6(30 att)
Eagles: 112.1(33 att)
Lions: 60(32 att)
Giants: 85.7 (30 att)
Cardinals: 81.8 (38 att)

Under 30 attempts-
Seahawks: 90.4 (20 att)
Cowboys: 99.1 (24 att)
Bucs: 127.2 (19 att)
Browns: 98.8 (24 att)
Redskins: 109.7 (24 att)
Ravens: 61.1 (23 att)