IF we can only keep one

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

That is what I am saying, pay him, just don't over pay him. We got no one that can step right in and take his place. Soap was not good there, RJF looked okay in preseason last year, but it is a very important position in a 3-4.

Memphis, I am trying to understand your position, since we tend to agree on most Niner topics.


I am certain you must know the distinction of Sop playing 2-gap NT in the past (rather poorly) and then the concept of him playing 1-gap NT for Fangio in the near future. So... why the bolded?

I of course agree about the importance of the position. We may give up a little vs the run game... maybe.... but don't you think Sop can get better pass rush penetration up the gut than the zero that Franklin generally gets? Are we not to strive for a better pass rush that's been painfully lacking?

You must realize that we would have to give Franklin an outrageously bloated contract to stay... right? So why then say "don't overpay him" ?

I figure that since Sopoaga doesn't get much push as an end, moving him to the middle won't change much. I think Franklin is better than some here are giving him credit for is what my point is. Is Sopoaga starting at left end because he is the best candidate for the position, of because he wasn't getting the job done at NT? I am just stating my opinion, I could easily be wrong, Sopoaga might become great as a 1 gap tackle, but if that is the case, why didn't we have him there all along? He certainly has the size and strength to take up space. My point is that he is widely held to be one of the better NTs in the game, so why not pay him like one? Good ones just do not come around often, so when you have one it is wise to put a little effort into keeping him. I am posting from my HTC, of I would dig up the numbers of the guys considered the top notch NTs, so they could be compared with Franklin. Like I said, I am no expert, but if you have a good player at a position that is hard to fill, it is smart to make an effort to keep him.

Special X (correspondent for Bleacher Report) rated Franklyn 4th a year ago...for what that's worth. KC SB Nation says he is one of the "very best." FNN lists him as an honorable mention.

So, his price tag might be outrageous but unless a current player is capable of coming in and playing the 9ers should sign him. It's not likely a FA would be cheaper and as good. Of course, Fangio might have an eye on some guys who could fit his system.

As for McDonald, he is really good when not injured but he seems not suited for every down play. Plus, he isn't a NT and why would someone want to pair the two in this way? You could throw in Clements and Lawson as well.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Sopoaga might become great as a 1 gap tackle, but if that is the case, why didn't we have him there all along?

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Sopoaga doesn't get much push as an end, moving him to the middle won't change much.

Sopoaga's job at LDE was to anchor and occupy OL/TE so the others could better function in their tasks. Our scheme had Justin and Franklin primarily 1-gapping. Someone has to be the stout plugger on the LOS, and that role fell on Sopoaga because he's the only one that could effectively do it. We tried Franklin in the Nolan days, and he was really not often stout enough to anchor vs an extra OL. We don't yet know what Sopoaga can do if asked to penetrate A gaps as opposed to just being stout in protecting both A gaps.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
he is widely held to be one of the better NTs in the game, so why not pay him like one?

I felt he declined last season and simply think he's overrated a bit. Above average run-stopper, but I'd like more from a NT in Fangio's more aggressive scheme.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
or I would dig up the numbers of the guys considered the top notch NTs, so they could be compared with Franklin

I don't think that research would amount to much anyway. Numbers for a NT are not likely to give much of the real story.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
if you have a good player at a position that is hard to fill, it is smart to make an effort to keep him.

An effort to keep him is reasonable, but from all sounds of it, he is expecting an insane amount for his services. I think there's a reason for why we seem unwilling to pony up those insane figures... that reason being he wouldn't be worth the cost in this new scheme.

If Franklin was so good at frequently keep 2 OL busy... allowing Willis and TKO freedom, then yes... re-sign him... he would be a must-keep. But our ILB have to constantly fight off 2nd level blocks anyway. So I like the idea of letting Franklin get overpaid elsewhere.

I still want a FA like Brandon Mebane though... that addition increases our DL quality, and allows for a more versatile line-up.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Sopoaga might become great as a 1 gap tackle, but if that is the case, why didn't we have him there all along?

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Sopoaga doesn't get much push as an end, moving him to the middle won't change much.

Sopoaga's job at LDE was to anchor and occupy OL/TE so the others could better function in their tasks. Our scheme had Justin and Franklin primarily 1-gapping. Someone has to be the stout plugger on the LOS, and that role fell on Sopoaga because he's the only one that could effectively do it. We tried Franklin in the Nolan days, and he was really not often stout enough to anchor vs an extra OL. We don't yet know what Sopoaga can do if asked to penetrate A gaps as opposed to just being stout in protecting both A gaps.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
he is widely held to be one of the better NTs in the game, so why not pay him like one?

I felt he declined last season and simply think he's overrated a bit. Above average run-stopper, but I'd like more from a NT in Fangio's more aggressive scheme.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
or I would dig up the numbers of the guys considered the top notch NTs, so they could be compared with Franklin

I don't think that research would amount to much anyway. Numbers for a NT are not likely to give much of the real story.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
if you have a good player at a position that is hard to fill, it is smart to make an effort to keep him.

An effort to keep him is reasonable, but from all sounds of it, he is expecting an insane amount for his services. I think there's a reason for why we seem unwilling to pony up those insane figures... that reason being he wouldn't be worth the cost in this new scheme.

If Franklin was so good at frequently keep 2 OL busy... allowing Willis and TKO freedom, then yes... re-sign him... he would be a must-keep. But our ILB have to constantly fight off 2nd level blocks anyway. So I like the idea of letting Franklin get overpaid elsewhere.

I still want a FA like Brandon Mebane though... that addition increases our DL quality, and allows for a more versatile line-up.

That is why I say pay him, just do not over pay him. He is worth top ten NT money, but if someone comes along and wants to make him the highest paid NT, then let them. Also, he wasn't the only player on defense that had a rough year, the defense as a whole regressed. Once again, my belief is that if you have a player that is considered by his peers to be amongst the best at his position, you have to make every REASONABLE attempt to keep him, especially if you are not reasonably sure the next guy in line is up to the task.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
my belief is that if you have a player that is considered by his peers to be amongst the best at his position, you have to make every REASONABLE attempt to keep him, especially if you are not reasonably sure the next guy in line is up to the task.

Definitely wouldn't argue with this much. I just don't think the cost will be reasonable, and because of that alone, I am finding reasons for optimism (and possibly legit reasons) that we may be just fine or better with Sopoaga in his new role of NT.

I don't think our run defense would suffer much at all from Franklin to Sopoaga, and maybe just maybe we actually start getting some interior pressure on opposing QBs with the change.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
my belief is that if you have a player that is considered by his peers to be amongst the best at his position, you have to make every REASONABLE attempt to keep him, especially if you are not reasonably sure the next guy in line is up to the task.

Definitely wouldn't argue with this much. I just don't think the cost will be reasonable, and because of that alone, I am finding reasons for optimism (and possibly legit reasons) that we may be just fine or better with Sopoaga in his new role of NT.

I don't think our run defense would suffer much at all from Franklin to Sopoaga, and maybe just maybe we actually start getting some interior pressure on opposing QBs with the change.

Agreed, I would also like to add it is a pleasure to be able to have civil discourse with an intelligent poster without it turning into a heated argument. My respects to you sir.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
my belief is that if you have a player that is considered by his peers to be amongst the best at his position, you have to make every REASONABLE attempt to keep him, especially if you are not reasonably sure the next guy in line is up to the task.

Definitely wouldn't argue with this much. I just don't think the cost will be reasonable, and because of that alone, I am finding reasons for optimism (and possibly legit reasons) that we may be just fine or better with Sopoaga in his new role of NT.

I don't think our run defense would suffer much at all from Franklin to Sopoaga, and maybe just maybe we actually start getting some interior pressure on opposing QBs with the change.

Agreed, I would also like to add it is a pleasure to be able to have civil discourse with an intelligent poster without it turning into a heated argument. My respects to you sir.

Well, we can't have this!

Franklin is teh suxorz !!! Take that!

dam i was looking for name calling when i came back to this thread

I notice Franklin's production dipped this past season from the previous season. Also Willis numbers were down (but still great) from the past season as well. I was wondering if anyone thinks that these two players drop in production are related in anyway ?

Originally posted by JustaFan45:
I notice Franklin's production dipped this past season from the previous season. Also Willis numbers were down (but still great) from the past season as well. I was wondering if anyone thinks that these two players drop in production are related in anyway ?

Just seemed to me that Willis and TKO were taking on 2nd level blocks more frequently. They are so good at fighting off those blocks to minimize the damage, but yes, way too often were they having to disengage from blockers to do their job.