Team Workouts Thread

Quote:
Are you seriously comparing Sing's smash mouth up the gut system with the system Bono and Grbac played in? Are you frigging serious?

Andre Johnson is a beast....he's better than Crabs....he's faster...a lot of his TD's are based off of sheer speed. Crabs is not that kind of WR. Now what other receivers have put up big numbers with crappy QB's and systems?

How did TO do with Trent Edwards throwing him balls?
How did Brandon Marshall do with Henne throwing him balls?
How did Megatron do with Daunte Culpepper throwing him balls?
How did Fitz do with Anderson, Skelton, Hall throwing him balls?[/quote]

better than crabs last yeat

Originally posted by E-49er:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by E-49er:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by ads_2006:
crabtree is going to be our best wr

regardless if he works out with the team or not

dude held out till November and was still the leading WR. 2nd only to vernon overall on the team

last year he had career lows of receptions in games and had to deal with a changing cast of qbs, offensive coordinators and still was the leading WR and 2nd only to vernon overall on the team.

Wouldnt be surprised if crabtree shows up when Kapernick is the one throwing the ball.

He was the most targeted receiver by a large margin and yet came in at #2, and barely beat out Morgan for that spot.

I was talking yards not catches btw.

VD - Targetted 93 times, made 56 catches for 914 yards
Crabs - Targetted 101 times, made 55 catches for 741 yards
Morgan - Targetted 80 times, made 44 catches for 698 yards.

But yeah, when your 1st rounder can barely contribute more than your 6th rounder... he just flat out needs to get better.

We just flat out need to bring in some FA competition. Crabtree and Morgan are not keeping DCs up at night.

Exactly. They have 2 slow wr's with 0 athleticism. Not to mention Ginn who is fast but can't catch and scared to run routes. Long term effects of run 1st/play good defense built team. Having no speed at WR and CB are major problems.

To make matters worse at least 5/6 wr's were drafted later than Crabtree are simply outplaying him. He needs to step it up.

Nicks and Maclin are the only ones that are realy playin better and most of what Maclin has done was due to a great offense. Crabtree doesnt have the heart to become a great WR or the skill set.

What does a wide receiver need to become effective? And by the way I dont agree that Crabtree lacks either heart or the skill set. And other than 49er fans who havent got over their pique at his holdout there is little evidence, in view of the state of the team last year, to support this. With a line playing well together, which I am hoping for, and a qb handling the game rather better, which I am praying for, and a coaching staff coaching and playcalling significantly better, which I confidently expect, it will be interesting to see what he can do. Players rarely put it together at college and achieve the reputation he did, if they have no heart. I think he lacked coaching, support and the development every young player needs. Lets see how this year goes before we write him off.

I stand by what I said. He will NEVER be great. That doesnt mean he cant be good. Do you think he could ever be a top-5 WR?(not of all time jus right now)

How the hell do you know?

Never is a bit of a strong statement... but I don't think he will ever be a top 5 wr while on the Niners. He is the exact same caliber of WR he was as a rookie, he hasn't progressed at all. We had a great rookie... now we have an average #1 WR at best.

He seems like the type of player that hears all the criticism and takes it personally... rather than trying to prove his doubters wrong. The only way he becomes great is when he either mans the F up and puts in the effort or Jerry Jones makes another ridiculous Roy Williams type deal and puts him back in Dallas where he wants to be.

Players that want to be great refuse to settle when they've made a mistake... remember the first nutcracker drill when a player got the better of VD and he refused to go to the back of the line till he got another shot at that player to redeem himself. Crabtree has the talent, but he doesn't display that type of intensity or passion. IMO he is Fitzgerald if Fitz was just complacent and never strived to get better after college.

How can he progress when he missed time his rookie season due to holding out. He had the following QB's throwing him balls... Alex Smith, Troy Smith and Shaun Hill. He played in a run first offense.

Say what you want, given the circumstances he's played pretty well...look at his stats.

Also, I'd like to see what he can do in a good system and a competent receiver throwing him balls. Not every elite receiver in the league is a "yes" man "work hard" "leader" type guy. I mean, he's a receiver...he's a diva....don't try to apply FB traits to a receiver.

As far as him not being top 5. I don't think he will be with Alex as his QB.

if you go through every team in the NFL jus about everyone has a better number one. i dont think it will matter who the QB is he is not that good. TJ husmanzada 2.0

And the 9ers have arguably the worst starting QB in the league, WTF is your point? Fitzgerald's stats dropped quite a bit last year. Megatron's stats dropped quite a bit in his 2nd year as well. Did they just suck those years or were their QB's inept? You can be a great receiver, but if your QB doesn't get you the ball you will be ineffective.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that a receiver requires solid QB play to be effective?

Andre Johnson was puting up numbers with David Carr and then Sage Rosenfels as his QB. Jerry had good games with back ups like Bono and Grbac filling in when Young and Montana got injured. Sometimes great recievers just get open and get the ball no matter who is covering them. Crabtree doesnt seem like that.

One thing you failed to mention is that Houston and the 49ers had systems in place that were offensive minded. Crabtree has had neanderthal coaching by Sullivan and Singletary since he has been here. Lets not forget Sully had failed to produce a number one receiver for this team in his whole tenure here and Nolan and Singletary knew nothing about offense. Crabtree has to take some of the blame because of his lack of work ethic but he is full of talent. I can only imagine what he could accomplish if Rice could mentor Crabtree and show him how to work hard in this league much like Roger Craig help Jerry learn. He has to want to be great and Im not sure if that passion for the game is there.

That's my problem with him. I know he has talent, I really wanted us to pick him in 2009. But he hasnt shown the work to go with it and let that talent shine. He still has good size, shiftiness, and really long arms. If he worked like Rice did he could be a number one option for sure. But IIRC he even shied away from Jerry because Jerry was a little bit critical of him.

The way I see it and you might agree is Crabtree's downfall has been: 1) Bad work ethic/no passion 2) bad offensive system/coaching 3) Lack of talent at QB 4) Crabtree's lack of talent. In that order. A competitor would have taken Jerry's comments and used that as fuel to prove him wrong not shy away from the guy.

Please explain to me how he has bad work ethic? Please provide proof...not stupid speculation.

Being injured during a preseason all of a sudden means you have no work ethic. Hillarious.

Lets be real, people are angry cuz of the hold out and for whatever reason can't let it go.

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by E-49er:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by E-49er:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by ads_2006:
crabtree is going to be our best wr

regardless if he works out with the team or not

dude held out till November and was still the leading WR. 2nd only to vernon overall on the team

last year he had career lows of receptions in games and had to deal with a changing cast of qbs, offensive coordinators and still was the leading WR and 2nd only to vernon overall on the team.

Wouldnt be surprised if crabtree shows up when Kapernick is the one throwing the ball.

He was the most targeted receiver by a large margin and yet came in at #2, and barely beat out Morgan for that spot.

I was talking yards not catches btw.

VD - Targetted 93 times, made 56 catches for 914 yards
Crabs - Targetted 101 times, made 55 catches for 741 yards
Morgan - Targetted 80 times, made 44 catches for 698 yards.

But yeah, when your 1st rounder can barely contribute more than your 6th rounder... he just flat out needs to get better.

We just flat out need to bring in some FA competition. Crabtree and Morgan are not keeping DCs up at night.

Exactly. They have 2 slow wr's with 0 athleticism. Not to mention Ginn who is fast but can't catch and scared to run routes. Long term effects of run 1st/play good defense built team. Having no speed at WR and CB are major problems.

To make matters worse at least 5/6 wr's were drafted later than Crabtree are simply outplaying him. He needs to step it up.

Nicks and Maclin are the only ones that are realy playin better and most of what Maclin has done was due to a great offense. Crabtree doesnt have the heart to become a great WR or the skill set.

What does a wide receiver need to become effective? And by the way I dont agree that Crabtree lacks either heart or the skill set. And other than 49er fans who havent got over their pique at his holdout there is little evidence, in view of the state of the team last year, to support this. With a line playing well together, which I am hoping for, and a qb handling the game rather better, which I am praying for, and a coaching staff coaching and playcalling significantly better, which I confidently expect, it will be interesting to see what he can do. Players rarely put it together at college and achieve the reputation he did, if they have no heart. I think he lacked coaching, support and the development every young player needs. Lets see how this year goes before we write him off.

I stand by what I said. He will NEVER be great. That doesnt mean he cant be good. Do you think he could ever be a top-5 WR?(not of all time jus right now)

How the hell do you know?

Never is a bit of a strong statement... but I don't think he will ever be a top 5 wr while on the Niners. He is the exact same caliber of WR he was as a rookie, he hasn't progressed at all. We had a great rookie... now we have an average #1 WR at best.

He seems like the type of player that hears all the criticism and takes it personally... rather than trying to prove his doubters wrong. The only way he becomes great is when he either mans the F up and puts in the effort or Jerry Jones makes another ridiculous Roy Williams type deal and puts him back in Dallas where he wants to be.

Players that want to be great refuse to settle when they've made a mistake... remember the first nutcracker drill when a player got the better of VD and he refused to go to the back of the line till he got another shot at that player to redeem himself. Crabtree has the talent, but he doesn't display that type of intensity or passion. IMO he is Fitzgerald if Fitz was just complacent and never strived to get better after college.

How can he progress when he missed time his rookie season due to holding out. He had the following QB's throwing him balls... Alex Smith, Troy Smith and Shaun Hill. He played in a run first offense.

Say what you want, given the circumstances he's played pretty well...look at his stats.

Also, I'd like to see what he can do in a good system and a competent receiver throwing him balls. Not every elite receiver in the league is a "yes" man "work hard" "leader" type guy. I mean, he's a receiver...he's a diva....don't try to apply FB traits to a receiver.

As far as him not being top 5. I don't think he will be with Alex as his QB.

if you go through every team in the NFL jus about everyone has a better number one. i dont think it will matter who the QB is he is not that good. TJ husmanzada 2.0

And the 9ers have arguably the worst starting QB in the league, WTF is your point? Fitzgerald's stats dropped quite a bit last year. Megatron's stats dropped quite a bit in his 2nd year as well. Did they just suck those years or were their QB's inept? You can be a great receiver, but if your QB doesn't get you the ball you will be ineffective.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that a receiver requires solid QB play to be effective?

Andre Johnson was puting up numbers with David Carr and then Sage Rosenfels as his QB. Jerry had good games with back ups like Bono and Grbac filling in when Young and Montana got injured. Sometimes great recievers just get open and get the ball no matter who is covering them. Crabtree doesnt seem like that.

One thing you failed to mention is that Houston and the 49ers had systems in place that were offensive minded. Crabtree has had neanderthal coaching by Sullivan and Singletary since he has been here. Lets not forget Sully had failed to produce a number one receiver for this team in his whole tenure here and Nolan and Singletary knew nothing about offense. Crabtree has to take some of the blame because of his lack of work ethic but he is full of talent. I can only imagine what he could accomplish if Rice could mentor Crabtree and show him how to work hard in this league much like Roger Craig help Jerry learn. He has to want to be great and Im not sure if that passion for the game is there.

That's my problem with him. I know he has talent, I really wanted us to pick him in 2009. But he hasnt shown the work to go with it and let that talent shine. He still has good size, shiftiness, and really long arms. If he worked like Rice did he could be a number one option for sure. But IIRC he even shied away from Jerry because Jerry was a little bit critical of him.

The way I see it and you might agree is Crabtree's downfall has been: 1) Bad work ethic/no passion 2) bad offensive system/coaching 3) Lack of talent at QB 4) Crabtree's lack of talent. In that order. A competitor would have taken Jerry's comments and used that as fuel to prove him wrong not shy away from the guy.

Please explain to me how he has bad work ethic? Please provide proof...not stupid speculation.

Being injured during a preseason all of a sudden means you have no work ethic. Hillarious.

Lets be real, people are angry cuz of the hold out and for whatever reason can't let it go.

so are you happy with his play up to this point?

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by E-49er:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by E-49er:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by ads_2006:
crabtree is going to be our best wr

regardless if he works out with the team or not

dude held out till November and was still the leading WR. 2nd only to vernon overall on the team

last year he had career lows of receptions in games and had to deal with a changing cast of qbs, offensive coordinators and still was the leading WR and 2nd only to vernon overall on the team.

Wouldnt be surprised if crabtree shows up when Kapernick is the one throwing the ball.

He was the most targeted receiver by a large margin and yet came in at #2, and barely beat out Morgan for that spot.

I was talking yards not catches btw.

VD - Targetted 93 times, made 56 catches for 914 yards
Crabs - Targetted 101 times, made 55 catches for 741 yards
Morgan - Targetted 80 times, made 44 catches for 698 yards.

But yeah, when your 1st rounder can barely contribute more than your 6th rounder... he just flat out needs to get better.

We just flat out need to bring in some FA competition. Crabtree and Morgan are not keeping DCs up at night.

Exactly. They have 2 slow wr's with 0 athleticism. Not to mention Ginn who is fast but can't catch and scared to run routes. Long term effects of run 1st/play good defense built team. Having no speed at WR and CB are major problems.

To make matters worse at least 5/6 wr's were drafted later than Crabtree are simply outplaying him. He needs to step it up.

Nicks and Maclin are the only ones that are realy playin better and most of what Maclin has done was due to a great offense. Crabtree doesnt have the heart to become a great WR or the skill set.

What does a wide receiver need to become effective? And by the way I dont agree that Crabtree lacks either heart or the skill set. And other than 49er fans who havent got over their pique at his holdout there is little evidence, in view of the state of the team last year, to support this. With a line playing well together, which I am hoping for, and a qb handling the game rather better, which I am praying for, and a coaching staff coaching and playcalling significantly better, which I confidently expect, it will be interesting to see what he can do. Players rarely put it together at college and achieve the reputation he did, if they have no heart. I think he lacked coaching, support and the development every young player needs. Lets see how this year goes before we write him off.

I stand by what I said. He will NEVER be great. That doesnt mean he cant be good. Do you think he could ever be a top-5 WR?(not of all time jus right now)

How the hell do you know?

Never is a bit of a strong statement... but I don't think he will ever be a top 5 wr while on the Niners. He is the exact same caliber of WR he was as a rookie, he hasn't progressed at all. We had a great rookie... now we have an average #1 WR at best.

He seems like the type of player that hears all the criticism and takes it personally... rather than trying to prove his doubters wrong. The only way he becomes great is when he either mans the F up and puts in the effort or Jerry Jones makes another ridiculous Roy Williams type deal and puts him back in Dallas where he wants to be.

Players that want to be great refuse to settle when they've made a mistake... remember the first nutcracker drill when a player got the better of VD and he refused to go to the back of the line till he got another shot at that player to redeem himself. Crabtree has the talent, but he doesn't display that type of intensity or passion. IMO he is Fitzgerald if Fitz was just complacent and never strived to get better after college.

How can he progress when he missed time his rookie season due to holding out. He had the following QB's throwing him balls... Alex Smith, Troy Smith and Shaun Hill. He played in a run first offense.

Say what you want, given the circumstances he's played pretty well...look at his stats.

Also, I'd like to see what he can do in a good system and a competent receiver throwing him balls. Not every elite receiver in the league is a "yes" man "work hard" "leader" type guy. I mean, he's a receiver...he's a diva....don't try to apply FB traits to a receiver.

As far as him not being top 5. I don't think he will be with Alex as his QB.

if you go through every team in the NFL jus about everyone has a better number one. i dont think it will matter who the QB is he is not that good. TJ husmanzada 2.0

And the 9ers have arguably the worst starting QB in the league, WTF is your point? Fitzgerald's stats dropped quite a bit last year. Megatron's stats dropped quite a bit in his 2nd year as well. Did they just suck those years or were their QB's inept? You can be a great receiver, but if your QB doesn't get you the ball you will be ineffective.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that a receiver requires solid QB play to be effective?

Andre Johnson was puting up numbers with David Carr and then Sage Rosenfels as his QB. Jerry had good games with back ups like Bono and Grbac filling in when Young and Montana got injured. Sometimes great recievers just get open and get the ball no matter who is covering them. Crabtree doesnt seem like that.

One thing you failed to mention is that Houston and the 49ers had systems in place that were offensive minded. Crabtree has had neanderthal coaching by Sullivan and Singletary since he has been here. Lets not forget Sully had failed to produce a number one receiver for this team in his whole tenure here and Nolan and Singletary knew nothing about offense. Crabtree has to take some of the blame because of his lack of work ethic but he is full of talent. I can only imagine what he could accomplish if Rice could mentor Crabtree and show him how to work hard in this league much like Roger Craig help Jerry learn. He has to want to be great and Im not sure if that passion for the game is there.

That's my problem with him. I know he has talent, I really wanted us to pick him in 2009. But he hasnt shown the work to go with it and let that talent shine. He still has good size, shiftiness, and really long arms. If he worked like Rice did he could be a number one option for sure. But IIRC he even shied away from Jerry because Jerry was a little bit critical of him.

The way I see it and you might agree is Crabtree's downfall has been: 1) Bad work ethic/no passion 2) bad offensive system/coaching 3) Lack of talent at QB 4) Crabtree's lack of talent. In that order. A competitor would have taken Jerry's comments and used that as fuel to prove him wrong not shy away from the guy.

Please explain to me how he has bad work ethic? Please provide proof...not stupid speculation.

Being injured during a preseason all of a sudden means you have no work ethic. Hillarious.

Lets be real, people are angry cuz of the hold out and for whatever reason can't let it go.

so are you happy with his play up to this point?

Dude, I asked you to provide proof on his lack of work ethic. He played very well in his rookie season. This year he regressed a bit, but so did every player on this team including Willis and Vernon so I don't get what all the hoopla is about.

There's no doubt in my mind in a competent offensive system and a competent QB he'd be a 10TD 1000 yard receiver. No doubt in my mind.

But for whatever reason 9er fans have such ridiculously high expectations for a 2nd year receiver and considerably low expectations for a 6 year QB.

It annoys me how excuses are made for the QB but those excuses aren't extended to the players around him. Why is that?

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by E-49er:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by E-49er:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by ads_2006:
crabtree is going to be our best wr

regardless if he works out with the team or not

dude held out till November and was still the leading WR. 2nd only to vernon overall on the team

last year he had career lows of receptions in games and had to deal with a changing cast of qbs, offensive coordinators and still was the leading WR and 2nd only to vernon overall on the team.

Wouldnt be surprised if crabtree shows up when Kapernick is the one throwing the ball.

He was the most targeted receiver by a large margin and yet came in at #2, and barely beat out Morgan for that spot.

I was talking yards not catches btw.

VD - Targetted 93 times, made 56 catches for 914 yards
Crabs - Targetted 101 times, made 55 catches for 741 yards
Morgan - Targetted 80 times, made 44 catches for 698 yards.

But yeah, when your 1st rounder can barely contribute more than your 6th rounder... he just flat out needs to get better.

We just flat out need to bring in some FA competition. Crabtree and Morgan are not keeping DCs up at night.

Exactly. They have 2 slow wr's with 0 athleticism. Not to mention Ginn who is fast but can't catch and scared to run routes. Long term effects of run 1st/play good defense built team. Having no speed at WR and CB are major problems.

To make matters worse at least 5/6 wr's were drafted later than Crabtree are simply outplaying him. He needs to step it up.

Nicks and Maclin are the only ones that are realy playin better and most of what Maclin has done was due to a great offense. Crabtree doesnt have the heart to become a great WR or the skill set.

What does a wide receiver need to become effective? And by the way I dont agree that Crabtree lacks either heart or the skill set. And other than 49er fans who havent got over their pique at his holdout there is little evidence, in view of the state of the team last year, to support this. With a line playing well together, which I am hoping for, and a qb handling the game rather better, which I am praying for, and a coaching staff coaching and playcalling significantly better, which I confidently expect, it will be interesting to see what he can do. Players rarely put it together at college and achieve the reputation he did, if they have no heart. I think he lacked coaching, support and the development every young player needs. Lets see how this year goes before we write him off.

I stand by what I said. He will NEVER be great. That doesnt mean he cant be good. Do you think he could ever be a top-5 WR?(not of all time jus right now)

How the hell do you know?

Never is a bit of a strong statement... but I don't think he will ever be a top 5 wr while on the Niners. He is the exact same caliber of WR he was as a rookie, he hasn't progressed at all. We had a great rookie... now we have an average #1 WR at best.

He seems like the type of player that hears all the criticism and takes it personally... rather than trying to prove his doubters wrong. The only way he becomes great is when he either mans the F up and puts in the effort or Jerry Jones makes another ridiculous Roy Williams type deal and puts him back in Dallas where he wants to be.

Players that want to be great refuse to settle when they've made a mistake... remember the first nutcracker drill when a player got the better of VD and he refused to go to the back of the line till he got another shot at that player to redeem himself. Crabtree has the talent, but he doesn't display that type of intensity or passion. IMO he is Fitzgerald if Fitz was just complacent and never strived to get better after college.

How can he progress when he missed time his rookie season due to holding out. He had the following QB's throwing him balls... Alex Smith, Troy Smith and Shaun Hill. He played in a run first offense.

Say what you want, given the circumstances he's played pretty well...look at his stats.

Also, I'd like to see what he can do in a good system and a competent receiver throwing him balls. Not every elite receiver in the league is a "yes" man "work hard" "leader" type guy. I mean, he's a receiver...he's a diva....don't try to apply FB traits to a receiver.

As far as him not being top 5. I don't think he will be with Alex as his QB.

if you go through every team in the NFL jus about everyone has a better number one. i dont think it will matter who the QB is he is not that good. TJ husmanzada 2.0

And the 9ers have arguably the worst starting QB in the league, WTF is your point? Fitzgerald's stats dropped quite a bit last year. Megatron's stats dropped quite a bit in his 2nd year as well. Did they just suck those years or were their QB's inept? You can be a great receiver, but if your QB doesn't get you the ball you will be ineffective.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that a receiver requires solid QB play to be effective?

Andre Johnson was puting up numbers with David Carr and then Sage Rosenfels as his QB. Jerry had good games with back ups like Bono and Grbac filling in when Young and Montana got injured. Sometimes great recievers just get open and get the ball no matter who is covering them. Crabtree doesnt seem like that.

One thing you failed to mention is that Houston and the 49ers had systems in place that were offensive minded. Crabtree has had neanderthal coaching by Sullivan and Singletary since he has been here. Lets not forget Sully had failed to produce a number one receiver for this team in his whole tenure here and Nolan and Singletary knew nothing about offense. Crabtree has to take some of the blame because of his lack of work ethic but he is full of talent. I can only imagine what he could accomplish if Rice could mentor Crabtree and show him how to work hard in this league much like Roger Craig help Jerry learn. He has to want to be great and Im not sure if that passion for the game is there.

That's my problem with him. I know he has talent, I really wanted us to pick him in 2009. But he hasnt shown the work to go with it and let that talent shine. He still has good size, shiftiness, and really long arms. If he worked like Rice did he could be a number one option for sure. But IIRC he even shied away from Jerry because Jerry was a little bit critical of him.

The way I see it and you might agree is Crabtree's downfall has been: 1) Bad work ethic/no passion 2) bad offensive system/coaching 3) Lack of talent at QB 4) Crabtree's lack of talent. In that order. A competitor would have taken Jerry's comments and used that as fuel to prove him wrong not shy away from the guy.

Please explain to me how he has bad work ethic? Please provide proof...not stupid speculation.

Being injured during a preseason all of a sudden means you have no work ethic. Hillarious.

Lets be real, people are angry cuz of the hold out and for whatever reason can't let it go.

so are you happy with his play up to this point?

Dude, I asked you to provide proof on his lack of work ethic. He played very well in his rookie season. This year he regressed a bit, but so did every player on this team including Willis and Vernon so I don't get what all the hoopla is about.

There's no doubt in my mind in a competent offensive system and a competent QB he'd be a 10TD 1000 yard receiver. No doubt in my mind.

But for whatever reason 9er fans have such ridiculously high expectations for a 2nd year receiver and considerably low expectations for a 6 year QB.

It annoys me how excuses are made for the QB but those excuses aren't extended to the players around him. Why is that?

Shouldn't you ask why you are doing the reverse? Smith actually had a better year last year than the one before and yet you state that even Willis regressed. Isn't that a sign of bad coaching? But not at the QB postition evidently?

I believe in Crabtree and don't have a double standard--in either direction.

Quote:
so are you happy with his play up to this point?

Dude, I asked you to provide proof on his lack of work ethic. He played very well in his rookie season. This year he regressed a bit, but so did every player on this team including Willis and Vernon so I don't get what all the hoopla is about.

There's no doubt in my mind in a competent offensive system and a competent QB he'd be a 10TD 1000 yard receiver. No doubt in my mind.

But for whatever reason 9er fans have such ridiculously high expectations for a 2nd year receiver and considerably low expectations for a 6 year QB.

It annoys me how excuses are made for the QB but those excuses aren't extended to the players around him. Why is that?
provide proof he can be 1000yd 10td guy..oh wait you cant. and dont bring up alex im not a fan of his either

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Quote:
so are you happy with his play up to this point?

Quote:
Dude, I asked you to provide proof on his lack of work ethic. He played very well in his rookie season. This year he regressed a bit, but so did every player on this team including Willis and Vernon so I don't get what all the hoopla is about.

There's no doubt in my mind in a competent offensive system and a competent QB he'd be a 10TD 1000 yard receiver. No doubt in my mind.

But for whatever reason 9er fans have such ridiculously high expectations for a 2nd year receiver and considerably low expectations for a 6 year QB.

It annoys me how excuses are made for the QB but those excuses aren't extended to the players around him. Why is that?

provide proof he can be 1000yd 10td guy..oh wait you cant. and dont bring up alex im not a fan of his either

Originally posted by JayBee:
Please explain to me how he has bad work ethic? Please provide proof...not stupid speculation.

Being injured during a preseason all of a sudden means you have no work ethic. Hillarious.

Lets be real, people are angry cuz of the hold out and for whatever reason can't let it go.

Davis got in Crabtree's face during practice because he didn't feel Crabtree was putting forth enough effort. Vernon felt something was wrong with the way MC was going about his business. But maybe you know better than he does.

Also Crabtree was among league leaders in dropped passes. To me thats a sign of lack of concentration. Before last season, and in the offseason, did he workout a lot with Alex Smith? Did he go the extra mile to make sure they were on the same page during the season.

This crabtree nonsense has nothing to do with his stats or work ethic. He plays on a team, and if the team plays like crap then his stats will reflect that. His work ethic, I'm sure he's staying in shape. My problem is he needs to be working out with his teammates plain and simple. There's no way it can hurt him so
why not.

Originally posted by Druckenmiller14:

Originally posted by JayBee:
Please explain to me how he has bad work ethic? Please provide proof...not stupid speculation.

Being injured during a preseason all of a sudden means you have no work ethic. Hillarious.

Lets be real, people are angry cuz of the hold out and for whatever reason can't let it go.

Davis got in Crabtree's face during practice because he didn't feel Crabtree was putting forth enough effort. Vernon felt something was wrong with the way MC was going about his business. But maybe you know better than he does.

Also Crabtree was among league leaders in dropped passes. To me thats a sign of lack of concentration. Before last season, and in the offseason, did he workout a lot with Alex Smith? Did he go the extra mile to make sure they were on the same page during the season.

Please provide proof. I can provide proof that he's a hard worker from the mouths of his coaches. So like I said, provide proof instead of speculation.

All you know about Crabtree is the limited information you get from reporters. You are not in the locker room, you're not in on his discussions with Alex. If his coaches tell me he's a hard worker, then that's who I'm going with.

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Quote:
so are you happy with his play up to this point?

Quote:
Dude, I asked you to provide proof on his lack of work ethic. He played very well in his rookie season. This year he regressed a bit, but so did every player on this team including Willis and Vernon so I don't get what all the hoopla is about.

There's no doubt in my mind in a competent offensive system and a competent QB he'd be a 10TD 1000 yard receiver. No doubt in my mind.

But for whatever reason 9er fans have such ridiculously high expectations for a 2nd year receiver and considerably low expectations for a 6 year QB.

It annoys me how excuses are made for the QB but those excuses aren't extended to the players around him. Why is that?

provide proof he can be 1000yd 10td guy..oh wait you cant. and dont bring up alex im not a fan of his either

How can I prove what hasn't happened yet? LOL

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by E-49er:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by E-49er:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by ads_2006:
crabtree is going to be our best wr

regardless if he works out with the team or not

dude held out till November and was still the leading WR. 2nd only to vernon overall on the team

last year he had career lows of receptions in games and had to deal with a changing cast of qbs, offensive coordinators and still was the leading WR and 2nd only to vernon overall on the team.

Wouldnt be surprised if crabtree shows up when Kapernick is the one throwing the ball.

He was the most targeted receiver by a large margin and yet came in at #2, and barely beat out Morgan for that spot.

I was talking yards not catches btw.

VD - Targetted 93 times, made 56 catches for 914 yards
Crabs - Targetted 101 times, made 55 catches for 741 yards
Morgan - Targetted 80 times, made 44 catches for 698 yards.

But yeah, when your 1st rounder can barely contribute more than your 6th rounder... he just flat out needs to get better.

We just flat out need to bring in some FA competition. Crabtree and Morgan are not keeping DCs up at night.

Exactly. They have 2 slow wr's with 0 athleticism. Not to mention Ginn who is fast but can't catch and scared to run routes. Long term effects of run 1st/play good defense built team. Having no speed at WR and CB are major problems.

To make matters worse at least 5/6 wr's were drafted later than Crabtree are simply outplaying him. He needs to step it up.

Nicks and Maclin are the only ones that are realy playin better and most of what Maclin has done was due to a great offense. Crabtree doesnt have the heart to become a great WR or the skill set.

What does a wide receiver need to become effective? And by the way I dont agree that Crabtree lacks either heart or the skill set. And other than 49er fans who havent got over their pique at his holdout there is little evidence, in view of the state of the team last year, to support this. With a line playing well together, which I am hoping for, and a qb handling the game rather better, which I am praying for, and a coaching staff coaching and playcalling significantly better, which I confidently expect, it will be interesting to see what he can do. Players rarely put it together at college and achieve the reputation he did, if they have no heart. I think he lacked coaching, support and the development every young player needs. Lets see how this year goes before we write him off.

I stand by what I said. He will NEVER be great. That doesnt mean he cant be good. Do you think he could ever be a top-5 WR?(not of all time jus right now)

How the hell do you know?

Never is a bit of a strong statement... but I don't think he will ever be a top 5 wr while on the Niners. He is the exact same caliber of WR he was as a rookie, he hasn't progressed at all. We had a great rookie... now we have an average #1 WR at best.

He seems like the type of player that hears all the criticism and takes it personally... rather than trying to prove his doubters wrong. The only way he becomes great is when he either mans the F up and puts in the effort or Jerry Jones makes another ridiculous Roy Williams type deal and puts him back in Dallas where he wants to be.

Players that want to be great refuse to settle when they've made a mistake... remember the first nutcracker drill when a player got the better of VD and he refused to go to the back of the line till he got another shot at that player to redeem himself. Crabtree has the talent, but he doesn't display that type of intensity or passion. IMO he is Fitzgerald if Fitz was just complacent and never strived to get better after college.

How can he progress when he missed time his rookie season due to holding out. He had the following QB's throwing him balls... Alex Smith, Troy Smith and Shaun Hill. He played in a run first offense.

Say what you want, given the circumstances he's played pretty well...look at his stats.

Also, I'd like to see what he can do in a good system and a competent receiver throwing him balls. Not every elite receiver in the league is a "yes" man "work hard" "leader" type guy. I mean, he's a receiver...he's a diva....don't try to apply FB traits to a receiver.

As far as him not being top 5. I don't think he will be with Alex as his QB.

if you go through every team in the NFL jus about everyone has a better number one. i dont think it will matter who the QB is he is not that good. TJ husmanzada 2.0

And the 9ers have arguably the worst starting QB in the league, WTF is your point? Fitzgerald's stats dropped quite a bit last year. Megatron's stats dropped quite a bit in his 2nd year as well. Did they just suck those years or were their QB's inept? You can be a great receiver, but if your QB doesn't get you the ball you will be ineffective.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that a receiver requires solid QB play to be effective?

Andre Johnson was puting up numbers with David Carr and then Sage Rosenfels as his QB. Jerry had good games with back ups like Bono and Grbac filling in when Young and Montana got injured. Sometimes great recievers just get open and get the ball no matter who is covering them. Crabtree doesnt seem like that.

One thing you failed to mention is that Houston and the 49ers had systems in place that were offensive minded. Crabtree has had neanderthal coaching by Sullivan and Singletary since he has been here. Lets not forget Sully had failed to produce a number one receiver for this team in his whole tenure here and Nolan and Singletary knew nothing about offense. Crabtree has to take some of the blame because of his lack of work ethic but he is full of talent. I can only imagine what he could accomplish if Rice could mentor Crabtree and show him how to work hard in this league much like Roger Craig help Jerry learn. He has to want to be great and Im not sure if that passion for the game is there.

That's my problem with him. I know he has talent, I really wanted us to pick him in 2009. But he hasnt shown the work to go with it and let that talent shine. He still has good size, shiftiness, and really long arms. If he worked like Rice did he could be a number one option for sure. But IIRC he even shied away from Jerry because Jerry was a little bit critical of him.

The way I see it and you might agree is Crabtree's downfall has been: 1) Bad work ethic/no passion 2) bad offensive system/coaching 3) Lack of talent at QB 4) Crabtree's lack of talent. In that order. A competitor would have taken Jerry's comments and used that as fuel to prove him wrong not shy away from the guy.

Please explain to me how he has bad work ethic? Please provide proof...not stupid speculation.

Being injured during a preseason all of a sudden means you have no work ethic. Hillarious.

Lets be real, people are angry cuz of the hold out and for whatever reason can't let it go.

so are you happy with his play up to this point?

Dude, I asked you to provide proof on his lack of work ethic. He played very well in his rookie season. This year he regressed a bit, but so did every player on this team including Willis and Vernon so I don't get what all the hoopla is about.

There's no doubt in my mind in a competent offensive system and a competent QB he'd be a 10TD 1000 yard receiver. No doubt in my mind.

But for whatever reason 9er fans have such ridiculously high expectations for a 2nd year receiver and considerably low expectations for a 6 year QB.

It annoys me how excuses are made for the QB but those excuses aren't extended to the players around him. Why is that?

How about this. He is in SF but hasn't even come by, really?? its not like they are doing anything crazy.A player with work ethic would be there. Esp if you just came off a season full of mental errors. He is supposed o be our #1. He needs to act like it. He has pouted his way through this contract and will be the 1st out the door when its up. Him and Jerry's name should never be spoken together. Jerry woul have been out there organizing the workouts himself. and a fake ass neck injury that was miraculously healed week 1.
Also Vern has proven that he will come into camp in shape, so yes he gets the vet pass. Perfect time for the the expected #1's to be hanging out playing a lil game of catch.

Originally posted by SF4EVA:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by E-49er:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by E-49er:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by ads_2006:
crabtree is going to be our best wr

regardless if he works out with the team or not

dude held out till November and was still the leading WR. 2nd only to vernon overall on the team

last year he had career lows of receptions in games and had to deal with a changing cast of qbs, offensive coordinators and still was the leading WR and 2nd only to vernon overall on the team.

Wouldnt be surprised if crabtree shows up when Kapernick is the one throwing the ball.

He was the most targeted receiver by a large margin and yet came in at #2, and barely beat out Morgan for that spot.

I was talking yards not catches btw.

VD - Targetted 93 times, made 56 catches for 914 yards
Crabs - Targetted 101 times, made 55 catches for 741 yards
Morgan - Targetted 80 times, made 44 catches for 698 yards.

But yeah, when your 1st rounder can barely contribute more than your 6th rounder... he just flat out needs to get better.

We just flat out need to bring in some FA competition. Crabtree and Morgan are not keeping DCs up at night.

Exactly. They have 2 slow wr's with 0 athleticism. Not to mention Ginn who is fast but can't catch and scared to run routes. Long term effects of run 1st/play good defense built team. Having no speed at WR and CB are major problems.

To make matters worse at least 5/6 wr's were drafted later than Crabtree are simply outplaying him. He needs to step it up.

Nicks and Maclin are the only ones that are realy playin better and most of what Maclin has done was due to a great offense. Crabtree doesnt have the heart to become a great WR or the skill set.

What does a wide receiver need to become effective? And by the way I dont agree that Crabtree lacks either heart or the skill set. And other than 49er fans who havent got over their pique at his holdout there is little evidence, in view of the state of the team last year, to support this. With a line playing well together, which I am hoping for, and a qb handling the game rather better, which I am praying for, and a coaching staff coaching and playcalling significantly better, which I confidently expect, it will be interesting to see what he can do. Players rarely put it together at college and achieve the reputation he did, if they have no heart. I think he lacked coaching, support and the development every young player needs. Lets see how this year goes before we write him off.

I stand by what I said. He will NEVER be great. That doesnt mean he cant be good. Do you think he could ever be a top-5 WR?(not of all time jus right now)

How the hell do you know?

Never is a bit of a strong statement... but I don't think he will ever be a top 5 wr while on the Niners. He is the exact same caliber of WR he was as a rookie, he hasn't progressed at all. We had a great rookie... now we have an average #1 WR at best.

He seems like the type of player that hears all the criticism and takes it personally... rather than trying to prove his doubters wrong. The only way he becomes great is when he either mans the F up and puts in the effort or Jerry Jones makes another ridiculous Roy Williams type deal and puts him back in Dallas where he wants to be.

Players that want to be great refuse to settle when they've made a mistake... remember the first nutcracker drill when a player got the better of VD and he refused to go to the back of the line till he got another shot at that player to redeem himself. Crabtree has the talent, but he doesn't display that type of intensity or passion. IMO he is Fitzgerald if Fitz was just complacent and never strived to get better after college.

How can he progress when he missed time his rookie season due to holding out. He had the following QB's throwing him balls... Alex Smith, Troy Smith and Shaun Hill. He played in a run first offense.

Say what you want, given the circumstances he's played pretty well...look at his stats.

Also, I'd like to see what he can do in a good system and a competent receiver throwing him balls. Not every elite receiver in the league is a "yes" man "work hard" "leader" type guy. I mean, he's a receiver...he's a diva....don't try to apply FB traits to a receiver.

As far as him not being top 5. I don't think he will be with Alex as his QB.

if you go through every team in the NFL jus about everyone has a better number one. i dont think it will matter who the QB is he is not that good. TJ husmanzada 2.0

And the 9ers have arguably the worst starting QB in the league, WTF is your point? Fitzgerald's stats dropped quite a bit last year. Megatron's stats dropped quite a bit in his 2nd year as well. Did they just suck those years or were their QB's inept? You can be a great receiver, but if your QB doesn't get you the ball you will be ineffective.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that a receiver requires solid QB play to be effective?

Andre Johnson was puting up numbers with David Carr and then Sage Rosenfels as his QB. Jerry had good games with back ups like Bono and Grbac filling in when Young and Montana got injured. Sometimes great recievers just get open and get the ball no matter who is covering them. Crabtree doesnt seem like that.

One thing you failed to mention is that Houston and the 49ers had systems in place that were offensive minded. Crabtree has had neanderthal coaching by Sullivan and Singletary since he has been here. Lets not forget Sully had failed to produce a number one receiver for this team in his whole tenure here and Nolan and Singletary knew nothing about offense. Crabtree has to take some of the blame because of his lack of work ethic but he is full of talent. I can only imagine what he could accomplish if Rice could mentor Crabtree and show him how to work hard in this league much like Roger Craig help Jerry learn. He has to want to be great and Im not sure if that passion for the game is there.

That's my problem with him. I know he has talent, I really wanted us to pick him in 2009. But he hasnt shown the work to go with it and let that talent shine. He still has good size, shiftiness, and really long arms. If he worked like Rice did he could be a number one option for sure. But IIRC he even shied away from Jerry because Jerry was a little bit critical of him.

The way I see it and you might agree is Crabtree's downfall has been: 1) Bad work ethic/no passion 2) bad offensive system/coaching 3) Lack of talent at QB 4) Crabtree's lack of talent. In that order. A competitor would have taken Jerry's comments and used that as fuel to prove him wrong not shy away from the guy.

Please explain to me how he has bad work ethic? Please provide proof...not stupid speculation.

Being injured during a preseason all of a sudden means you have no work ethic. Hillarious.

Lets be real, people are angry cuz of the hold out and for whatever reason can't let it go.

so are you happy with his play up to this point?

Dude, I asked you to provide proof on his lack of work ethic. He played very well in his rookie season. This year he regressed a bit, but so did every player on this team including Willis and Vernon so I don't get what all the hoopla is about.

There's no doubt in my mind in a competent offensive system and a competent QB he'd be a 10TD 1000 yard receiver. No doubt in my mind.

But for whatever reason 9er fans have such ridiculously high expectations for a 2nd year receiver and considerably low expectations for a 6 year QB.

It annoys me how excuses are made for the QB but those excuses aren't extended to the players around him. Why is that?

How about this. He is in SF but hasn't even come by, really?? its not like they are doing anything crazy.A player with work ethic would be there. Esp if you just came off a season full of mental errors. He is supposed o be our #1. He needs to act like it. He has pouted his way through this contract and will be the 1st out the door when its up. Him and Jerry's name should never be spoken together. Jerry woul have been out there organizing the workouts himself. and a fake ass neck injury that was miraculously healed week 1.
Also Vern has proven that he will come into camp in shape, so yes he gets the vet pass. Perfect time for the the expected #1's to be hanging out playing a lil game of catch.

So basically what you're saying is Vernon Davis doesn't have a good work ethic as well then.

read my last sentance

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by Druckenmiller14:

Originally posted by JayBee:
Please explain to me how he has bad work ethic? Please provide proof...not stupid speculation.

Being injured during a preseason all of a sudden means you have no work ethic. Hillarious.

Lets be real, people are angry cuz of the hold out and for whatever reason can't let it go.

Davis got in Crabtree's face during practice because he didn't feel Crabtree was putting forth enough effort. Vernon felt something was wrong with the way MC was going about his business. But maybe you know better than he does.

Also Crabtree was among league leaders in dropped passes. To me thats a sign of lack of concentration. Before last season, and in the offseason, did he workout a lot with Alex Smith? Did he go the extra mile to make sure they were on the same page during the season.

Please provide proof. I can provide proof that he's a hard worker from the mouths of his coaches. So like I said, provide proof instead of speculation.

All you know about Crabtree is the limited information you get from reporters. You are not in the locker room, you're not in on his discussions with Alex. If his coaches tell me he's a hard worker, then that's who I'm going with.

So coaches quotes are infallible?

"Coach Mike Singletary, who on Sunday said Raye would remain coordinator for the rest of the season, said he made the decision to fire Raye after spending the night looking at game film."

Here's another coaches quote:

"We didn't get better on the field in practice, but we got better as a team," Singletary said. "This was a good thing that happened, it really was, for a number of reasons that I won't even go into. I appreciate Vernon speaking from his heart. ... (This) indeed is every bit the reason why I made him captain.

So I guess VD was in a heated altercation speaking from his heart because Crabtree said "yo mamma?" Doubt it.

Oh an please show me where a coach says Crabtree is a very hard worker? I know Roger Craig said he "thought" Crabtree was a hard worker but outside of his rookie season to get on the field, where has a coach said Crabtree works hard?

Speculation, speculation.

How about this...

Singletary also said he almost made first-round draft pick Michael Crabtree cry. Singletary found him running routes during the first minicamp and admonished him for running before he was cleared by the medical staff. Crabtree is recovering from off-season foot surgery.

Singletary recounted the conversation he had with his prized rookie.

"'I've got nothing against you. I'm not angry or anything. I just want you to know, you have to do everything the doctors want you to do so that you can get better.' I said, 'I'm not worried about what you can do.' I said, 'I know. We drafted you at No. 10. We know what you can do. We just want to make sure that when you come out here, you're ready to go.' So, he's done the things that he needs to do, spending a lot of time with (receivers coach Jerry] Sullivan. I know Jerry is excited about what he's seeing as well."

Funny how a guy with poor work ethic was out running routes before he was medically cleared to.

And how about this other article...

49ers coach Mike Singletary said he's been impressed with second-year WR Michael Crabtree during the offseason workouts. This is Crabtree's first full offseason after dealing with a foot injury and a holdout last year. "I think Crabtree continues to really carry himself well," Singletary said. "He works his tail off and is getting the work done that he needs to get done. So, I think Michael Crabtree has had a good OTA, a good minicamp." The offseason work should help his production, and he should develop chemistry with QB Alex Smith in training camp, which Crabtree didn't have last season.

Clearly Crabs is not a hard worker.