our offensive line scouting

Originally posted by elguapo:
As i have to laugh baas davis iupati rachal were together the whole year.......i repeat the whole year and staley was there more than half the year.

By the way its excuses like that that people still make for alex smith....guess what?????

The steelers bears gb and a few other o lines were not together for as long as ours and they performed much better. Even the bears ol improved dramatically. So thats why i am laughing.

I used to think barlow was good and got no blocking until gore came in and tore it up. Well sometimes you have to say its not coaching the system cohesion as much as they are just not good. Denial is not just a river in egypt.

Check your stats:

Baas-1st year start at center
Lupati-Rookie
Rachal-3rd year starter
Staley-4th year starter
Davis-Rookie

Edit: Compared to GB
Wells-6
Sitton-3
Bulaga-Rookie
Colledge-5
Clifton-11

This is a very young line. I'm not making excuses, just pointing out the obvious. Could they have been better if coaching had been better? Of course! Taking a young line and then putting the entire weight of the offense on it--smash mouth--was rediculous, and many of us said so at the time. Heitmann going down was another reason to rely less on the line and more on movement, deception and quick hitting plays. But our coach was not into "out thinking" the opponent.

I'm not sure how good this line will be under Harbaugh as he did not select them for his system. Are they quick enough? Maybe. Are they smart enough to learn all the shifting? Hope so. But Baas has a lot to prove if Heitmann can't come back as the center usually makes line calls. Is he up to it? Don't know.

My problem with your post is to assume that you can judge a line that is 3/5 new to a position, 2/5 rookie, 1/5 injured, 1/5 coming back from injury, 1/5 possible bust (RG) and 5/5 poorly coached--talking about offensive scheme, don't know about position coaches.


Flozell Adams has more experience than the 9ers entire line! Interesting.

[ Edited by dtg_9er on Feb 7, 2011 at 10:09:38 ]

There was an interview and Roger Craig stated that the niners OL is fine, the problem is the qb is not getting the ball out fast enough. If our past qb's could scramble, aka jeff garcia, they make the OL look better.

Our past qb's take most the blame for the poor offensive line play. Defensive coordinators would not respect the passing game, so they would line up 8 in the box and bring 5 with ears pinned back.

I cringe when folks say draft OL. The niners need QB, OLB and CB. without those skilled positions they will fail. New Orleans used to have top drafted OL, now with Brees they are starting low level picks at OL and they look like studs because he is a quick decision maker.

Our O-line is young I would say if they stay together for a couple more years then I think they will be one of the top O-lines in the league.

Our line has sucked because of coaching and player bias...

Last year, look at the time our line seemed to play the best against the competition... Snyder was in for Rachal. Yet the coaching staff constantly kept putting in Rachal and our line looked shaky again.

Offensive creativity also helps out the O-line... last year we had none until Singletary was gone. If your line has a weak link it's the coaches responsibility to mask it. Superbowl is a great example, Steelers had multiple free rushers on allot of plays but RB's, TE's, and FB's stepped up to protect Rodgers, who then made a play.

The only player on our line that is a back up at best is Rachal, Davis gets a pass as a rookie (anyone that has watched Baluga play knows he has whiffed pretty badly too a few times). The rest could play for most teams and contribute as a starter.

The defense constantly catching our offense in a bad position has more to do with coaching and scheme than players.

Let me answer your question.

99% of the coaches in the league could take the personnel Singletary had and beat him 100% of the time and would produce 10 wins.

at this point our Oline is solid, Rachal is obviously a weak point.

Our problem is at QB, CB, WR, and OLB --- hopefully the WR problem will be solved when we get a decent QB

Originally posted by 9erred:
There was an interview and Roger Craig stated that the niners OL is fine, the problem is the qb is not getting the ball out fast enough. If our past qb's could scramble, aka jeff garcia, they make the OL look better.

Our past qb's take most the blame for the poor offensive line play. Defensive coordinators would not respect the passing game, so they would line up 8 in the box and bring 5 with ears pinned back.

I cringe when folks say draft OL. The niners need QB, OLB and CB. without those skilled positions they will fail. New Orleans used to have top drafted OL, now with Brees they are starting low level picks at OL and they look like studs because he is a quick decision maker.

We're like a Nascar team that keeps buying new tires, gaskets, engines, pistons, using a different oil, new aerodynamics etc...

Perhaps its the driver (quarterback)?

You could have an Indy car racing a kid on a tricycle, but if your car is driven by "Toonces the driving cat", you'll crash and lose the race. The question is, "Why do they let Toonces drive?"...

Originally posted by Joecool:
Let me answer your question.

99% of the coaches in the league could take the personnel Singletary had and beat him 100% of the time and would produce 10 wins.

No argument from me on this point!

Originally posted by elguapo:
Have any of you noticed that some teams just simply cannot draft certain positions? Our case is the ol and also mostly cbs. How can a team like pitt have two to three backups and perform better than our starters that are all first and second rounders.....its amazing that we really cant draft ol. Iupati will be good but ue was a sure fire.

Dont you hate that. We have all first and second rounders on our ol and its avg to below avg. Ot will improve but probably to only good not great its sad really

The Steelers line isn't that good. My step-dad is a Steeler fan so I've heard their fans complaining about there line for years. One of the reasons it doesn't look as bad is because they have a 260lb QB who gets rid of the ball and is strong enough to shake off most DE's when they come in for a sack. The coaching point being made is a valid point. Our OL coching has been sub-par since Pat Morris left with Mooch. Hopefully Solari can do more with another year with this group and Drevno can make a difference as well. I think they will improve too. How much I don't know yet. You point out that you think they will go from "average to good but not great", in my mind that is enough improvement to be a winning team again, but like with the Steelers and Roethlisberger, if we can find a QB who can help our line out it will make a big difference as well.

The problem if you all have been watching has a lot to do with the players losing matchups to the defense. Staley gets beat often as does rachal and davis. Iupati doesnt as much and hopefully davis gets better bc he was aweful.

As far as the argument about baas plauing a new position......really. Are you aware that he played center in college? It is NOT i repeat not a new position for him. Between baas staley davis and rachal we have an avg ol at the very best. At least our left side will be good. However we must get a veteran rg through fa or else our right side will be aweful again....no not bc of coaching or scheme but because the PLAYERS are bad and losing their matchups.

And by the way a lot of other qbs hold the ball longer than alex smith so the whole excuse about its the qbs fault is just that an excuse. It would help to have a brady or manning or brees or wrs that get open but consider this...

A LOT OF OTHER qbs have more time to throw that dont extend plays. They just have a better ol. Simple as that. Look at the time it takes for the dl to get in the qbs face. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Let me answer your question.

99% of the coaches in the league could take the personnel Singletary had and beat him 100% of the time and would produce 10 wins.

THis!!

I for one am not the least bit worried about our Oline. Some of you guys make it sound as if they where dominated all year. The truth is they did great considering all the things stacked against them. I think this line will be dominating in two years, and that includes Rachal if he decides to commit himself to the game.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Feb 7, 2011 at 20:19:54 ]

Originally posted by elguapo:
The problem if you all have been watching has a lot to do with the players losing matchups to the defense. Staley gets beat often as does rachal and davis. Iupati doesnt as much and hopefully davis gets better bc he was aweful.

As far as the argument about baas plauing a new position......really. Are you aware that he played center in college? It is NOT i repeat not a new position for him. Between baas staley davis and rachal we have an avg ol at the very best. At least our left side will be good. However we must get a veteran rg through fa or else our right side will be aweful again....no not bc of coaching or scheme but because the PLAYERS are bad and losing their matchups.

And by the way a lot of other qbs hold the ball longer than alex smith so the whole excuse about its the qbs fault is just that an excuse. It would help to have a brady or manning or brees or wrs that get open but consider this...

A LOT OF OTHER qbs have more time to throw that dont extend plays. They just have a better ol. Simple as that. Look at the time it takes for the dl to get in the qbs face. Plain and simple.

Not making excuses but Staley was injured (knee) from last season (Colts game). Rachal too was injured (knee) but has youth and potential, he's just not consistent. You combine with a rookie RT and LG with a injured center and you're talking about 80% of our line finishing with different starters in 2010 compared to last year. Last time I checked most OLs need 3-5 years of playing time together to establish continuity and success. Just give it time with some real coaching staff and we'll see what kind of line we put forth in 2011 and beyond.

Originally posted by elguapo:
The problem if you all have been watching has a lot to do with the players losing matchups to the defense. Staley gets beat often as does rachal and davis. Iupati doesnt as much and hopefully davis gets better bc he was aweful.

As far as the argument about baas plauing a new position......really. Are you aware that he played center in college? It is NOT i repeat not a new position for him. Between baas staley davis and rachal we have an avg ol at the very best. At least our left side will be good. However we must get a veteran rg through fa or else our right side will be aweful again....no not bc of coaching or scheme but because the PLAYERS are bad and losing their matchups.

And by the way a lot of other qbs hold the ball longer than alex smith so the whole excuse about its the qbs fault is just that an excuse. It would help to have a brady or manning or brees or wrs that get open but consider this...

A LOT OF OTHER qbs have more time to throw that dont extend plays. They just have a better ol. Simple as that. Look at the time it takes for the dl to get in the qbs face. Plain and simple.

OLines need to work together. This group of men did not work together until this year. No two linemen were lined up next to someone they had ever played with before. This is a problem until they get to know each other. Sometimes takes years, but seldom takes less than a year.

Staley has been highly regarded until injuries the last two years. The Rookies were rookies. Baas had never played center at this level, with these OGs. He had not been the brain of the line until this year. We can't know how he did in this job unless we have inside info, which I don't.

It is not my intention to argue with you about your contention that the line played poorly at times last year, but to point out that it is a young line that may become more solid this coming year and for years to come. It is not time to invest another high draft choice in this line, making it younger. It may be time to pick up a FA OG.

Originally posted by toppdogg32:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by toppdogg32:
You do have to ask the question- Did we do good getting Davis(penalty's, sacks, bad play) instead of Bulaga(Super Bowl starter) ?? Also guys like Tom Ashworth, Harvey Dahl, et al. were dropped by us, only to go to other teams that played in playoffs and Super bowls.. We havent done really good scouting of OL since Bobb Mc. Kittrick left us,(and even in those last few years he drafted the likes of Chris Ruhman and Phil Ostroski- terrible, terrible, terrible).. We have done GOOD-GREAT in FA's though (Fiore, Stone, Willig, West, Gragg, etc.) which is why if feel the OL "fix" should come through FA (we need a mauling RG) and not the draft.

People just have to realize that coaching qnd scheme can mask bad players and make them better than they really are. However gb pitt dal chi did all have decent to good coaching however when shuffling all the time and still outperforming our first and second rounders.....
..You sometimes just have to admit that the reality is players like rachal even staley and baas arent that good. Sorry its the nfl and when a player is bad SOMETIMES ITS NOT THE COACHING OR SCHEME its the player....hello....mcfly. I get your car towed all the way here and all you have for me is light beer.

Blameshifting and excuses are really pathetic...i made them for players lile kwami harris kevan barlow alex smith until players like any veteran rt gore and shaun hill outperformed them. I learned my lesson and am no longer in loser denial. Please people wake up. We definitely need a fa right guard minimum and better scouting when ot comes to the ol.

Lutui, Spencer, Incognito, Nicks, Boothe, Yanda- Guys that wont break the bank and can start right away at RG...

yeah as much as people, including me, want a guy like Dahl back or local boy in Mankins, i wouldnt mind one of them.