Victor Contreras : Sac Bee

The answer to this chicken/egg question is "chicken." Only a chicken can create an egg. An egg cannot exist by itself.

The same exact things were being said about Steve Young in Tampa Bay. "he hadn't stepped up," "he was a 'system' product,'" ETC., ETC.

It is correctly stated that we are all a product of who gets ahold of us first. In the case of Alex Smith, it was Mike Nolan who got his hands on Smith and began taking away his natural playing style and re-molding him into something else.

Eddie DeBartolo said in his interview last week that when the 49ers traded for Young they knew exactly what they were getting. They also knew it would take some time to re-mold him into the kind of player he became. IOW, it was ALL about coaching with Young.

Norv Turner's phone conference call this week was insightful. He knows and understands QBs better than anyone who has worked with Alex since he came out of college. He believes Alex DOES have leadership qualities and can be a standout QB in this league. Once again the message is about a coach who understands offense and how to work with a QB.

So I am voting with the experts who have "been there, done that." I am voting that Alex Smith is a product of poor coaching and personal mishandling while here in SF. Unfortunately, it looks like we will see the Steve Young cycle in reverse - another team with an insightful coach has recognized what Alex can be and will bring him in and turn him into the player the league thought he could be before the draft. This time the 49ers will be the loser.

How the worm has turned...

Originally posted by dj43:
The answer to this chicken/egg question is "chicken." Only a chicken can create an egg. An egg cannot exist by itself.

The same exact things were being said about Steve Young in Tampa Bay. "he hadn't stepped up," "he was a 'system' product,'" ETC., ETC.

It is correctly stated that we are all a product of who gets ahold of us first. In the case of Alex Smith, it was Mike Nolan who got his hands on Smith and began taking away his natural playing style and re-molding him into something else.

Eddie DeBartolo said in his interview last week that when the 49ers traded for Young they knew exactly what they were getting. They also knew it would take some time to re-mold him into the kind of player he became. IOW, it was ALL about coaching with Young.

Norv Turner's phone conference call this week was insightful. He knows and understands QBs better than anyone who has worked with Alex since he came out of college. He believes Alex DOES have leadership qualities and can be a standout QB in this league. Once again the message is about a coach who understands offense and how to work with a QB.

So I am voting with the experts who have "been there, done that." I am voting that Alex Smith is a product of poor coaching and personal mishandling while here in SF. Unfortunately, it looks like we will see the Steve Young cycle in reverse - another team with an insightful coach has recognized what Alex can be and will bring him in and turn him into the player the league thought he could be before the draft. This time the 49ers will be the loser.

How the worm has turned...

Brilliance. I still hope you are wrong about that part I bolded though.

This thread is a "waist"

Originally posted by Otter:
The answer is both. The 49ers failed to properly develop him and coach him. But the reality is he probably should not have been the #1 overall pick.

I was thinking both, too. Add that his best OC was Turner who left the following year (as many others) which really hindered his development the most (IMO) as well as A. Smith's nearly two year injury absence.

I see only a top-level NFL QB overcoming the crap this organization has dealt him, and us, over the last decade.

Maybe 6-7 QB's in this league could have helped this team emerge as a consistent playoff contender. The rest would flop around like Alex.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I see only a top-level NFL QB overcoming the crap this organization has dealt him, and us, over the last decade.

Maybe 6-7 QB's in this league could have helped this team emerge as a consistent playoff contender. The rest would flop around like Alex.

Completely agree. Its been an embarrassment really.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I see only a top-level NFL QB overcoming the crap this organization has dealt him, and us, over the last decade.

Maybe 6-7 QB's in this league could have helped this team emerge as a consistent playoff contender. The rest would flop around like Alex.

And the expectation coming from the top pick in a draft is that Alex should have been able to overcome or at least mitigate the crap he's been dealt with.

Not counting the last game, I ask myself " Do you think Alex Smith has produced at a consistent enough level, taking into account his uneven development and injury history?"

My answer is no. I think what surrounds him now (or at the beginning of the 2010 season) was good enough where his supposed talent as a #1 overall pick should have produced better results than he has shown.

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I see only a top-level NFL QB overcoming the crap this organization has dealt him, and us, over the last decade.

Maybe 6-7 QB's in this league could have helped this team emerge as a consistent playoff contender. The rest would flop around like Alex.

And the expectation coming from the top pick in a draft is that Alex should have been able to overcome or at least mitigate the crap he's been dealt with.

Not counting the last game, I ask myself " Do you think Alex Smith has produced at a consistent enough level, taking into account his uneven development and injury history?"

My answer is no. I think what surrounds him now (or at the beginning of the 2010 season) was good enough where his supposed talent as a #1 overall pick should have produced better results than he has shown.

We are together part of the way.

The most insightful thing about this coach/player relationship issue is to look at what Alex has accomplished WHEN he had decent coaching and compare it to what was going on when he didn't have good coaching.

We all know about the Turner time and that is encouraging. However, the greater insight is provided by comparing this season BEFORE AND AFTER JIMMY RAYE. To me, this time frame is the best measuring stick.

The question is about the influence of coaching and it is undeniable that the offense changed as soon as Raye was replaced by MJ. Though we didn't see everything Johnson had in his case when he first took over, we did see enough that Alex' numbers jumped immediately. Now he follows that up with a terrific game - the best of his career. Over that 5 game time frame Smith's rating of 92 would put him in the top 10 QBs in the league. The only difference is an OC who has put players in position to succeed rather than forcing them into a system that doesn't fit.

We should all be looking at two time frames in assessing the future: One, when Norv Turner was here and, two, the recent games with Mike Johnson. In each of those time frames we have seen a very acceptable starting quarterback. The rest of the time, Alex Smith, and the rest of the team and fans have been subjected to some of the worst coaching this franchise has had since the mid-'70s.

COACHING = 90%

ALEX SMITH = 10%

The numbers prove it.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I see only a top-level NFL QB overcoming the crap this organization has dealt him, and us, over the last decade.

Maybe 6-7 QB's in this league could have helped this team emerge as a consistent playoff contender. The rest would flop around like Alex.

I agree to everything you say except for this. Most of the rest would struggle less because they were more NFL ready coming out of college.

Alex Smith was a bad draft pick from a poorly ran organization.

Originally posted by dj43:
The answer to this chicken/egg question is "chicken." Only a chicken can create an egg. An egg cannot exist by itself.

The same exact things were being said about Steve Young in Tampa Bay. "he hadn't stepped up," "he was a 'system' product,'" ETC., ETC.

It is correctly stated that we are all a product of who gets ahold of us first. In the case of Alex Smith, it was Mike Nolan who got his hands on Smith and began taking away his natural playing style and re-molding him into something else.

Eddie DeBartolo said in his interview last week that when the 49ers traded for Young they knew exactly what they were getting. They also knew it would take some time to re-mold him into the kind of player he became. IOW, it was ALL about coaching with Young.

Norv Turner's phone conference call this week was insightful. He knows and understands QBs better than anyone who has worked with Alex since he came out of college. He believes Alex DOES have leadership qualities and can be a standout QB in this league. Once again the message is about a coach who understands offense and how to work with a QB.

So I am voting with the experts who have "been there, done that." I am voting that Alex Smith is a product of poor coaching and personal mishandling while here in SF. Unfortunately, it looks like we will see the Steve Young cycle in reverse - another team with an insightful coach has recognized what Alex can be and will bring him in and turn him into the player the league thought he could be before the draft. This time the 49ers will be the loser.

How the worm has turned...

We get what we gave in Alex Smith....

Should he go elsewhere for redemption...I will wish him the best of luck. He'll probably go to San Diego & Norv Turner will have him light s--t up.

Originally posted by pigskin:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I see only a top-level NFL QB overcoming the crap this organization has dealt him, and us, over the last decade.

Maybe 6-7 QB's in this league could have helped this team emerge as a consistent playoff contender. The rest would flop around like Alex.

I agree to everything you say except for this. Most of the rest would struggle less because they were more NFL ready coming out of college.

Alex Smith was a bad draft pick from a poorly ran organization.

It would have been much better for Smith to have gone to GB. Given the stability they have had there, the elite receivers and the opportunity to sit behind Farve for three years, I think he could have been a very good QB for that team. For the record, I think Rodgers is the better QB and obviously would have been the better choice. I can only say that in hindsight now. Whether he would have been able to survive the absolute fiasco of the Nolan-Singletary years is something we will never know. But I know that Rodgers should thank the Football Gods each night that he went to Green Bay and not to San Francisco.

Originally posted by pigskin:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I see only a top-level NFL QB overcoming the crap this organization has dealt him, and us, over the last decade.

Maybe 6-7 QB's in this league could have helped this team emerge as a consistent playoff contender. The rest would flop around like Alex.

I agree to everything you say except for this. Most of the rest would struggle less because they were more NFL ready coming out of college.

Alex Smith was a bad draft pick from a poorly ran organization.

Alex came from a system very much like the one Sam Bradford came from. The difference is that the Rams tailored the offense to fit Bradford as closely as possible. The 49ers did just the mirror opposite with Smith.

He wasn't a bad pick. Had the 49ers picked Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay would almost certainly have chosen Smith.

You are right about the poorly run organization - that described everything about the 49ers during the time leading that time and now.

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Dino:
i don't see anything wrong with what he said

If guys like Culpepper and Garcia play QB in the UFL, Smith needs to prove he belongs in the NFL.

Originally posted by dj43:
The answer to this chicken/egg question is "chicken." Only a chicken can create an egg. An egg cannot exist by itself.

The same exact things were being said about Steve Young in Tampa Bay. "he hadn't stepped up," "he was a 'system' product,'" ETC., ETC.

It is correctly stated that we are all a product of who gets ahold of us first. In the case of Alex Smith, it was Mike Nolan who got his hands on Smith and began taking away his natural playing style and re-molding him into something else.

Eddie DeBartolo said in his interview last week that when the 49ers traded for Young they knew exactly what they were getting. They also knew it would take some time to re-mold him into the kind of player he became. IOW, it was ALL about coaching with Young.

Norv Turner's phone conference call this week was insightful. He knows and understands QBs better than anyone who has worked with Alex since he came out of college. He believes Alex DOES have leadership qualities and can be a standout QB in this league. Once again the message is about a coach who understands offense and how to work with a QB.

So I am voting with the experts who have "been there, done that." I am voting that Alex Smith is a product of poor coaching and personal mishandling while here in SF. Unfortunately, it looks like we will see the Steve Young cycle in reverse - another team with an insightful coach has recognized what Alex can be and will bring him in and turn him into the player the league thought he could be before the draft. This time the 49ers will be the loser.

How the worm has turned...

the funny thing is Steve Young himself doesn't see 'IT' in Alex Smith...

Originally posted by DertyDonahue:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Dino:
i don't see anything wrong with what he said

If guys like Culpepper and Garcia play QB in the UFL, Smith needs to prove he belongs in the NFL.

I think both of those guys are a little past their prime.