Now that I have rewatched the game...

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by redmanc07:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
As someone pointed out in another thread, Alex does just enough to make us lose.

Although his game wasnt as bad as some of his other performances, he was the reason why the came transitioned from winnable (17-10) to impossible (24-10).

This has been one of Alex's setbacks ever since he arrived on the scene. He just isnt capable of getting this team over the hump. As long as the overall team is playing well, Alex seems to compete. But one penalty, one defensive mishap, one dropped pass is all it takes for him to self destruct. As Madden points out, it's a quarterback's league. At some point, your leader has to overcome team mistakes and make a bad situation into a good one.

Alex, unfortunately, rarely does this.

Just signs of a bad team. Think about it how often do you see Brady or Manning put in a bad position. Not sayin Alex is anywhere near the level of those 2 but the guy needs some help and I'm not talking about out the door

Manning was in a bad position throughout his first couple of years, BUT... you could tell he was gonna be good.

You cannot compare Manning to Smith. In Manning's case, he has had Tom Moore, the same OC throughout his career. (now has a Moore protege calling plays with Moore as "offensive consultant) Moore's offense was tailored to take advantage of Peyton's best talents. Moore and Indy brass tailored their drafts to bring in players like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark who were not only excellent athletes but could also read defenses and make quick, accurate sight adjustments to allow Manning to have an open receiver almost immediately. He also had Tony Dungy, a very bright guy who is also very quarterback friendly. Dungy understood the unique relationship that must exist between a HC and his quarterback.

So far, Alex Smith has had NONE of those things.

The two situations are both prototypes. Indy is about how to develop a quarterback. SF is about how to make sure a quarterback is going to have the maximum number of barriers to success.

My point was Manning managed to look good even while taking his lumps, Alex Smith still looks like s**t 6 years later, and there's no sign of that changing.

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by redmanc07:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
As someone pointed out in another thread, Alex does just enough to make us lose.

Although his game wasnt as bad as some of his other performances, he was the reason why the came transitioned from winnable (17-10) to impossible (24-10).

This has been one of Alex's setbacks ever since he arrived on the scene. He just isnt capable of getting this team over the hump. As long as the overall team is playing well, Alex seems to compete. But one penalty, one defensive mishap, one dropped pass is all it takes for him to self destruct. As Madden points out, it's a quarterback's league. At some point, your leader has to overcome team mistakes and make a bad situation into a good one.

Alex, unfortunately, rarely does this.

Just signs of a bad team. Think about it how often do you see Brady or Manning put in a bad position. Not sayin Alex is anywhere near the level of those 2 but the guy needs some help and I'm not talking about out the door

Manning was in a bad position throughout his first couple of years, BUT... you could tell he was gonna be good.

You cannot compare Manning to Smith. In Manning's case, he has had Tom Moore, the same OC throughout his career. (now has a Moore protege calling plays with Moore as "offensive consultant) Moore's offense was tailored to take advantage of Peyton's best talents. Moore and Indy brass tailored their drafts to bring in players like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark who were not only excellent athletes but could also read defenses and make quick, accurate sight adjustments to allow Manning to have an open receiver almost immediately. He also had Tony Dungy, a very bright guy who is also very quarterback friendly. Dungy understood the unique relationship that must exist between a HC and his quarterback.

So far, Alex Smith has had NONE of those things.

The two situations are both prototypes. Indy is about how to develop a quarterback. SF is about how to make sure a quarterback is going to have the maximum number of barriers to success.

My point was Manning managed to look good even while taking his lumps, Alex Smith still looks like s**t 6 years later, and there's no sign of that changing.

So did Kyle Orton. Check out is 1st and 3rd years starting in CHI.

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by redmanc07:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
As someone pointed out in another thread, Alex does just enough to make us lose.

Although his game wasnt as bad as some of his other performances, he was the reason why the came transitioned from winnable (17-10) to impossible (24-10).

This has been one of Alex's setbacks ever since he arrived on the scene. He just isnt capable of getting this team over the hump. As long as the overall team is playing well, Alex seems to compete. But one penalty, one defensive mishap, one dropped pass is all it takes for him to self destruct. As Madden points out, it's a quarterback's league. At some point, your leader has to overcome team mistakes and make a bad situation into a good one.

Alex, unfortunately, rarely does this.

Just signs of a bad team. Think about it how often do you see Brady or Manning put in a bad position. Not sayin Alex is anywhere near the level of those 2 but the guy needs some help and I'm not talking about out the door

Manning was in a bad position throughout his first couple of years, BUT... you could tell he was gonna be good.

You cannot compare Manning to Smith. In Manning's case, he has had Tom Moore, the same OC throughout his career. (now has a Moore protege calling plays with Moore as "offensive consultant) Moore's offense was tailored to take advantage of Peyton's best talents. Moore and Indy brass tailored their drafts to bring in players like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark who were not only excellent athletes but could also read defenses and make quick, accurate sight adjustments to allow Manning to have an open receiver almost immediately. He also had Tony Dungy, a very bright guy who is also very quarterback friendly. Dungy understood the unique relationship that must exist between a HC and his quarterback.

So far, Alex Smith has had NONE of those things.

The two situations are both prototypes. Indy is about how to develop a quarterback. SF is about how to make sure a quarterback is going to have the maximum number of barriers to success.

You dont think that Manning had anything to do with the development of these guys ? I didnt see any teams jump on Harrison when he was let go from Indy. And Dallas Clark is NOT a probowler without Manning as his QB. QBs make average players look great. They make great players look even better. This is exactly what Manning and Brady (see Deion Branch, see Troy Brown) did with their respective teams.

Sorry, dude. But Alex HAS the players around him to be great. Frank Gore, Brian Westbrook, and Dixon = a monster backfield. If anything, Smith should be lighting up defenders with his arm, forcing them to defend the pass..........THEN allowing Gore and Co. to tear it up with the running game.

Instead, Smith's failed attempt at QBing has allowed teams to pack the box and defend the run. Without a running game, our team is in shambles.

The one problem with your line of thought there is that both of those teams have solid offensive lines, we have some good talent, but they are not playing well as a unit. That is why the offense as a whole is struggling, it is not hard to see if you take a step back and look at it objectively. We have no running game because the line isn't opening holes, so the opposing defenses are run blitzing on the way to the QB.

Quote:
I didnt see any teams jump on Harrison when he was let go from Indy.

Dude was on his last legs, he had ceased to be a factor at all on his own team. Play in an offense with Payton Manning, and he finds you if you're open. He just wasn't getting open.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by redmanc07:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
As someone pointed out in another thread, Alex does just enough to make us lose.

Although his game wasnt as bad as some of his other performances, he was the reason why the came transitioned from winnable (17-10) to impossible (24-10).

This has been one of Alex's setbacks ever since he arrived on the scene. He just isnt capable of getting this team over the hump. As long as the overall team is playing well, Alex seems to compete. But one penalty, one defensive mishap, one dropped pass is all it takes for him to self destruct. As Madden points out, it's a quarterback's league. At some point, your leader has to overcome team mistakes and make a bad situation into a good one.

Alex, unfortunately, rarely does this.

Just signs of a bad team. Think about it how often do you see Brady or Manning put in a bad position. Not sayin Alex is anywhere near the level of those 2 but the guy needs some help and I'm not talking about out the door

Manning was in a bad position throughout his first couple of years, BUT... you could tell he was gonna be good.

You cannot compare Manning to Smith. In Manning's case, he has had Tom Moore, the same OC throughout his career. (now has a Moore protege calling plays with Moore as "offensive consultant) Moore's offense was tailored to take advantage of Peyton's best talents. Moore and Indy brass tailored their drafts to bring in players like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark who were not only excellent athletes but could also read defenses and make quick, accurate sight adjustments to allow Manning to have an open receiver almost immediately. He also had Tony Dungy, a very bright guy who is also very quarterback friendly. Dungy understood the unique relationship that must exist between a HC and his quarterback.

So far, Alex Smith has had NONE of those things.

The two situations are both prototypes. Indy is about how to develop a quarterback. SF is about how to make sure a quarterback is going to have the maximum number of barriers to success.

My point was Manning managed to look good even while taking his lumps, Alex Smith still looks like s**t 6 years later, and there's no sign of that changing.

So did Kyle Orton. Check out is 1st and 3rd years starting in CHI.

I don't know what you're getting at...

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by redmanc07:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
As someone pointed out in another thread, Alex does just enough to make us lose.

Although his game wasnt as bad as some of his other performances, he was the reason why the came transitioned from winnable (17-10) to impossible (24-10).

This has been one of Alex's setbacks ever since he arrived on the scene. He just isnt capable of getting this team over the hump. As long as the overall team is playing well, Alex seems to compete. But one penalty, one defensive mishap, one dropped pass is all it takes for him to self destruct. As Madden points out, it's a quarterback's league. At some point, your leader has to overcome team mistakes and make a bad situation into a good one.

Alex, unfortunately, rarely does this.

Just signs of a bad team. Think about it how often do you see Brady or Manning put in a bad position. Not sayin Alex is anywhere near the level of those 2 but the guy needs some help and I'm not talking about out the door

Manning was in a bad position throughout his first couple of years, BUT... you could tell he was gonna be good.

You cannot compare Manning to Smith. In Manning's case, he has had Tom Moore, the same OC throughout his career. (now has a Moore protege calling plays with Moore as "offensive consultant) Moore's offense was tailored to take advantage of Peyton's best talents. Moore and Indy brass tailored their drafts to bring in players like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark who were not only excellent athletes but could also read defenses and make quick, accurate sight adjustments to allow Manning to have an open receiver almost immediately. He also had Tony Dungy, a very bright guy who is also very quarterback friendly. Dungy understood the unique relationship that must exist between a HC and his quarterback.

So far, Alex Smith has had NONE of those things.

The two situations are both prototypes. Indy is about how to develop a quarterback. SF is about how to make sure a quarterback is going to have the maximum number of barriers to success.

My point was Manning managed to look good even while taking his lumps, Alex Smith still looks like s**t 6 years later, and there's no sign of that changing.

So did Kyle Orton. Check out is 1st and 3rd years starting in CHI.

I don't know what you're getting at...

Orton had quite a few barriers from being successful but he performed solid.

Damn! Smith is making the JT O'Sullivan mistakes and many are still behind him. I don't get it. Haven't we all agreed that there should be no more excuse for him this year?

Smith is clearly a problem, but I agree with most posters that he is not the main culprit. It starts with the clueless owners to the clueless head coach then down to the underperforming players led my an inept QB. Just sad!

Originally posted by pigskin:
Damn! Smith is making the JT O'Sullivan mistakes and many are still behind him. I don't get it. Haven't we all agreed that there should be no more excuse for him this year?

Smith is clearly a problem, but I agree with most posters that he is not the main culprit. It starts with the clueless owners to the clueless head coach then down to the underperforming players led my an inept QB. Just sad!

Don't bring up the past. We don't want to learn from history and neither does our owner.

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Ya know, its amazing what can happen when you rewatch a game and alot of the tension is removed. You see things quite a bit differently. I think you end up seeing things the way fans of other teams see them.

Anyway....many things stood out.

1) The play of Alex Smith
2) The playcalling of Mike Johnson
3) The Play of Michael Crabtree
4) The problems on D.

1) Alex: This is well covered territory and I know I'm not breaking any ground here, but I watched him very closely when I watched the game again. I know this won't be popular, but he actually played pretty damn well even before the argument with Singletary.

I was on the verge of calling for the Yorks to blow the team up and waive goodbye to Alex, but now I'm not so sure.

He made 2 mistakes. One was the INT on the deep pass to Ginn. Ya, it wasn't a great pass, but those things are low % throws so I can't blame him for taking the shot we have been wanting him to take all season. It would also help if Ginn made more of an effort on the ball, but it was still not a great throw and was Alex's fault. The theres the fumble. No excuse. Horrible. He'd be the first to tell you that. That simply can't happen. Period. The final INT of the game tho was really Anthony Davis fault. If you watch, Alex makes the decision to throw the ball BEFORE the DE breaks free of Davis. Alex didn't have a chance.

Other than that tho....he looked GOOD. I mean REALLY good. If you don't believe me, watch the game again. The drives that stalled did so because of turnovers. The Niners punted only ONCE until there were 5 minutes left in the THIRD quarter. Alex was hitting passes on third down. He was hitting passes for 15 and 20 yards, so they weren't just checkdowns. He was hitting Crabtree, Ginn, Davis, Morgan, Gore....he was getting EVERYONE involved. He hit Ginn for almost 20 yards on a 3rd and ONE. He hit Davis for about 25 yards on 3rd and 15.

After the confrontation with Sing, he was even better.

Smith is everyones favorite scapegoat. To be fair he has at times made it easy to scapegoat him. Sunday tho....he played pretty damn well. If you don't believe me, watch the game again.



2) Johnson: I was reading yesterday that there were peeps here who were critical of MJs playcalling. WATCH THE GAME AGAIN. He was AGGRESSIVE. The Niners punted ONCE until 5 min left in the 3rd quarter and only punted 3 times in the entire game. One of those punts came after three consecutive incomplete passes. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the turnovers happened on a drive in which the 49ers had gotten a first down. They were moving the ball. The second Gore fumble was after back to back playes of 25 yards (pass to Davis) and 17 yards (run by Gore).

After watching this game again, I am not concerned at all about the playcalling.


3) Crabtree: Crabtree started to look like the guy who played at Texas Tech. The attribute of his game that has been missing so far is his run-after-catch ability. He showed it on some nifty plays down the sideline. He also ran a great route and made a great catch on his TD. What strikes me the most tho are the length of his arms. LOL. Serously...he looks like a freak. Watch him when he puts his arms up after scoring the TD...I swear to got he could fly with those things...lol.


4) The D: This is the one that concerns me. They to often find themselves out of position and have a reciever running through the secondary with nobody within 5-10 yards of them. Kolb looked good, but when a guy is that open, its pretty hard to miss them. The run D has also been showing some cracks of late. Some have said that WIllis may be hurt, but I don't think thats it. I think he's getting covered up by lionemen more than in the past. He hasn't been able to run free. I dunno if thats something offenses are doing or if its the D not protecting him. I just hope they fix it.

I'm also concerned about Mays. Its not that he played poorly. He just seems a step slow right now (although he caused the fumble that the Eagles recovered). Its not about his potential...I'm just not sure he was ready to play. We'll see and I hope he proves me wrong.

very well said!

Originally posted by Leathaface:
It's funny to me that people think there are glaring problems on D when the offense has turned the ball over 15 f**king times. The problems on D are a result of the offenses inability to move the ball consistently and the offenses propensity to turn the ball over.

I agree that the offense hasn't helped the defense. There have been way too many turnovers that have put the defense on a short field.

But let's not be delusional.. The Defense is far from exempt from criticism.

Pass rush is inconsistent

Allow way too many big plays in the middle of the field

Can't defend a screen or wheel route

Allow too many 3rd and long conversions

Can't come up with a STOP, with the game on the line.

Don't create enough turnovers.

Originally posted by simplyfloyd:
Great post, man.

I'll tell you this. When all the chanting was going on for carr, and I was watching alex fall apart, and then get yelled at by singletary. (I need to forwarn this...I am a youth pastor, but my personality is a coach. I teach kids how to succeed, how to do better, and I encourage them, go to their games, take them out to eat, and my kids know that I Love them and want them to succeed) So when I watch this kid failing and the whole country watching his collapse, My heart sank. I litterally had to pause the game (I had it one DVR) because I almost cried.

When he got mad, and came back. There was something so different. He was pissed. He was like, I'm going to make this happen, and I dont care who is in my way. For the first time, I became an Alex fan. Seriously. I hope this guy can turn this around, I will root for him. He can do it, I believe in him.

Mike is it you ?
That's your nickname on the zone Mike ?
Come on coach try to do it in a more subtle way

Excellent post, Marv. It's really hard to be objective when you're watching the game live. "Upon further review", it can reveal a lot you don't necessarily get the first time through. You're right, Alex is a convenient scapegoat...he deserves some of it, no doubt. But, if you look at the games again, you'll find he's running for his life way, way too often. It's hard for any QB to be consistent like that. To his credit, MJ's opening up the offense, and I'd expect to see even more of that on Sunday vs Da Raidas. Alex and Singletary came to a meeting of the minds after the Philly game...and that is he's going to let it fly...throw cautious play to the wind. There may still be some turnovers...but it should result in lot more points, too. So long as we win, I don't think most Niner fans will worry. I also agree WRT the defense...nobody ran on us last year like they're doing this season. For crying out loud, McCoy played with a cracked rib...yet he still ran through us like a hot knife through butter. Franklin was badly outplayed...and was simply pushed out of the way too often. Our secondary hasn't played that poorly, really. But, despite the front 7 getting four sacks they allowed Kolb plenty of time for the majority of the game. Any competent QB will have success in that scenario...and Kolb certainly did. I'm a lot more worried about the D than I am the offense.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by redmanc07:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
As someone pointed out in another thread, Alex does just enough to make us lose.

Although his game wasnt as bad as some of his other performances, he was the reason why the came transitioned from winnable (17-10) to impossible (24-10).

This has been one of Alex's setbacks ever since he arrived on the scene. He just isnt capable of getting this team over the hump. As long as the overall team is playing well, Alex seems to compete. But one penalty, one defensive mishap, one dropped pass is all it takes for him to self destruct. As Madden points out, it's a quarterback's league. At some point, your leader has to overcome team mistakes and make a bad situation into a good one.

Alex, unfortunately, rarely does this.

Just signs of a bad team. Think about it how often do you see Brady or Manning put in a bad position. Not sayin Alex is anywhere near the level of those 2 but the guy needs some help and I'm not talking about out the door

Manning was in a bad position throughout his first couple of years, BUT... you could tell he was gonna be good.

You cannot compare Manning to Smith. In Manning's case, he has had Tom Moore, the same OC throughout his career. (now has a Moore protege calling plays with Moore as "offensive consultant) Moore's offense was tailored to take advantage of Peyton's best talents. Moore and Indy brass tailored their drafts to bring in players like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark who were not only excellent athletes but could also read defenses and make quick, accurate sight adjustments to allow Manning to have an open receiver almost immediately. He also had Tony Dungy, a very bright guy who is also very quarterback friendly. Dungy understood the unique relationship that must exist between a HC and his quarterback.

So far, Alex Smith has had NONE of those things.

The two situations are both prototypes. Indy is about how to develop a quarterback. SF is about how to make sure a quarterback is going to have the maximum number of barriers to success.

My point was Manning managed to look good even while taking his lumps, Alex Smith still looks like s**t 6 years later, and there's no sign of that changing.

So did Kyle Orton. Check out is 1st and 3rd years starting in CHI.

I'm not getting it. Kyle Orton never had a QB rating above 80 in CHI. He went to a shotgun/spread style Offense in DEN and he's lighting it up. In fact, Alex had a better year last year than Orton ever did in CHI, and he did it with the worst OC in 9er history.

[ Edited by binary2nd on Oct 13, 2010 at 16:31:48 ]

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by redmanc07:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
As someone pointed out in another thread, Alex does just enough to make us lose.

Although his game wasnt as bad as some of his other performances, he was the reason why the came transitioned from winnable (17-10) to impossible (24-10).

This has been one of Alex's setbacks ever since he arrived on the scene. He just isnt capable of getting this team over the hump. As long as the overall team is playing well, Alex seems to compete. But one penalty, one defensive mishap, one dropped pass is all it takes for him to self destruct. As Madden points out, it's a quarterback's league. At some point, your leader has to overcome team mistakes and make a bad situation into a good one.

Alex, unfortunately, rarely does this.

Just signs of a bad team. Think about it how often do you see Brady or Manning put in a bad position. Not sayin Alex is anywhere near the level of those 2 but the guy needs some help and I'm not talking about out the door

Manning was in a bad position throughout his first couple of years, BUT... you could tell he was gonna be good.

You cannot compare Manning to Smith. In Manning's case, he has had Tom Moore, the same OC throughout his career. (now has a Moore protege calling plays with Moore as "offensive consultant) Moore's offense was tailored to take advantage of Peyton's best talents. Moore and Indy brass tailored their drafts to bring in players like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark who were not only excellent athletes but could also read defenses and make quick, accurate sight adjustments to allow Manning to have an open receiver almost immediately. He also had Tony Dungy, a very bright guy who is also very quarterback friendly. Dungy understood the unique relationship that must exist between a HC and his quarterback.

So far, Alex Smith has had NONE of those things.

The two situations are both prototypes. Indy is about how to develop a quarterback. SF is about how to make sure a quarterback is going to have the maximum number of barriers to success.

My point was Manning managed to look good even while taking his lumps, Alex Smith still looks like s**t 6 years later, and there's no sign of that changing.

So did Kyle Orton. Check out is 1st and 3rd years starting in CHI.

I'm not getting it. Kyle Orton never had a QB rating above 80 in CHI. He went to a shotgun/spread style Offense in DEN and he's lighting it up.

I think that is the point he is trying to make. ALL QB's are system players. Some get lucky and either get into systems that play to their strengths or have coaches who recognize it and adjust the system to match their strengths. If the 49ers were to switch to mostly a spread offense then we will see a completely different QB. Will that happen? probably not. Run Run Pass Punt.

Exactly...Alex can do the same thing for us. They've got to finally structure an offense that plays to his strengths, which is being mobile and getting the ball downfield. They should design some running plays for him, too...nothing that'll get him hurt, but some option plays would further help stretch the opposing defenses.