Niners Offense Still Not Changed Enough

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by djfullshred:
Things will not change until they get a better QB. That position holds them back more than anything else right now.

I wish it were that simple. Yes, Smith is a factor but he is only one in a list that is still too long.

Lack of game-breaking WR.

Lack of comprehensive offensive scheme.

Inexperience in the OL.

Lack of ability of receivers to read defenses.

Playbook that is far too limited.

ETC.

Regardless how long the list of things to work on is, a professional goes head first into addressing the toughest issues, and works his way down the list from there. I am not saying it is a simple thing too put a great NFL offense together....but even us fans at home know that a team without a very good QB has no foundation to build on. All the other skill players can't improve if the QB is not in command of the offense, running it without too many mistakes. The playbook & opportunities start opening up for all the other players when the QB is at the top of his game.

Well i gotta agree on that one, didnt really pay attention to it..

Oh wait there was one thing that got me. WE had maybe 3 or 4 plays in the game where we were 2nd and over 15, and each of those plays were for runs.

People even commented during the game, why did we run and it's 2nd and extremely long.

But other than that, pretty good observation.

Originally posted by excelsior:
dj43 strikes me as an intelligent, thoughtfull guy with good analysis. He has won me over that much of our problems with offense is still connected to subpar play from our receivers. They do not help Alex out like the GB receivers and play-calling help out Rodgers. I am not saying that Alex is on a level with the best QBs in the league, but his performance would be much better if he had more great weapons. Davis is good, but until we have similar threats with our receivers, he will be doubled and taken out of the game.

Thank you for the kind words.

As a long-time season ticket holder it is very painful to see this offense beset with so many problems. I love to watch the game and study the moves of receivers in particular. I have stated here many times that the entire Green Bay wide receiver corps is better than ANY of the 49er receivers, Michael Crabtree included. In addition, Green Bay has Mike McCarthy, one on the best offensive minds in the game. I love to watch them play. Donald Driver is just magnificent in the way he works back to get open. Greg Jennings is a burner with moves. So is James Jones. And Jermichael Finley is a WR in a tight end body. I hate to say it but right now I would take Finley over Davis from the standpoint of a pass receiver. He reads defenses well, has great agility and gets open. He is averaging 14.3 yards/rec on 21 receptions.

That is a great offense to watch not just because of Rodgers but because of the play design and sequencing, and the work of the line and wide outs in getting Rodgers time to throw and open receivers to throw to.

It is all about a package, not just a single guy.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by djfullshred:
Things will not change until they get a better QB. That position holds them back more than anything else right now.

I wish it were that simple. Yes, Smith is a factor but he is only one in a list that is still too long.

Lack of game-breaking WR.

Lack of comprehensive offensive scheme.

Inexperience in the OL.

Lack of ability of receivers to read defenses.

Playbook that is far too limited.

ETC.

dj, you are reaching here. Crabtree has shown he can "make a play" after the catch. He also is known to be explosive out of his breaks and creating separation. Morgan can go over the top and so can Vernon. Delanie has proven to be a mismatch with just about anyone.

The difference is that these guys are all expected to be a yard open to get the ball and they still don't get it because the throw has already been predetermined by Smith.

I'm not reaching on Crabtree until he starts actually making plays. He HASN'T been explosive out of his breaks, he HASN'T created separation on a consistent basis. Morgan HASN'T shown he can go up for a ball in league games. Yes, Walker and Davis are threats...for a TE but they can be taken out of the game if there is not a WR that demands coverage by the best cover safety.

Smith has made throws into tight coverage but Singletary has made it clear he doesn't want him "taking any chances." With those challenges hanging over his head, I don't think it is reasonable to assume he will achieve the level of passing efficiency this team needs.

FWIW, in the second half of yesterday's game, I told my wife that it is clear that Alex Smith is not the long-term answer...at least with the supporting team and coaching philosophy that exists here now.

I wish I could somehow convey to some posters how critically important it is to have the right components around a QB in order for them to develop and play well. Coaching is all the key and this team is still below college level in offensive scheme.

I agree with everything you've mentioned. The question then becomes, is it talent or coaching? Are receivers not getting open because they're being put in no-win scenarios? Or are they just not up to snuff?

Alex was at his best when he ran the spread offense last year, so I really don't get why they would move away from that. You have to coach the players you have! The other thing that's really frustrating is that the offense doesn't seem to play with purpose or anticipate. When Atlanta was being overwhelmed by the 49ers pass rush early, they switched to the no huddle, spread offense. I never see the 49ers offense making adjustments.

Ultimately when there are this many problems, I think it's best to just clean house and build from the ground up, again.

Some of us are trying to figure this thing out. We think there are reasons to explain things. Alex frequently played differently last year. Has something changed? Is it possible, I wonder, that he really is limited by something physical - something related to his original shoulder separation and two surgeries? If he does, the coaches are doing everything they can to hide it, but opposing DCs are figuring it out.

Originally posted by djfullshred:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by djfullshred:
Things will not change until they get a better QB. That position holds them back more than anything else right now.

I wish it were that simple. Yes, Smith is a factor but he is only one in a list that is still too long.

Lack of game-breaking WR.

Lack of comprehensive offensive scheme.

Inexperience in the OL.

Lack of ability of receivers to read defenses.

Playbook that is far too limited.

ETC.

Regardless how long the list of things to work on is, a professional goes head first into addressing the toughest issues, and works his way down the list from there. I am not saying it is a simple thing too put a great NFL offense together....but even us fans at home know that a team without a very good QB has no foundation to build on. All the other skill players can't improve if the QB is not in command of the offense, running it without too many mistakes. The playbook & opportunities start opening up for all the other players when the QB is at the top of his game.

Well dont forget about the Jets, Sanchez was a rookie and they were able to carry him to the playoffs, not the other way around. So that just goes to show if u have stated other working parts, not just thinking your good, but knowing it. And the running game and defense helped him. And no it's not an exception, like some say. It just goes to show that even with a subpar QB, if your other faces of the team are working great, it can be done.

Im still waiting for this top 5 defense to show up. With Smith, most think he's a bust anyway so thats why i didnt even talk about him. But if our main focus on offense is Gore, and the defense is the staple of our team. Then answer me why isnt Gore getting the yards, and why is our D continuing to get beat when it counts the most?

They should insert Heitman at right guard when comes back from the injuries. With Staley, Iupati, Baas, Heitman, Davis, this I think will be a very good line. Gives Smith a tic toc more to get a good look down field.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by djfullshred:
Things will not change until they get a better QB. That position holds them back more than anything else right now.

I wish it were that simple. Yes, Smith is a factor but he is only one in a list that is still too long.

Lack of game-breaking WR.

Lack of comprehensive offensive scheme.

Inexperience in the OL.

Lack of ability of receivers to read defenses.

Playbook that is far too limited.

ETC.

dj, you are reaching here. Crabtree has shown he can "make a play" after the catch. He also is known to be explosive out of his breaks and creating separation. Morgan can go over the top and so can Vernon. Delanie has proven to be a mismatch with just about anyone.

The difference is that these guys are all expected to be a yard open to get the ball and they still don't get it because the throw has already been predetermined by Smith.

I'm not reaching on Crabtree until he starts actually making plays. He HASN'T been explosive out of his breaks, he HASN'T created separation on a consistent basis. Morgan HASN'T shown he can go up for a ball in league games. Yes, Walker and Davis are threats...for a TE but they can be taken out of the game if there is not a WR that demands coverage by the best cover safety.

Smith has made throws into tight coverage but Singletary has made it clear he doesn't want him "taking any chances." With those challenges hanging over his head, I don't think it is reasonable to assume he will achieve the level of passing efficiency this team needs.

FWIW, in the second half of yesterday's game, I told my wife that it is clear that Alex Smith is not the long-term answer...at least with the supporting team and coaching philosophy that exists here now.

I wish I could somehow convey to some posters how critically important it is to have the right components around a QB in order for them to develop and play well. Coaching is all the key and this team is still below college level in offensive scheme.

Every report on Crabtree from last year and TC has been how well he makes his breaks so I don't know where you base this from. Just watching his ability after the catch and how swift he is in his cuts is evidence right there that he is explosive.

Smith has made very few throws in tight coverage. You are still ignoring the fact that most of his completions appear to be to guys who are a yard at the minimum open whereas most throws by other QBs are to receivers who are barely open. The tight throws are far and rare from one to the next.

You talk about right components in 6 years? Every commentator and analysis person has stated the amount of talent this team has now.

1. OL: check
2. WR: best WR out of the 2009 draft who snatches a ball very well and makes plays after the catch: Check
3. WR who gets the attention of 2 players on defense: Vernon Davis: check
4. RB who requires an entire defense's attention: check
5. Mismatch FB/TE/WR: check

Don't know what else you want? Wanting two top 10 receivers is asking for a lot with little production from our QB thus far.

Originally posted by djfullshred:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by djfullshred:
Things will not change until they get a better QB. That position holds them back more than anything else right now.

I wish it were that simple. Yes, Smith is a factor but he is only one in a list that is still too long.

Lack of game-breaking WR.

Lack of comprehensive offensive scheme.

Inexperience in the OL.

Lack of ability of receivers to read defenses.

Playbook that is far too limited.

ETC.

Regardless how long the list of things to work on is, a professional goes head first into addressing the toughest issues, and works his way down the list from there. I am not saying it is a simple thing too put a great NFL offense together....but even us fans at home know that a team without a very good QB has no foundation to build on. All the other skill players can't improve if the QB is not in command of the offense, running it without too many mistakes. The playbook & opportunities start opening up for all the other players when the QB is at the top of his game.

That is true but when the QB has to be near perfect in order to, then the fans at home will be disappointed. When the QB has to be near perfect to get the ball into the hands of the receivers, or anticipate which way his inexperienced receiver will read and adjust to the defense, which receiver will get that tiny bit of separation, or which OL will fail to make the correct block, or when they QB has to make the most vanilla of offensive schemes work against a sophisticated, aggressive defense, and totally make up for a defense that is playing poorly most of the time, then we are putting too much of the blame on the one guy and not enough on the other areas.

Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well i gotta agree on that one, didnt really pay attention to it..

Oh wait there was one thing that got me. WE had maybe 3 or 4 plays in the game where we were 2nd and over 15, and each of those plays were for runs.

People even commented during the game, why did we run and it's 2nd and extremely long.

But other than that, pretty good observation.

IMO it shows a lack of confidence in Smith's ability. It's time to give Carr a shot.

Just another thought, it doesn't seem like the 49ers are having much fun on the field. Other teams really look like they're enjoying themselves, whereas our offense walks out there looking not to give up the big play to the defense.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by djfullshred:
Things will not change until they get a better QB. That position holds them back more than anything else right now.

I wish it were that simple. Yes, Smith is a factor but he is only one in a list that is still too long.

Lack of game-breaking WR.

Lack of comprehensive offensive scheme.

Inexperience in the OL.

Lack of ability of receivers to read defenses.

Playbook that is far too limited.

ETC.

dj, you are reaching here. Crabtree has shown he can "make a play" after the catch. He also is known to be explosive out of his breaks and creating separation. Morgan can go over the top and so can Vernon. Delanie has proven to be a mismatch with just about anyone.

The difference is that these guys are all expected to be a yard open to get the ball and they still don't get it because the throw has already been predetermined by Smith.

I'm not reaching on Crabtree until he starts actually making plays. He HASN'T been explosive out of his breaks, he HASN'T created separation on a consistent basis. Morgan HASN'T shown he can go up for a ball in league games. Yes, Walker and Davis are threats...for a TE but they can be taken out of the game if there is not a WR that demands coverage by the best cover safety.

Smith has made throws into tight coverage but Singletary has made it clear he doesn't want him "taking any chances." With those challenges hanging over his head, I don't think it is reasonable to assume he will achieve the level of passing efficiency this team needs.

FWIW, in the second half of yesterday's game, I told my wife that it is clear that Alex Smith is not the long-term answer...at least with the supporting team and coaching philosophy that exists here now.

I wish I could somehow convey to some posters how critically important it is to have the right components around a QB in order for them to develop and play well. Coaching is all the key and this team is still below college level in offensive scheme.

Every report on Crabtree from last year and TC has been how well he makes his breaks so I don't know where you base this from. Just watching his ability after the catch and how swift he is in his cuts is evidence right there that he is explosive.

Smith has made very few throws in tight coverage. You are still ignoring the fact that most of his completions appear to be to guys who are a yard at the minimum open whereas most throws by other QBs are to receivers who are barely open. The tight throws are far and rare from one to the next.

You talk about right components in 6 years? Every commentator and analysis person has stated the amount of talent this team has now.

1. OL: check

Not even close. The rookies are still making TONS of mistakes. Baas is not the bulldozer all hoped he would be at center. Either Baas makes a lot of mistakes in adjusments or the other OL are just not hearing him because there are far too many blown assignments. Rachal, a #2 pick, has now been benched for ineffective play.

Quote:
2. WR: best WR out of the 2009 draft who snatches a ball very well and makes plays after the catch: Check

I've stated my case on him very well in the Crabtree thread.

Quote:
3. WR who gets the attention of 2 players on defense: Vernon Davis: check

He draws a linebacker and a good cover safety and there is still plenty left to cover the other two receivers.

Quote:
4. RB who requires an entire defense's attention: check

It doesn't take an entire defense to cover the space between the tackles - an offensive play calling issue.

Quote:
5. Mismatch FB/TE/WR: check

The only time a mismatch occurs is when Walker is in the game and his PT has been so erratic it is frustrating - another coaching/game plan issue.

Quote:
Don't know what else you want? Wanting two top 10 receivers is asking for a lot with little production from our QB thus far.

As I've said in other threads, many here are GROSSLY overestimating the ability of the wide receiving corp. Everyone wants to compare Smith to Rodgers - so here is my challenge to all of those making that comparison: compare the positions, player by player, and make your case for ANY 49er, including Vernon Davis, to be starting over ANY of the GB receivers in the same position.

And yes, having written that, I know everyone will say it is just about the QB, and we will be back at the starting point. For those that want to say that, go watch the GB receivers BEFORE Rodgers releases the ball and get back to me on what you have learned.

Originally posted by bzborow1:
Just another thought, it doesn't seem like the 49ers are having much fun on the field. Other teams really look like they're enjoying themselves, whereas our offense walks out there looking not to give up the big play to the defense.

Very true. I think they aren't confident with the folks leading them. There's a lot of lip service with the players supporting Sing and Smith, but when you've gone this long supporting someone or something and have yet to see any consistent positive results, it doesn't take long before the support turns into contempt.

With Singletary being caught in lies about Raye and his job security and Lewis skipping out after feeling like he was mislead which may not be Sings fault but at this point it really doesn't matter, all these things add up to 4949 Centennial Drive not being a very happy place. As you said, its time to get the broom and mop and vacuum cleaner along with the Windex and clean house. It's time. The Mike Singletary plan for the 49ers is like the 13% unemployment rate in the state of California. Its not working.

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well i gotta agree on that one, didnt really pay attention to it..

Oh wait there was one thing that got me. WE had maybe 3 or 4 plays in the game where we were 2nd and over 15, and each of those plays were for runs.

People even commented during the game, why did we run and it's 2nd and extremely long.

But other than that, pretty good observation.

IMO it shows a lack of confidence in Smith's ability. It's time to give Carr a shot.

Well nice try D, but nah dont think thats it. You cant score a TD, if they lacked confidence, you feel me. That first drive he did go 6-6 for somethin yds, and a TD. So i dont think it's confidence just the bad playcalling on those few plays.

Thanks for respondin tho:)

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
They should insert Heitman at right guard when comes back from the injuries. With Staley, Iupati, Baas, Heitman, Davis, this I think will be a very good line. Gives Smith a tic toc more to get a good look down field.

Honestly, I dont think it would matter in the passing game. Pressured or not, Smith gets rid of the ball way too soon. I think he has mental trama from the first few years of playing being a horrible line.