Cornerbacks a Weakness?

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
I would say NT

What about Balmer at NT? I know he lines up at DE. What do you guys think?

I agree with whoever said the starters are fine. I read that next year's draft is supposedly strong in corners. No idea how they determine that so soon but whatever.
I'm more worried about Smith and our WR's making some plays. It's not exactly Montana to Rice out there...It's not even Garcia to T.O.

I think the corners we have, would look much better with consistent play from the safety position.

Originally posted by Walsh:
I agree with whoever said the starters are fine. I read that next year's draft is supposedly strong in corners. No idea how they determine that so soon but whatever.
I'm more worried about Smith and our WR's making some plays. It's not exactly Montana to Rice out there...It's not even Garcia to T.O.

Its not Dorsey to Cedrick Wilson, Rattay to Lloyd or Pickett to Battle either... ugh, those were awful times. I think the OL and DT are the two major areas of concern.

Davis and Crabtree showed last year (Crabtree in a limited sample) that they can make plays. Now can Smith get them the ball? Can Smith stay verticle long enough to make plays... that will be the question.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
screw espn.com, our CB's are the least of our worries, its the OL IMO and NT.

we have 3 solid CBs in Nate, Spencer and Brown.

Then i like this Phillip Adams kid and Karl Paymah is decent.

If LeRoy Vann imnpresses than we might have a nice young CB to develop.

DBs:

Nate Clements- CB
Shawntae Spencer- CB
Tarell Brown- CB
Karl Paymah- CB
Phillip Adams or William James- CB
LeRoy Vann- CB/KR

Michael Lewis- SS
Dashon Goldson- FS
Taylor Mays- SS
Reggie Smith/Curtis Taylor- FS

And yes, i can see us carrying 10 DBs.

+1

Whether or not Clements is or is not performing well isn't the question. There are decent guys we can put out there. There is no way this compares to NT where after the starter, we have a 6th rounder and that's it.

Exactly, these are the same CB's that shut down Boldin and Fitz for 2 years in a row. Atlanta exposed our lack of speed at the position but I also think it was just a bad defensive scheme that resulted in a blowout. We held Houston and the Colts in check comparatively, (Houston's TE dominated us but thats not really the corner's fault) so we are in good shape but could definitely get better. If Mays can come along with Smith our Safety speed should increase which will help against receivers who stretch the field and take the pressure off our CB's a little.

Oh that game still makes me cry. However, I think the scheme didn't help either. Atlanta basically ran, max protect with a 2 WR route. We tried to blitz that formation and White just torched us. We really underestimated Ryan and White as a pass-receiving combo. I bet we double White this time and force Ryan to go elsewhere instead of doubling Gonzales who is at the downside of his career.

It just seemed like ATL completely gameplanned for everything we do on defense that game. (granted they had a bye week before that game) and as usual with last year, we came out unprepared, and in the 2nd half we slightly showed up.

CB's have to be a weakspot, since we were ranked in the 20's in passing yards allowed. We had quite a few games where we gave up some major yards, but other positions helped us out.

We also rank in the teens in interceptions for the season, with only 8 (bly - 3, spencer - 2, brown - 2, clements - 1) coming from the CBs. While it is too late to do anything about it now, hopefully they can at least play on par with last year, or our offense better be ready to score some serious points!

Originally posted by unst4bl3:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
screw espn.com, our CB's are the least of our worries, its the OL IMO and NT.

we have 3 solid CBs in Nate, Spencer and Brown.

Then i like this Phillip Adams kid and Karl Paymah is decent.

If LeRoy Vann imnpresses than we might have a nice young CB to develop.

DBs:

Nate Clements- CB
Shawntae Spencer- CB
Tarell Brown- CB
Karl Paymah- CB
Phillip Adams or William James- CB
LeRoy Vann- CB/KR

Michael Lewis- SS
Dashon Goldson- FS
Taylor Mays- SS
Reggie Smith/Curtis Taylor- FS

And yes, i can see us carrying 10 DBs.

+1

Whether or not Clements is or is not performing well isn't the question. There are decent guys we can put out there. There is no way this compares to NT where after the starter, we have a 6th rounder and that's it.

Exactly, these are the same CB's that shut down Boldin and Fitz for 2 years in a row. Atlanta exposed our lack of speed at the position but I also think it was just a bad defensive scheme that resulted in a blowout. We held Houston and the Colts in check comparatively, (Houston's TE dominated us but thats not really the corner's fault) so we are in good shape but could definitely get better. If Mays can come along with Smith our Safety speed should increase which will help against receivers who stretch the field and take the pressure off our CB's a little.

Oh that game still makes me cry. However, I think the scheme didn't help either. Atlanta basically ran, max protect with a 2 WR route. We tried to blitz that formation and White just torched us. We really underestimated Ryan and White as a pass-receiving combo. I bet we double White this time and force Ryan to go elsewhere instead of doubling Gonzales who is at the downside of his career.

It just seemed like ATL completely gameplanned for everything we do on defense that game. (granted they had a bye week before that game) and as usual with last year, we came out unprepared, and in the 2nd half we slightly showed up.

With a lack of consistent pass rush, our older secondary got exposed. We have always been terribly soft in the middle of the field with Lewis, Roman, even Willis, etc. Tactifully, we still played a bend but don't break a lot last year and playing 15 yards off a WR on 3rd and 5. I still don't understand that when our corners are best up at the LOS and playing physical and jamming WR's (also lends to diagnosing running plays and making plays AND running CB blitzes). Spencer and Clements are two of the more physical CB's in the league but speed is their weakness. Last year, Bly was the only reliable CB who could get us off the field on 3rd downs but we didn't sign him. As Brooks and the team pass rush-by committee increased last, we saw Goldson come into his own but Lewis remained a huge liability in coverage and we were still soft in the middle of the field. So, no Bly or Harris this year? We should be concerned esp. if can't get a consistent pass rush from Manny/Haralson this year...or if Brooks/LaBoy don't pan out and our d-line doesn't perform as well as it did last year.

I still don't feel confortable with Brown as a backup and the depth we have is a
and a big unknown at this point. Bly may not have been the physical player we wanted with the attitude Singletary liked but there is no denying he was a gamer and made plays esp. on 3rd down AND sub'ing in at CB. Without him, who can really help get us off the field on 3rd downs (a huge problem for our defense last year) and play CB if an injury occurs?

Originally posted by SJniner7:
CB's have to be a weakspot, since we were ranked in the 20's in passing yards allowed. We had quite a few games where we gave up some major yards, but other positions helped us out.

We also rank in the teens in interceptions for the season, with only 8 (bly - 3, spencer - 2, brown - 2, clements - 1) coming from the CBs. While it is too late to do anything about it now, hopefully they can at least play on par with last year, or our offense better be ready to score some serious points!

The 49ers defense ranked 21st in Passing Yardage against, but also ranked 28th in Passing Attempts against.

The Problem
Teams threw when they knew they couldn't run. The 49ers ranked 6th in the NFL in rushing yardage and 3rd in yards per attempt.

The Solution
Part of the solution has been solved in letting Mark Roman walk in free agency and allowing Reggie Smith and Curtis Taylor more reps in the nickel package. If the pass rush continues to improve, as it has over one and half seasons under Singletary, I don't foresee any glaring issues with the secondary. Certainly, they could be more athletic, but I see an continued push to draft and retain players like Taylor Mays (big, strong and athletically gifted).

As noted above, the poor passing numbers can't be sole the responsibility of the Cornerbacks. Improvements in other areas will elevate the play of the perimeter members of the defense.

Interceptions weren't a problem in 2009. The 49ers ranked 11th in the league in this regard. Also, the 49ers defense ranked first in Opponent Redzone Scoring Percentage (38.636%).

The Real Problem
In the 49ers eight wins in 2009, the defense gave up just 56 points, which averages out to exactly seven points a game. In those eight wins, the defense forced 24 turnovers, which averages out to 3 turnovers a game.

However, in the the 49ers eight losses, the defense gave up 225 points, which averages out to just over 28 points a game. In those eight losses, the defense forced just 7 turnovers, which averages out to just under 1 turnover a game.

I believe consistency on offense will ultimately make the defense better. For example, Brett Favre was able to attempt 46 passes in Week 3 while Adrian Peterson and Chester Taylor had 25 rushing attempts. On the 49ers side of the ball, Shaun Hill attempted just 25 passes and Glen Coffee and Frank Gore had 26 rushing attempts. Keeping Favre off the field by extending drives and improving time of possession may very well have won that game. As we saw in the NFC League Championship game, forcing a Quarterback to make a play with limited time left in the game can create turnovers. Shaun Hill and the 49ers Offense lost that game, not the 49ers defensive backfield.

Originally posted by NCommand:
With a lack of consistent pass rush, our older secondary got exposed.

We have always been terribly soft in the middle of the field with Lewis, Roman, even Willis, etc. Tactifully, we still played a bend but don't break a lot last year and playing 15 yards off a WR on 3rd and 5. I still don't understand that when our corners are best up at the LOS and playing physical and jamming WR's (also lends to diagnosing running plays and making plays AND running CB blitzes). Spencer and Clements are two of the more physical CB's in the league but speed is their weakness. Last year, Bly was the only reliable CB who could get us off the field on 3rd downs but we didn't sign him. As Brooks and the team pass rush-by committee increased last, we saw Goldson come into his own but Lewis remained a huge liability in coverage and we were still soft in the middle of the field. So, no Bly or Harris this year? We should be concerned esp. if can't get a consistent pass rush from Manny/Haralson this year...or if Brooks/LaBoy don't pan out and our d-line doesn't perform as well as it did last year.

I still don't feel confortable with Brown as a backup and the depth we have is a
and a big unknown at this point. Bly may not have been the physical player we wanted with the attitude Singletary liked but there is no denying he was a gamer and made plays esp. on 3rd down AND sub'ing in at CB. Without him, who can really help get us off the field on 3rd downs (a huge problem for our defense last year) and play CB if an injury occurs?

Haven't we been over this, NCommand?

Rather than rehash your perception that the 49ers lack a pass rush, I'll simply reference this post.

Also, your act is old.

Originally posted by redrathman:

Originally posted by SJniner7:
CB's have to be a weakspot, since we were ranked in the 20's in passing yards allowed. We had quite a few games where we gave up some major yards, but other positions helped us out.

We also rank in the teens in interceptions for the season, with only 8 (bly - 3, spencer - 2, brown - 2, clements - 1) coming from the CBs. While it is too late to do anything about it now, hopefully they can at least play on par with last year, or our offense better be ready to score some serious points!

The 49ers defense ranked 21st in Passing Yardage against, but also ranked 28th in Passing Attempts against.

The Problem
Teams threw when they knew they couldn't run. The 49ers ranked 6th in the NFL in rushing yardage and 3rd in yards per attempt.

The Solution
Part of the solution has been solved in letting Mark Roman walk in free agency and allowing Reggie Smith and Curtis Taylor more reps in the nickel package. If the pass rush continues to improve, as it has over one and half seasons under Singletary, I don't foresee any glaring issues with the secondary. Certainly, they could be more athletic, but I see an continued push to draft and retain players like Taylor Mays (big, strong and athletically gifted).

As noted above, the poor passing numbers can't be sole the responsibility of the Cornerbacks. Improvements in other areas will elevate the play of the perimeter members of the defense.

Interceptions weren't a problem in 2009. The 49ers ranked 11th in the league in this regard. Also, the 49ers defense ranked first in Opponent Redzone Scoring Percentage (38.636%).

The Real Problem
In the 49ers eight wins in 2009, the defense gave up just 56 points, which averages out to exactly seven points a game. In those eight wins, the defense forced 24 turnovers, which averages out to 3 turnovers a game.

However, in the the 49ers eight losses, the defense gave up 225 points, which averages out to just over 28 points a game. In those eight losses, the defense forced just 7 turnovers, which averages out to just under 1 turnover a game.

I believe consistency on offense will ultimately make the defense better. For example, Brett Favre was able to attempt 46 passes in Week 3 while Adrian Peterson and Chester Taylor had 25 rushing attempts. On the 49ers side of the ball, Shaun Hill attempted just 25 passes and Glen Coffee and Frank Gore had 26 rushing attempts. Keeping Favre off the field by extending drives and improving time of possession may very well have won that game. As we saw in the NFC League Championship game, forcing a Quarterback to make a play with limited time left in the game can create turnovers. Shaun Hill and the 49ers Offense lost that game, not the 49ers defensive backfield.

That is amazing how glaring the difference between the way the defense played in wins versus losses. I would be curious to see the style of those teams etc... I haven't looked it up, but I would bet they are teams with faster WR... and more of an agressive passing attack? Just guessing. It would also be interesting to look at the defense of those teams and see how well the 9ers Offense did... I bet there is some corralation there as well.

SO, What is the REAL SOLUTION?

Originally posted by Pick6:
That is amazing how glaring the difference between the way the defense played in wins versus losses. I would be curious to see the style of those teams etc... I haven't looked it up, but I would bet they are teams with faster WR... and more of an agressive passing attack? Just guessing. It would also be interesting to look at the defense of those teams and see how well the 9ers Offense did... I bet there is some corralation there as well.

SO, What is the REAL SOLUTION?

Each offense varied.

The Atlanta Falcons, Minnesota Vikings, Houston Texans and Green Bay Packers all have tall, strong Receivers that can run after the catch. Every other team has a mix of small, quick Receivers and possession Receivers.

Each team got out to an excellent start (aside from the Colts), outscoring the 49ers 54-30 in the 1st Quarter.

The real solution involves the utilization and successful execution of a ball control offense. This however isn't incredibly popular around fans seeking a derivative of the Spread Offense.

Originally posted by Pick6:

Originally posted by redrathman:

Originally posted by SJniner7:
CB's have to be a weakspot, since we were ranked in the 20's in passing yards allowed. We had quite a few games where we gave up some major yards, but other positions helped us out.

We also rank in the teens in interceptions for the season, with only 8 (bly - 3, spencer - 2, brown - 2, clements - 1) coming from the CBs. While it is too late to do anything about it now, hopefully they can at least play on par with last year, or our offense better be ready to score some serious points!

The 49ers defense ranked 21st in Passing Yardage against, but also ranked 28th in Passing Attempts against.

The Problem
Teams threw when they knew they couldn't run. The 49ers ranked 6th in the NFL in rushing yardage and 3rd in yards per attempt.

The Solution
Part of the solution has been solved in letting Mark Roman walk in free agency and allowing Reggie Smith and Curtis Taylor more reps in the nickel package. If the pass rush continues to improve, as it has over one and half seasons under Singletary, I don't foresee any glaring issues with the secondary. Certainly, they could be more athletic, but I see an continued push to draft and retain players like Taylor Mays (big, strong and athletically gifted).

As noted above, the poor passing numbers can't be sole the responsibility of the Cornerbacks. Improvements in other areas will elevate the play of the perimeter members of the defense.

Interceptions weren't a problem in 2009. The 49ers ranked 11th in the league in this regard. Also, the 49ers defense ranked first in Opponent Redzone Scoring Percentage (38.636%).

The Real Problem
In the 49ers eight wins in 2009, the defense gave up just 56 points, which averages out to exactly seven points a game. In those eight wins, the defense forced 24 turnovers, which averages out to 3 turnovers a game.

However, in the the 49ers eight losses, the defense gave up 225 points, which averages out to just over 28 points a game. In those eight losses, the defense forced just 7 turnovers, which averages out to just under 1 turnover a game.

I believe consistency on offense will ultimately make the defense better. For example, Brett Favre was able to attempt 46 passes in Week 3 while Adrian Peterson and Chester Taylor had 25 rushing attempts. On the 49ers side of the ball, Shaun Hill attempted just 25 passes and Glen Coffee and Frank Gore had 26 rushing attempts. Keeping Favre off the field by extending drives and improving time of possession may very well have won that game. As we saw in the NFC League Championship game, forcing a Quarterback to make a play with limited time left in the game can create turnovers. Shaun Hill and the 49ers Offense lost that game, not the 49ers defensive backfield.

That is amazing how glaring the difference between the way the defense played in wins versus losses. I would be curious to see the style of those teams etc... I haven't looked it up, but I would bet they are teams with faster WR... and more of an agressive passing attack? Just guessing. It would also be interesting to look at the defense of those teams and see how well the 9ers Offense did... I bet there is some corralation there as well.

SO, What is the REAL SOLUTION?

I agree there is a strong correlation in the offensive/defensive oppositions we faced. I agree there is a correlation between our own TOP on offense and defense. People seem to quickly blame the defensive woes on the lack of TOP by the offense. At the same time, the defense couldn't get off the field on 3rd downs and consequently, the offense had fewer opportunities to gain some momentum and game-rhythm. Granted, the defense was much further ahead of the offense so you'd expect better performance from them and much more consistency esp. on getting off the field quickly and the pass rush. That didn't happen. We were consistently below average on offense (way too predictable and easy to defend) and our defense was all-or-nothing and wildly inconsistent as noted. Pass rush is THE key to our defense. If we can generate a consistent pass rush from all 4 LB's on all 3 downs, it affords our scheme to be more aggressive and our DB's to be much more physical and aggressive. It was encouraging to see the bend-but-don't-break defense tighten up in the red zone.

Hopefully this year with a healthy Haralson, Manny being motivated by $, Brooks coming on, LaBoy added, a scheme by Manusky that could center on playing more physical with his CB's, blitzing from these spots, using Mays to blitz and play close to the LOS and utilizing the ILB's more to blitz and an offense that is more diverse and less predictable, CONSISTENCY is the answer to almost all our woes. We have the tools. We just need the coaches to be more creative and put our best 11 in the best positions to thrive and grow together as a team more consistency.

Originally posted by redrathman:

Originally posted by Pick6:
That is amazing how glaring the difference between the way the defense played in wins versus losses. I would be curious to see the style of those teams etc... I haven't looked it up, but I would bet they are teams with faster WR... and more of an agressive passing attack? Just guessing. It would also be interesting to look at the defense of those teams and see how well the 9ers Offense did... I bet there is some corralation there as well.

SO, What is the REAL SOLUTION?

Each offense varied.

The Atlanta Falcons, Minnesota Vikings, Houston Texans and Green Bay Packers all have tall, strong Receivers that can run after the catch. Every other team has a mix of small, quick Receivers and possession Receivers.

Each team got out to an excellent start (aside from the Colts), outscoring the 49ers 54-30 in the 1st Quarter.

The real solution involves the utilization and successful execution of a ball control offense. This however isn't incredibly popular around fans seeking a derivative of the Spread Offense.

This also lends itself to poor coaching schemes coming into games that did not take advantage of the oppositions waekness (running exclusively against teams we should have passed against or passing against teams we should have run on). Our ability to win road-games is very poor and well documented and we are especially poor with an extra week to prepare for teams (the reverse is the opposite for our opposition as someone noted with the Atlanta game). Manusky is still growing, it was Singletary's first full year and Raye is Raye (average at-best).

Originally posted by redrathman:

Originally posted by NCommand:
With a lack of consistent pass rush, our older secondary got exposed.

We have always been terribly soft in the middle of the field with Lewis, Roman, even Willis, etc. Tactifully, we still played a bend but don't break a lot last year and playing 15 yards off a WR on 3rd and 5. I still don't understand that when our corners are best up at the LOS and playing physical and jamming WR's (also lends to diagnosing running plays and making plays AND running CB blitzes). Spencer and Clements are two of the more physical CB's in the league but speed is their weakness. Last year, Bly was the only reliable CB who could get us off the field on 3rd downs but we didn't sign him. As Brooks and the team pass rush-by committee increased last, we saw Goldson come into his own but Lewis remained a huge liability in coverage and we were still soft in the middle of the field. So, no Bly or Harris this year? We should be concerned esp. if can't get a consistent pass rush from Manny/Haralson this year...or if Brooks/LaBoy don't pan out and our d-line doesn't perform as well as it did last year.

I still don't feel confortable with Brown as a backup and the depth we have is a
and a big unknown at this point. Bly may not have been the physical player we wanted with the attitude Singletary liked but there is no denying he was a gamer and made plays esp. on 3rd down AND sub'ing in at CB. Without him, who can really help get us off the field on 3rd downs (a huge problem for our defense last year) and play CB if an injury occurs?

Haven't we been over this, NCommand?

Rather than rehash your perception that the 49ers lack a pass rush, I'll simply reference this post.

Also, your act is old.

What's old is that we have the same problems year in/year out as evidenced by our record. Until these things are fixed, everyone's act will be old no matter how you try to spin it.

Originally posted by NCommand:
What's old is that we have the same problems year in/year out as evidenced by our record. Until these things are fixed, everyone's act will be old no matter how you try to spin it.

You mean the one and half years Singletary has been Head Coach? And the one year Jimmy Raye has been Offensive Coordinator? And the ten games Alex Smith has been Starting Quarterback?